Converting C64 from NTSC to PAL was: PAL C-64 on 1084-S?
Changing the subject line to more accurately reflect the discussion. I solved my problem. It was a lot simpler than what the discussion indicated. I reason my C64 didn't work after my changes was that I had put the VIC-II chip in wrong. Two pins were sticking out.
From looking at the discussion it was apparent that it follows the old story of the 6 blind men and the elephant. Every was looking at a different part and was right, but didn't see the big picture and never really had any specific experience doing what I wanted to do (i.e. no one had actually done it!). For the last few years I asked different people questions, and didn't get anywhere. I realized that none of them had actually converted a C64 and were guessing. So I decided to look up the information myself and just do it. I thought that the simplest way was to just buy a PAL C64 and ship it here, but I ended up getting NTSC C64 because the guy had no idea what he was selling. I shipped it back and found an easier way by ordering the parts.
I knew that there was an article from years ago that described what to do, but I had lost it. So I looked up a YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq2tlEr6_Ns&t=609s And looked at this article: http://biosrhythm.com/?p=1420 So I bought the proper PAL VIC-II chip, the proper crystal, and a piece of wire. I replaced the VIC-II chip: 6567 (NTSC) with 6569 (PAL), then the crystal 14 Mhz Crystal (NTSC) with the 17 Mhz (PAL), then found the part on the motherboard where I put a piece of wire to create a short. DONE! There was no need for step down converters, different power supplies or special monitors. The Samsung SyncMaster XL2370HD worked fine. I just had made a mistake when I inserted the VIC-II chip. Noticed it today, fixed it, and ran the demo. Now it seems that the demos want to run from a 1541 and not a 1571 or uIEC SD card unfortunately, so I have to go vintage. Also I used this video to VGA converter to send the signal from the C64 to the monitor: https://www.real.de/product/314543066/ If anyone wants help to convert it, I can help you. You need to match the proper VIC-II equivalent, there are three major versions of VIC-II chips, so that has to match because of the motherboard configuration. Now I have to find a particular type of audio cable RCA to headphone jack to get the audio working. Still have some other stuff to get ready for Maker Faire. -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President Vintage Computer Federation
On 9/19/2018 6:28 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
For the last few years I asked different people questions, and didn't get anywhere. I realized that none of them had actually converted a C64 and were guessing.
It's a bummer I didn't know you were wondering. I converted such a unit years back (in the late 1990's), using the steps you mention (VIC-II, Xtal, and wire). For reference, it is important to note that this simple changes *ONLY* works on the C64 and C128 machines (and variants, like the 64C and C128D, etc.) The C64 and 128 use some code in the KERNAL to detect 50 or 60 Hz operation and select the correct operation. Notably, the 264 line (*C116/C16/+4) and the VIC-20 (and variants) do not perform the same checks and thus have two different ROM sets for the different regions. So, if you do the conversion on one of those machines, you need to get a new ROM as well.
Now it seems that the demos want to run from a 1541 and not a 1571 or uIEC SD card unfortunately, so I have to go vintage.
This sounds like an issue. There is no PAL/NTSC issues surrounding the IEC bus on the 64. I would be interested in what is going on here. Jim
On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 7:29 PM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Changing the subject line to more accurately reflect the discussion. I solved my problem. It was a lot simpler than what the discussion indicated. I reason my C64 didn't work after my changes was that I had put the VIC-II chip in wrong. Two pins were sticking out. From looking at the discussion it was apparent that it follows the old story of the 6 blind men and the elephant. Every was looking at a different part and was right, but didn't see the big picture and never really had any specific experience doing what I wanted to do (i.e. no one had actually done it!). For the last few years I asked different people questions, and didn't get anywhere. I realized that none of them had actually converted a C64 and were guessing. So I decided to look up the information myself and just do it.
Not true, I have converted Commodore PAL machines to NTSC and I have the process documented on my web site. It's very easy. I assumed you had a PAL machine from England or something and we were working on getting a suitable display I did not realize that you did not check your work more closely before you asked everyone to help you. b b
On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 7:57 PM Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Not true, I have converted Commodore PAL machines to NTSC and I have the process documented on my web site. It's very easy. I assumed you had a PAL machine from England or something and we were working on getting a suitable display I did not realize that you did not check your work more closely before you asked everyone to help you.
I'm sorry. I had not realized that had converted a Commodore 64. Why didn't you just say so? Why did you suggest a step-down transformer, when it wasn't necessary to convert it? -- ======================================================= Jeff Brace =======================================================
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