VCF Bumper to videos
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think? https://youtu.be/3c0F9bENQW4 Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds? Take care! Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable. On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable.
This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas. Jeff
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
I love the history of this. I think the history of the bumper should be mentioned in a short paragraph attached to each video in which it is used. Bill Dudley This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 12:41 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable.
This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk
Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk
We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas.
Jeff
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 10:03 AM William Dudley <wfdudley@gmail.com> wrote:
I love the history of this. I think the history of the bumper should be mentioned in a short paragraph attached to each video in which it is used.
I was at first going to do a contest to see if people could guess, but I may still ask people to guess. Then put all the info there.
Bill Dudley This email is free of malware because I run Linux.
On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 12:41 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable.
This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk
Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk
We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas.
Jeff
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What
does
everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
I'm not a fan of the use of it here in this case for the general public.
but played backwards and tweaked Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! WHY? Just to make it completely obscured?
The sung melody might be OK or at least be recognizable. The IBM computer sang the song. (which interestingly sounds amazing like the SAM voice famously on the C64 and other platforms.) But I wouldn't want to suffer through it every bumper play. On 5/1/2024 12:40 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable.
This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk
Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk
We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas.
Jeff
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
I agree, Doug. You make a lot of good points. On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 2:21 PM Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of it here in this case for the general public.
but played backwards and tweaked Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! WHY? Just to make it completely obscured?
The sung melody might be OK or at least be recognizable. The IBM computer sang the song. (which interestingly sounds amazing like the SAM voice famously on the C64 and other platforms.) But I wouldn't want to suffer through it every bumper play.
On 5/1/2024 12:40 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable.
This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk
Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk
We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas.
Jeff
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
I disagree. First, it's just 7 seconds of the music, 2 seconds of the typing noise. How does the general public factor into your assessment? Do you mean that people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Just wondering and hoping for more words about that statement. I think the sound is short, interesting, and sparse enough to be excellent soundscape for the bumper. If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions? -andy
On May 1, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of it here in this case for the general public.
but played backwards and tweaked Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! WHY? Just to make it completely obscured?
The sung melody might be OK or at least be recognizable. The IBM computer sang the song. (which interestingly sounds amazing like the SAM voice famously on the C64 and other platforms.) But I wouldn't want to suffer through it every bumper play.
On 5/1/2024 12:40 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable.
This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas. Jeff
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
I'm only talking about the music. The graphic and clicks are fine! Why is the music no good:
people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Yes. If they don't recognize it, its a waste of their attention. Why play a trick on them with something? played backwards?
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions? The clip is OK, just drop that nonsense "music". It is already and obscure reference, and playing it backwards is aweful. The notes of the song are actually not recognizable, but the melody sung is. This uses the otherwise unrecognizable musical notes of the song and reverses them too. Its a cruel joke.
On 5/1/2024 2:55 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
I disagree. First, it's just 7 seconds of the music, 2 seconds of the typing noise.
How does the general public factor into your assessment? Do you mean that people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Just wondering and hoping for more words about that statement.
I think the sound is short, interesting, and sparse enough to be excellent soundscape for the bumper.
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions?
-andy
On May 1, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of it here in this case for the general public.
but played backwards and tweaked Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! WHY? Just to make it completely obscured?
The sung melody might be OK or at least be recognizable. The IBM computer sang the song. (which interestingly sounds amazing like the SAM voice famously on the C64 and other platforms.) But I wouldn't want to suffer through it every bumper play.
On 5/1/2024 12:40 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable.
This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas. Jeff
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
OK thanks for the additional info. One thing on 'recognizability' - that is a slippery slope. If it's not in the public domain Google will 'recognize it' also and flag the video... Normally you grab some free MP3 and play them- they are all 100% unrecognizable. -andy
On May 1, 2024, at 3:07 PM, Douglas Crawford <touchetek@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm only talking about the music. The graphic and clicks are fine!
Why is the music no good:
people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Yes. If they don't recognize it, its a waste of their attention. Why play a trick on them with something? played backwards?
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions? The clip is OK, just drop that nonsense "music". It is already and obscure reference, and playing it backwards is aweful. The notes of the song are actually not recognizable, but the melody sung is. This uses the otherwise unrecognizable musical notes of the song and reverses them too. Its a cruel joke.
On 5/1/2024 2:55 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
I disagree. First, it's just 7 seconds of the music, 2 seconds of the typing noise. How does the general public factor into your assessment? Do you mean that people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Just wondering and hoping for more words about that statement. I think the sound is short, interesting, and sparse enough to be excellent soundscape for the bumper. If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions? -andy
On May 1, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of it here in this case for the general public.
but played backwards and tweaked Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! WHY? Just to make it completely obscured?
The sung melody might be OK or at least be recognizable. The IBM computer sang the song. (which interestingly sounds amazing like the SAM voice famously on the C64 and other platforms.) But I wouldn't want to suffer through it every bumper play.
On 5/1/2024 12:40 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable.
This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas. Jeff
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 3:07 PM Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm only talking about the music. The graphic and clicks are fine!
Why is the music no good:
people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Yes. If they don't recognize it, its a waste of their attention. Why play a trick on them with something? played backwards?
The author didn’t intend to trick people, only to make it “more upbeat”. I would argue that it doesn’t have to be recognizable. Look at other YouTube bumpers. They are original and not copied from another author. In this case since it is from 1892, then I would say it is in the public domain. I think the goal is to make it a fun, appealing, unique tune that can be associated with VCF. I feel that it better to have something than nothing. I’m open to suggestions or offers of a composer creating a new one that is royalty free.
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions? The clip is OK, just drop that nonsense "music". It is already and obscure reference, and playing it backwards is aweful. The notes of the song are actually not recognizable, but the melody sung is. This uses the otherwise unrecognizable musical notes of the song and reverses them too. Its a cruel joke.
On 5/1/2024 2:55 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
I disagree. First, it's just 7 seconds of the music, 2 seconds of the typing noise.
How does the general public factor into your assessment? Do you mean that people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Just wondering and hoping for more words about that statement.
I think the sound is short, interesting, and sparse enough to be excellent soundscape for the bumper.
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions?
-andy
On May 1, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of it here in this case for the general public.
but played backwards and tweaked Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! WHY? Just to make it completely obscured?
The sung melody might be OK or at least be recognizable. The IBM computer sang the song. (which interestingly sounds amazing like the SAM voice famously on the C64 and other platforms.) But I wouldn't want to suffer through it every bumper play.
On 5/1/2024 12:40 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable.
This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas. Jeff
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What
does
everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity <https://www.google.com/maps/search/ter+Federation+is+a+501c3+charity?entry=gmail&source=g> https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
On 5/1/2024 2:32 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The author didn’t intend to trick people, only to make it “more upbeat”.
Obviously, the author no doubt provided the content gratis, so I assume there's limited opportunity to ask for more. That said, if there were options, I'd be interested in the non reversed song, pitched to be more upbeat. I don't know that I have a poor reaction to the bumper, but I think there are a ton of people who know the first few bars of Bicycle Built for Two from 2001, and making it instantly recognizable (or at least recognizeable once people know the backstory) is educational. Reversed doesn't offer that same additional benefit. I agree the tune is public domain and I'd argue even the 7094 recitation of it should be. Even if not, using a few bars can be claimed under fair use. I offer the points above as my only ability to contribute. I'm not graphical, creative, or musical, so my hat is off to the original author for even offering this option. Jim
On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 3:40 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 5/1/2024 2:32 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The author didn’t intend to trick people, only to make it “more upbeat”.
Obviously, the author no doubt provided the content gratis, so I assume there's limited opportunity to ask for more.
Yes the author did this gratis. I can’t ask for too much as he has already put in time to create this.
That said, if there were options, I'd be interested in the non reversed song, pitched to be more upbeat.
What I don’t know is if the author is a musician. A good idea to try non reversed and more upbeat. Let me consider options for finding a musician willing to create an upbeat version of Daisy Bell.
I don't know that I have a poor reaction to the bumper, but I think there are a ton of people who know the first few bars of Bicycle Built for Two from 2001, and making it instantly recognizable (or at least recognizeable once people know the backstory) is educational. Reversed doesn't offer that same additional benefit.
I agree the tune is public domain and I'd argue even the 7094 recitation of it should be. Even if not, using a few bars can be claimed under fair use.
I offer the points above as my only ability to contribute. I'm not graphical, creative, or musical, so my hat is off to the original author for even offering this option.
Jim
Regardless, it's a masterpiece, and the velociraptors are quite amused. On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 9:00 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 3:40 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 5/1/2024 2:32 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
The author didn’t intend to trick people, only to make it “more upbeat”.
Obviously, the author no doubt provided the content gratis, so I assume there's limited opportunity to ask for more.
Yes the author did this gratis. I can’t ask for too much as he has already put in time to create this.
That said, if there were options, I'd be interested in the non reversed song, pitched to be more upbeat.
What I don’t know is if the author is a musician. A good idea to try non reversed and more upbeat. Let me consider options for finding a musician willing to create an upbeat version of Daisy Bell.
I don't know that I have a poor reaction to the bumper, but I think there are a ton of people who know the first few bars of Bicycle Built for Two from 2001, and making it instantly recognizable (or at least recognizeable once people know the backstory) is educational. Reversed doesn't offer that same additional benefit.
I agree the tune is public domain and I'd argue even the 7094 recitation of it should be. Even if not, using a few bars can be claimed under fair use.
I offer the points above as my only ability to contribute. I'm not graphical, creative, or musical, so my hat is off to the original author for even offering this option.
Jim
OK, but you justified this as being based on something of historical significance, then reverse it into something that isn't even musical. That's a bad idea. Yes others use original music. But it is MUSICAL. A reverse of a on old melody is probably not even musical. I recommend no music for this bumper. If we ever make something like a real introduction to a show, like (to reference something concrete) Usagi does, then we make a musical production for us like Usagi did. This bumper is hardly an introduction piece. Its a curiosity; a moving logo. It needs no music. On 5/1/2024 3:32 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 3:07 PM Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm only talking about the music. The graphic and clicks are fine!
Why is the music no good:
people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Yes. If they don't recognize it, its a waste of their attention. Why play a trick on them with something? played backwards?
The author didn’t intend to trick people, only to make it “more upbeat”.
I would argue that it doesn’t have to be recognizable. Look at other YouTube bumpers. They are original and not copied from another author.
In this case since it is from 1892, then I would say it is in the public domain.
I think the goal is to make it a fun, appealing, unique tune that can be associated with VCF. I feel that it better to have something than nothing.
I’m open to suggestions or offers of a composer creating a new one that is royalty free.
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions? The clip is OK, just drop that nonsense "music". It is already and obscure reference, and playing it backwards is aweful. The notes of the song are actually not recognizable, but the melody sung is. This uses the otherwise unrecognizable musical notes of the song and reverses them too. Its a cruel joke.
On 5/1/2024 2:55 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
I disagree. First, it's just 7 seconds of the music, 2 seconds of the typing noise.
How does the general public factor into your assessment? Do you mean that people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Just wondering and hoping for more words about that statement.
I think the sound is short, interesting, and sparse enough to be excellent soundscape for the bumper.
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions?
-andy
On May 1, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of it here in this case for the general public.
but played backwards and tweaked Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! WHY? Just to make it completely obscured?
The sung melody might be OK or at least be recognizable. The IBM computer sang the song. (which interestingly sounds amazing like the SAM voice famously on the C64 and other platforms.) But I wouldn't want to suffer through it every bumper play.
On 5/1/2024 12:40 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... uncomfortable.
This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas. Jeff
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
> We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What
does
> everyone think? > > https://youtu.be/3c0F9bENQW4 > > Can anyone identify: > 1) The computer starting up > 2) The song > 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds? > > Take care! > > Jeff Brace > VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President > Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner > VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager > Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity <https://www.google.com/maps/search/ter+Federation+is+a+501c3+charity?entry=gmail&source=g> > https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> > jeffrey@vcfed.org >
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
REALLY All all of this hubbub over 10 seconds of video and sound? Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
On May 1, 2024, at 4:23 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
OK, but you justified this as being based on something of historical significance, then reverse it into something that isn't even musical. That's a bad idea.
Yes others use original music. But it is MUSICAL. A reverse of a on old melody is probably not even musical. I recommend no music for this bumper. If we ever make something like a real introduction to a show, like (to reference something concrete) Usagi does, then we make a musical production for us like Usagi did.
This bumper is hardly an introduction piece. Its a curiosity; a moving logo. It needs no music.
On 5/1/2024 3:32 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 3:07 PM Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: I'm only talking about the music. The graphic and clicks are fine!
Why is the music no good:
people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Yes. If they don't recognize it, its a waste of their attention. Why play a trick on them with something? played backwards? The author didn’t intend to trick people, only to make it “more upbeat”. I would argue that it doesn’t have to be recognizable. Look at other YouTube bumpers. They are original and not copied from another author. In this case since it is from 1892, then I would say it is in the public domain. I think the goal is to make it a fun, appealing, unique tune that can be associated with VCF. I feel that it better to have something than nothing. I’m open to suggestions or offers of a composer creating a new one that is royalty free.
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions? The clip is OK, just drop that nonsense "music". It is already and obscure reference, and playing it backwards is aweful. The notes of the song are actually not recognizable, but the melody sung is. This uses the otherwise unrecognizable musical notes of the song and reverses them too. Its a cruel joke.
On 5/1/2024 2:55 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
I disagree. First, it's just 7 seconds of the music, 2 seconds of the typing noise.
How does the general public factor into your assessment? Do you mean that people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Just wondering and hoping for more words about that statement.
I think the sound is short, interesting, and sparse enough to be excellent soundscape for the bumper.
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions?
-andy
On May 1, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of it here in this case for the general public.
but played backwards and tweaked Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! WHY? Just to make it completely obscured?
The sung melody might be OK or at least be recognizable. The IBM computer sang the song. (which interestingly sounds amazing like the SAM voice famously on the C64 and other platforms.) But I wouldn't want to suffer through it every bumper play.
On 5/1/2024 12:40 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the > typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... > uncomfortable. > This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like it. We're open to other ideas. Jeff > > > On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does >> everyone think? >> >> https://youtu.be/3c0F9bENQW4 >> >> Can anyone identify: >> 1) The computer starting up >> 2) The song >> 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds? >> >> Take care! >> >> Jeff Brace >> VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President >> Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner >> VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager >> Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity <https://www.google.com/maps/search/ter+Federation+is+a+501c3+charity?entry=gmail&source=g> >> https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> >> jeffrey@vcfed.org >> >
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
we'll take it offline. Branding is important. On 5/1/2024 6:11 PM, Sentrytv wrote:
REALLY All all of this hubbub over 10 seconds of video and sound?
Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
On May 1, 2024, at 4:23 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
OK, but you justified this as being based on something of historical significance, then reverse it into something that isn't even musical. That's a bad idea.
Yes others use original music. But it is MUSICAL. A reverse of a on old melody is probably not even musical. I recommend no music for this bumper. If we ever make something like a real introduction to a show, like (to reference something concrete) Usagi does, then we make a musical production for us like Usagi did.
This bumper is hardly an introduction piece. Its a curiosity; a moving logo. It needs no music.
On 5/1/2024 3:32 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 3:07 PM Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: I'm only talking about the music. The graphic and clicks are fine!
Why is the music no good:
people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Yes. If they don't recognize it, its a waste of their attention. Why play a trick on them with something? played backwards? The author didn’t intend to trick people, only to make it “more upbeat”. I would argue that it doesn’t have to be recognizable. Look at other YouTube bumpers. They are original and not copied from another author. In this case since it is from 1892, then I would say it is in the public domain. I think the goal is to make it a fun, appealing, unique tune that can be associated with VCF. I feel that it better to have something than nothing. I’m open to suggestions or offers of a composer creating a new one that is royalty free.
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions? The clip is OK, just drop that nonsense "music". It is already and obscure reference, and playing it backwards is aweful. The notes of the song are actually not recognizable, but the melody sung is. This uses the otherwise unrecognizable musical notes of the song and reverses them too. Its a cruel joke.
On 5/1/2024 2:55 PM, Andrew Diller wrote:
I disagree. First, it's just 7 seconds of the music, 2 seconds of the typing noise.
How does the general public factor into your assessment? Do you mean that people wouldn't like it cause they cannot recognize it? Just wondering and hoping for more words about that statement.
I think the sound is short, interesting, and sparse enough to be excellent soundscape for the bumper.
If you don't like that 7 second clip what are other suggestions?
-andy
On May 1, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Douglas Crawford via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
I'm not a fan of the use of it here in this case for the general public.
> but played backwards and tweaked Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! WHY? Just to make it completely obscured?
The sung melody might be OK or at least be recognizable. The IBM computer sang the song. (which interestingly sounds amazing like the SAM voice famously on the C64 and other platforms.) But I wouldn't want to suffer through it every bumper play.
On 5/1/2024 12:40 AM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:11 PM Bob Flanders via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> I think it would be enough to have the logo appear without letters then the >> typing. it's fun the first time, but after a few vids it would get ... >> uncomfortable. >> > This tune in this bumper was a "Daisy Bell" from 1892 by Harry Dacre. It > was the first singing song on an IBM 7094, but played backwards and tweaked > with the tone so it sounded more upbeat. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk > Full story on this song is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_vDpMz7IZk > We thought it was very historical, but it seems that some people don't like > it. We're open to other ideas. > Jeff >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < >> vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> >>> We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does >>> everyone think? >>> >>> https://youtu.be/3c0F9bENQW4 >>> >>> Can anyone identify: >>> 1) The computer starting up >>> 2) The song >>> 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds? >>> >>> Take care! >>> >>> Jeff Brace >>> VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President >>> Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner >>> VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager >>> Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity <https://www.google.com/maps/search/ter+Federation+is+a+501c3+charity?entry=gmail&source=g> >>> https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> >>> jeffrey@vcfed.org >>> >>
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
-- Douglas Crawford VCF Mid-Atlantic Museum Mgr InfoAge Science & History Museums 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719
Not mine: FREE Vintage 1979 Computer Fans from Bell Labs Project (RED BANK) https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/zip/d/red-bank-free-vintage-1979-computer...
I like it! On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
It's cool. I can't identify anything, however I think the keyboard is a IBM PC On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 11:02 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
We had a volunteer create a bumper for our future VCF videos. What does everyone think?
Can anyone identify: 1) The computer starting up 2) The song 3) The keyboard making the clicking sounds?
Take care!
Jeff Brace VCF National Board Member Chairman & Vice President Vintage Computer Festival East Showrunner VCF Mid-Atlantic Event Manager Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity https://vcfed.org/ <http://www.vcfed.org/> jeffrey@vcfed.org
participants (11)
-
Andrew Diller -
Bart Hirst -
Bob Flanders -
Chris Fala -
Christian Liendo -
Dean Notarnicola -
Douglas Crawford -
Jeffrey Brace -
RETRO Innovations -
Sentrytv -
William Dudley