Service a scope and solder/desolder station setting recommendations
I was working on my Atari 600xl the other day and was using the scope to see if it was working. I get a nice clean color TV signal (sorry no working NTSC TV) until I bumped the scope and it went out of sync. No amount of fiddling with the buttons and dials helped get back that pretty signal but I could see it was still there. So now I want to service the Tektronics scope but I'm not sure where to start. Next up on the top 10 list is: does anyone have pointers for solder types and temperature setting for solder and desoldering stations? I have a 30 year old Weller station that heats perfectly for older 60/40. I have a newer Hakko (?) with 2 tips (I think 700 and 800F). And I have the cheap (but working) Aoyue which is adjustable. Obviously leaving it turned up to 11 (480) is not a good idea as that will just burn it out and damage the work. Any pointers, recommendations, links ... etc? Thanks -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
Can't help you on the Tektronics scope, unfortunately. For the solder thing, it's a bit of a religion if you ask me. There are lots and lots of discussions online about it. Here are my views. Use high quality, lead based, name brand solder. Kester is awesome. RadioShack's actually used to be good, but the most recent spools I've gotten from them (while still lead based) are complete garbage. I usually hover between 300 C and 375 C on my Hakko station. Start on the low side, crank it up if you are having trouble getting a pad to heat properly (due to large ground planes, thicker traces, etc.) Keep your soldering tip clean, I highly recommend the soldering tip cleaners and the brass "brillo pad" style cleaners. Don't use a wet sponge, too much thermal shock and then delay while your iron recovers. And the brass cleaners do a REALLY nice job. You'll eventually find your preferred settings, which will vary based on the board (or even section of a board) you are working on, your style, the solder, the iron, environmental temperature, etc. There are some great videos on YouTube on teaching proper soldering technique, but you will develop your own style. Practice makes perfect. :) -Todd On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 9:19 AM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I was working on my Atari 600xl the other day and was using the scope to see if it was working. I get a nice clean color TV signal (sorry no working NTSC TV) until I bumped the scope and it went out of sync. No amount of fiddling with the buttons and dials helped get back that pretty signal but I could see it was still there.
So now I want to service the Tektronics scope but I'm not sure where to start.
Next up on the top 10 list is: does anyone have pointers for solder types and temperature setting for solder and desoldering stations?
I have a 30 year old Weller station that heats perfectly for older 60/40. I have a newer Hakko (?) with 2 tips (I think 700 and 800F). And I have the cheap (but working) Aoyue which is adjustable. Obviously leaving it turned up to 11 (480) is not a good idea as that will just burn it out and damage the work.
Any pointers, recommendations, links ... etc?
Thanks
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 01/24/2017 12:03 PM, Todd George wrote:
Can't help you on the Tektronics scope, unfortunately.
For the solder thing, it's a bit of a religion if you ask me. There are lots and lots of discussions online about it. Here are my views. Use high quality, lead based, name brand solder. Kester is awesome. RadioShack's actually used to be good, but the most recent spools I've gotten from them (while still lead based) are complete garbage.
I think I have about 3 lbs of 60/40 Kester. One is fine, the other 2 medium thickness.
I usually hover between 300 C and 375 C on my Hakko station. Start on the low side, crank it up if you are having trouble getting a pad to heat properly (due to large ground planes, thicker traces, etc.) Keep your soldering tip clean, I highly recommend the soldering tip cleaners and the brass "brillo pad" style cleaners. Don't use a wet sponge, too much thermal shock and then delay while your iron recovers. And the brass cleaners do a REALLY nice job.
Not loving the brass, I don't like to scratch the tip ... but ... I still use the sponge and your point about the thermal shock is a good point. Thanks for the range that's part of what I need.
will develop your own style. Practice makes perfect. :)
Some 40 years and it still ain't perfect (but I hope it's pretty good) ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 12:20 PM Neil Cherry <ncherry@linuxha.com> wrote:
Some 40 years and it still ain't perfect (but I hope it's pretty good) ;-)
Hahaha, whoops. I went far too beginner in that response. My bad! I've been soldering for the better part of 30 years, and I still pick up all sorts of new techniques and stuff all the time. I haven't been able to master BGA stuff though, that's an artform and a half, even with the slight investment in equipment that I've made. -Todd
On 1/24/2017 12:20 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/24/2017 12:03 PM, Todd George wrote:
Can't help you on the Tektronics scope, unfortunately.
For the solder thing, it's a bit of a religion if you ask me. There are lots and lots of discussions online about it. Here are my views. Use high quality, lead based, name brand solder. Kester is awesome. RadioShack's actually used to be good, but the most recent spools I've gotten from them (while still lead based) are complete garbage.
I think I have about 3 lbs of 60/40 Kester. One is fine, the other 2 medium thickness.
I usually hover between 300 C and 375 C on my Hakko station. Start on the low side, crank it up if you are having trouble getting a pad to heat properly (due to large ground planes, thicker traces, etc.) Keep your soldering tip clean, I highly recommend the soldering tip cleaners and the brass "brillo pad" style cleaners. Don't use a wet sponge, too much thermal shock and then delay while your iron recovers. And the brass cleaners do a REALLY nice job.
Not loving the brass, I don't like to scratch the tip ... but ... I still use the sponge and your point about the thermal shock is a good point. Thanks for the range that's part of what I need.
I'll +1 the brass cleaner, it has worked REALLY well for me for several years. Perhaps they are not good for precise and costly soldering equipment. But I have cheap Velleman VTSS5 irons, and use them for non precise (thru hole) work. I haven't noticed scratches on the tips and the longevity is better than when I used sponges. The brillo is ever ready, compared to remembering to wet the sponges before starring, and impregnated with rosin they clean really well with a couple of dabs into the material. (And nobody here would ever clean their tip on a dry sponge cause they forgot to wet it, right? :O )
will develop your own style. Practice makes perfect. :)
Some 40 years and it still ain't perfect (but I hope it's pretty good) ;-)
On 01/24/2017 12:20 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Not loving the brass, I don't like to scratch the tip ... but ... I still use the sponge and your point about the thermal shock is a good point. Thanks for the range that's part of what I need.
The alloys involved aren't much affected by thermal shock. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 01/24/2017 11:53 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/24/2017 12:20 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Not loving the brass, I don't like to scratch the tip ... but ... I still use the sponge and your point about the thermal shock is a good point. Thanks for the range that's part of what I need.
The alloys involved aren't much affected by thermal shock.
I was considering recovery time. The only problem my older soldering iron has a problem with is a large ground trace. I do 2 things, I first wet the tip with solder, then apply it to the area and then wait for a reaction before working the area. Sometimes I'll also swirl the tip around the work area to get a larger heated area before I work it. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 1/24/2017 12:03 PM, Todd George via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Can't help you on the Tektronics scope, unfortunately.
For the solder thing, it's a bit of a religion if you ask me. There are lots and lots of discussions online about it. Here are my views. Use high quality, lead based, name brand solder. Kester is awesome. RadioShack's actually used to be good, but the most recent spools I've gotten from them (while still lead based) are complete garbage.
I usually hover between 300 C and 375 C on my Hakko station. Start on the In this country we use Fahrenheit, mister. Don't u forget it. :(=) low side, crank it up if you are having trouble getting a pad to heat properly (due to large ground planes, thicker traces, etc.) Keep your soldering tip clean, I highly recommend the soldering tip cleaners and the brass "brillo pad" style cleaners. Don't use a wet sponge, too much thermal shock and then delay while your iron recovers. And the brass cleaners do a REALLY nice job.
You'll eventually find your preferred settings, which will vary based on the board (or even section of a board) you are working on, your style, the solder, the iron, environmental temperature, etc.
There are some great videos on YouTube on teaching proper soldering technique, but you will develop your own style. Practice makes perfect. :)
-Todd
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 9:19 AM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/24/2017 12:03 PM, Todd George via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Keep your soldering tip clean, I highly recommend the soldering tip cleaners and the brass "brillo pad" style cleaners. Don't use a wet sponge, too much thermal shock and then delay while your iron recovers. And the brass cleaners do a REALLY nice job.
Be careful here; this is highly iron-dependent advice. The brass cleaners destroy the plating on some types of tips after extended use, and a good iron will have zero recovery time with a wet sponge, or at least less time than it takes to move it back from the sponge to the board. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 01/24/2017 11:52 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/24/2017 12:03 PM, Todd George via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Keep your soldering tip clean, I highly recommend the soldering tip cleaners and the brass "brillo pad" style cleaners. Don't use a wet sponge, too much thermal shock and then delay while your iron recovers. And the brass cleaners do a REALLY nice job.
Be careful here; this is highly iron-dependent advice. The brass cleaners destroy the plating on some types of tips after extended use, and a good iron will have zero recovery time with a wet sponge, or at least less time than it takes to move it back from the sponge to the board.
Thanks Dave, I'll stick to my sponge for most things. I usually do a quick inspection of the tip after each clean. The older Weller is still the tip from 30 years ago. :-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
So sandpaper is bad? On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On 01/24/2017 11:52 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/24/2017 12:03 PM, Todd George via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Keep your soldering tip clean, I highly recommend the soldering tip cleaners and the brass "brillo pad" style cleaners. Don't use a wet sponge, too much thermal shock and then delay while your iron recovers. And the brass cleaners do a REALLY nice job.
Be careful here; this is highly iron-dependent advice. The brass cleaners destroy the plating on some types of tips after extended use, and a good iron will have zero recovery time with a wet sponge, or at least less time than it takes to move it back from the sponge to the board.
Thanks Dave, I'll stick to my sponge for most things. I usually do a quick inspection of the tip after each clean. The older Weller is still the tip from 30 years ago. :-)
-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 01/25/2017 09:07 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
So sandpaper is bad?
You're not even allowed to look at my equipment ! ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 01/25/2017 09:27 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/25/2017 09:07 AM, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
So sandpaper is bad?
You're not even allowed to look at my equipment ! ;-)
Perhaps a better choice of words would have help but too late now ... ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 1/25/2017 9:01 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/24/2017 11:52 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/24/2017 12:03 PM, Todd George via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Keep your soldering tip clean, I highly recommend the soldering tip cleaners and the brass "brillo pad" style cleaners. Don't use a wet sponge, too much thermal shock and then delay while your iron recovers. And the brass cleaners do a REALLY nice job.
Be careful here; this is highly iron-dependent advice. The brass cleaners destroy the plating on some types of tips after extended use, and a good iron will have zero recovery time with a wet sponge, or at least less time than it takes to move it back from the sponge to the board.
Thanks Dave, I'll stick to my sponge for most things. I usually do a quick inspection of the tip after each clean. The older Weller is still the tip from 30 years ago. :-)
30 years ago? ! That's impressive, a whole different league.
On 01/25/2017 10:09 AM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 1/25/2017 9:01 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/24/2017 11:52 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/24/2017 12:03 PM, Todd George via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Keep your soldering tip clean, I highly recommend the soldering tip cleaners and the brass "brillo pad" style cleaners. Don't use a wet sponge, too much thermal shock and then delay while your iron recovers. And the brass cleaners do a REALLY nice job.
Be careful here; this is highly iron-dependent advice. The brass cleaners destroy the plating on some types of tips after extended use, and a good iron will have zero recovery time with a wet sponge, or at least less time than it takes to move it back from the sponge to the board.
Thanks Dave, I'll stick to my sponge for most things. I usually do a quick inspection of the tip after each clean. The older Weller is still the tip from 30 years ago. :-)
30 years ago? ! That's impressive, a whole different league.
It came with a near perfect long pointy tip. Never liked that one so I purchased a new (30 years ago) small chisel tip. The pointy tip is in better condition as I never use it. :-) And yes I'm very picky about my tools. I may not be perfectly neat but I do take care of my 'professional' tools. I've had fits (probably a bit dramatic) on programmers who have played with the tools. Especially if they use the soldering iron to burn holes in things. Grrrrr ! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 1/25/2017 10:28 AM, Neil Cherry wrote:
On 01/25/2017 10:09 AM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 1/25/2017 9:01 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/24/2017 11:52 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 01/24/2017 12:03 PM, Todd George via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Keep your soldering tip clean, I highly recommend the soldering tip cleaners and the brass "brillo pad" style cleaners. Don't use a wet sponge, too much thermal shock and then delay while your iron recovers. And the brass cleaners do a REALLY nice job.
Be careful here; this is highly iron-dependent advice. The brass cleaners destroy the plating on some types of tips after extended use, and a good iron will have zero recovery time with a wet sponge, or at least less time than it takes to move it back from the sponge to the board.
Thanks Dave, I'll stick to my sponge for most things. I usually do a quick inspection of the tip after each clean. The older Weller is still the tip from 30 years ago. :-)
30 years ago? ! That's impressive, a whole different league.
It came with a near perfect long pointy tip. Never liked that one so I purchased a new (30 years ago) small chisel tip. The pointy tip is in better condition as I never use it. :-)
And yes I'm very picky about my tools. I may not be perfectly neat but I do take care of my 'professional' tools. I've had fits (probably a bit dramatic) on programmers who have played with the tools. Especially if they use the soldering iron to burn holes in things. Grrrrr !
if (iron_holder==programmer) { take away soldering iron; } // nothing but trouble.
And yes I'm very picky about my tools. I may not be perfectly neat but I do take care of my 'professional' tools. I've had fits (probably a bit dramatic) on programmers who have played with the tools. Especially if they use the soldering iron to burn holes in things. Grrrrr !
if (iron_holder==programmer) { take away soldering iron; } // nothing but trouble.
The pointy end is good for removing ear wax. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)3 educational non-profit evan@vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation
On 01/25/2017 11:07 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
And yes I'm very picky about my tools. I may not be perfectly neat but I do take care of my 'professional' tools. I've had fits (probably a bit dramatic) on programmers who have played with the tools. Especially if they use the soldering iron to burn holes in things. Grrrrr !
if (iron_holder==programmer) { take away soldering iron; } // nothing but trouble.
The pointy end is good for removing ear wax.
Doc said nothing but spade tips for dealing with ear was resin. ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 09:18:29AM -0500, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I get a nice clean color TV signal (sorry no working NTSC TV) until I bumped the scope and it went out of sync. No amount of fiddling with the buttons and dials helped get back that pretty signal but I could see it was still there.
So now I want to service the Tektronics scope but I'm not sure where to start.
The first is determining what as really failed. Start with a simple signal such as calibrate output/square/sine wave and does it trigger properly with that? Were you using special TV trigger mode or just normal edge trigger. Once you narrow down the failure symptom and find service manual for the scope that will give you where to start looking. There are Tek lists around with people familiar with them that may know the common problems for the symptom.
On 01/24/2017 12:43 PM, David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 09:18:29AM -0500, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I get a nice clean color TV signal (sorry no working NTSC TV) until I bumped the scope and it went out of sync. No amount of fiddling with the buttons and dials helped get back that pretty signal but I could see it was still there.
So now I want to service the Tektronics scope but I'm not sure where to start.
The first is determining what as really failed. Start with a simple signal such as calibrate output/square/sine wave and does it trigger properly with that? Were you using special TV trigger mode or just normal edge trigger. Once you narrow down the failure symptom and find service manual for the scope that will give you where to start looking.
Good point! I think I have a signal generator at IXR so let me start there. Thanks -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I think I have a signal generator at IXR so let me start there.
Speaking of which, VCFed owns a few scopes, and it would be very helpful if someone could spend an hour or two testing them all at the February workshop.
Hopefully I can make it to help. But also dig up probes and related items, you'll need these too. Try to find everything that went with each scope, sort it all out before the workshop if possible.
On 01/24/2017 01:36 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
I think I have a signal generator at IXR so let me start there.
Speaking of which, VCFed owns a few scopes, and it would be very helpful if someone could spend an hour or two testing them all at the February workshop.
Hopefully I can make it to help. But also dig up probes and related items, you'll need these too. Try to find everything that went with each scope, sort it all out before the workshop if possible.
I don't think we have many probes with the scopes. We may have 1 or 2 x10 probes. I have a lot of probes (someone tossed them in the trash (not at Infoage). I hope to be there at the next workshop. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
participants (8)
-
Chris Fala -
Dave McGuire -
David Gesswein -
Douglas Crawford -
Evan Koblentz -
Neil Cherry -
Todd George -
william degnan