On 8/4/21 1:46 PM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

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On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 1:42 PM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

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I'm doing a bit of cleanup around the house an suddenly found an IBM XT (think it's really a real XT). It has many boards and a full height drive in it. Unfortunately a mouse made a nest in it. So some cleanup effort on my part will be needed.

BTW, I have no idea where this came from. I only thought I had the IBM PC motherboard. Any words of wisdom?

Let It Be

I ask for Help, I get Let It Be. Next you'll offer Revoler Lol! I walked right in that one -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

It’s not an exhibit about Mouse Kelly, so it’s “mice” :-) On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 3:30 PM William Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

Add it to the "mice" exhibit?

-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic [mailto:vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org] On Behalf Of Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2021 1:42 PM To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Cc: Neil Cherry <ncherry@linuxha.com> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Found an IBM XT in my garage.

I'm doing a bit of cleanup around the house an suddenly found an IBM XT (think it's really a real XT). It has many boards and a full height drive in it. Unfortunately a mouse made a nest in it. So some cleanup effort on my part will be needed.

BTW, I have no idea where this came from. I only thought I had the IBM PC motherboard. Any words of wisdom?

-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Nice! I have an XT CLONE same issue. Mice got in it. Mike R. Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.

On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:29 PM, William Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

Add it to the "mice" exhibit?

-----Original Message----- From: vcf-midatlantic [mailto:vcf-midatlantic-bounces@lists.vcfed.org] On Behalf Of Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2021 1:42 PM To: vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org Cc: Neil Cherry <ncherry@linuxha.com> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Found an IBM XT in my garage.

I'm doing a bit of cleanup around the house an suddenly found an IBM XT (think it's really a real XT). It has many boards and a full height drive in it. Unfortunately a mouse made a nest in it. So some cleanup effort on my part will be needed.

BTW, I have no idea where this came from. I only thought I had the IBM PC motherboard. Any words of wisdom?

-- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hantavirus is pretty rare outside the southwest, but it’s still not something I’d really want to roll the dice on. I feel compelled to share something I was made aware of a few years ago: the legendary (and incredibly foul) HantaPET.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNsEGs3nWLgMkUJF3ywCtEVHp0NRi2o0xd9OiE1...  I'm not sure what became of this mess, but I do know that it's a prime example of what nesting animals can do to a beloved Commodore. -Alexander 'Z' Pierson On Wednesday, August 4, 2021, 3:49:31 PM EDT, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On Aug 4, 2021, at 13:42, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

I'm doing a bit of cleanup around the house an suddenly found an IBM XT (think it's really a real XT). It has many boards and a full height drive in it. Unfortunately a mouse made a nest in it. So some cleanup effort on my part will be needed.

BTW, I have no idea where this came from. I only thought I had the IBM PC motherboard. Any words of wisdom?

Other than clean it really well? Mouse waste, besides being corrosive to electronics, can also be full of nasties. Hantavirus is pretty rare outside the southwest, but it’s still not something I’d really want to roll the dice on. - Dave

On 8/4/21 5:43 PM, Bruce via vcf-midatlantic wrote:

Neils post prompts this lurker to inquire: Just how old need a computer be to be of interest to VCF? PC was - what? -- 1980? AT after that. XT even later. What about minor brands, etc.?

This is very subjective. To some kids today, a Pentium 4 is vintage. I think to people like us, "it depends". A 286 box probably isn't, but a VAX made in the same year probably is. But everyone has their own feelings about it. It's kinda like fighting over "firsts". You just know...don't fry your brain trying to quantify it and generate rules to make the decision for you. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 5:52 PM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

It’s like pornography. You know vintage when you see it.

So any computer with grainy output and bad sound?

Yes, the TS-1000 qualifies ;-) On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 2:44 PM Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 5:52 PM Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

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It’s like pornography. You know vintage when you see it.

So any computer with grainy output and bad sound?

I would agree that the time range and qualifications are varied. By the book though, vintage usually is defined as an authentic and significant item about 20 years or older. So a good example: The IBM AT would be vintage. A random 286 clone... perhaps not. Now defining retro, that’s a whole other can of worms. Haha. -Josh “Singularity”

On Aug 4, 2021, at 5:46 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

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On 8/4/21 5:43 PM, Bruce via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Neils post prompts this lurker to inquire: Just how old need a computer be to be of interest to VCF? PC was - what? -- 1980? AT after that. XT even later. What about minor brands, etc.?

This is very subjective. To some kids today, a Pentium 4 is vintage.

I think to people like us, "it depends". A 286 box probably isn't, but a VAX made in the same year probably is. But everyone has their own feelings about it.

It's kinda like fighting over "firsts". You just know...don't fry your brain trying to quantify it and generate rules to make the decision for you.

-Dave

-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 5:46 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

This is very subjective. To some kids today, a Pentium 4 is vintage.

I think to people like us, "it depends".

That is very much at the core of the argument. There is a personal/subjective element to the definition and the wider the age-range of the group making such a determination, the less likely there will be concensus. There is a sweet spot at about 20-25 years for people because they are of an age for nostalgia to emerge and they hearken back to either the machine they had at a certain age (usually between 7 and 17) or the machine they _wish_ they had back then. That becomes the center of what constitutes "vintage". For myself, I have a hard time accepting anything that runs Windows 95 or newer as "vintage". Pentiums and newer are just "old". I'm not all that keen on commodity PCs being vintage, but at 40 years, the IBM 5150 has attained some sort of status. And I agree that not everything is in lock-step. Just because you pick "a year" doesn't mean all things made in that year are equally "vintage", especially comparing the last model of X with the first model of Y. 1995 _is_ a turning point in computing just because of the release of Windows 95 as breaking away from plain DOS and older versions of Windows, so I agree it makes a good place to draw _a_ line for evaluation. Lots of words to say pretty much "me too". -ethan

Why this topic comes up every so many months proves that it's impossible to pick a set of years, bracket them, and declare, A-ha Vintage! Doing so causes one to extend the brackets every year or two like the Julian calendar before it became clear for the need of a leap year. Computing has eras, and one would evaluate a device, software or whatever as "vintage of a particular era." That's pretty much it, simple and flexible. Eras overlap, perspectives change, markets evolve. Using years alone to define vintage computing is impossible. It might be interesting to note that many of the original arguments we had on the subject back when we formed this club were about whether to allow the IBM PC/XT in as vintage. At the time the consensus was no, the IBM PC was too new to be vintage. When we did the huge IBM PC exhibit at VCF 5 or whatever it was the controversy was that it was too early to allow an exhibit about the IBM PC. I remember Evan was kind of against it at the time but we did it anyway. BIll kennettclassic.com On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 8:53 PM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

Hi Bruce,

VCF, as a national organization, does not weigh in on what is and is not vintage.

VCFMA (MA = Mid Atlantic) takes the perspective of scope and also does not weigh in on what is and is not vintage. The decision there was that the cut off date is 1995. This doesn't mean MA is uninterested in post 1995 computing equipment and certainly doesn't mean MA thinks anything post 1995 is explicitly *not* vintage, but it does require that the Steering Committee make an active decision about a potential incoming donation on equipment newer than 1995.

Scope is extremely important at the museum level as no organization has an infinite amount of display or storage space. My favorite example is the Homecomputermuseum in the Netherlands. They have some absolutely amazing displays that are totally within their scope. MA also has some absolutely amazing displays at Infoage that are totally within their, very different, scope.

I love living in a world where places like LSSM (just got their Cray working!), System Source (just acquired a Lisa 1!), Homecomputermuseum (recently became home of the world's largest collection of CD-i media!), the Infoage VCFMA museum, and on and on all have different scopes. No one organization can store and display everything.

As to brands, sometimes the minor brands are the most interesting. I'm particularly fond of the Zorba luggable, for example. What is kept by MA is entirely dependent on what is already in inventory and available storage space.

I hope this helps!

Best wishes,

-Adam

--- Adam Michlin Director of Marketing Vintage Computer Federation

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 5:43 PM Bruce via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

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Neils post prompts this lurker to inquire: Just how old need a computer

be

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to be of interest to VCF? PC was - what? -- 1980? AT after that. XT even later. What about minor brands, etc.? Bruce NJ

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 1:42 PM Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

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I'm doing a bit of cleanup around the house an suddenly found an IBM XT (think it's really a real XT).