Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Another T-Shirt Rescue (DEC Alpha)
Jameel Akari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> writes:
On Jan 28, 2022, at 4:41 PM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic = <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >=20 >=20 > Dean Notarnicola was nice enough to scan it and Javier Rivera cleaned > it up for reprinting. Neither Dean, myself, or I (or VCF) receives any > money from the sale and yeah, we know DEC (now owned, I believe, by > HP) might copyright strike us so get it while you can. >=20 > https://www.8bittees.com/product/alpha-two-sided-tee/
Just ordered one. Thanks for making this possible. Now I know what to exhibit and what to wear. :)
Are Alpha now *vintage*?
Ahh.. the eternal debate "What is vintage?". I don't have an answer. I can tell you, entirely for practical reasons, VCF MA has decided the cut off date for artifact acquisitions is 1995. This doesn't mean they don't take anything after 1995, just that the default for later than 1995 is no. It also doesn't mean anything before 1995 is "vintage" and anything after is "not vintage". There is just literally only so much space for storage and prioritizing older artifacts as a default does seem both practical and prudent. So, at least under that definition, VCF MA would gladly accept a donation of an Alpha (I think they may have one... but the more the merrier!) since it was introduced in November 1992. Ultimately, each person has to decide what is or is not vintage for themselves and debating our individual decisions might be fun, but will never lead to OneTrueAnswer<tm>. I'll also use this opportunity to address any concerns that I am disparaging the Alpha. I still remember my computer architecture professor in 1993 telling us that Intel only had a few years left before RISC was going to win the processor wars. My university had labs of SparcStations and Indigos (1s, at that) to prove it. I had especially high hopes that the Alpha was going to become the processor of the future. Of course, as we all know, Intel out RISC'd the RISC machines and even had to be reminded (Itanium... booooo!) by AMD that backwards compatibility (x86-64) is king. Just imagine if DEC had added dynamic binary translation (or some other technology) to run x86 binaries on Windows NT for Alpha. I can complain forever about Apple, but they always understood the need for backwards compatibility. 680x0 -> PowerPC, PowerPC -> x86, x86 -> ARM. And, for reasons that will be obvious to some people, it is so much easier to have a RISC chip run CISC than the other way around, so DEC probably could have done it or at the very least done a better job evangelizing companies to compile directly to Alpha. So Alpha wasn't a failure as a product, but it also didn't set the world on fire like I think it could have. It has also become somewhat of a footnote in history much like my favorite processor ever, Sparc. Sadly, I teach MIPS assembly these days, even though my heart will always be with Sparc, because it is close enough and much more practical in terms of platform independent simulators. And, to head off the obvious question, I teach MIPS after 6502 assembly to my computer architecture and high school students because starting assembly with x86 is JustCruel<tm>. Best wishes, -Adam On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 10:30 AM Brian Schenkenberger via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Jameel Akari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> writes:
On Jan 28, 2022, at 4:41 PM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic = <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >=20 >=20 > Dean Notarnicola was nice enough to scan it and Javier Rivera cleaned > it up for reprinting. Neither Dean, myself, or I (or VCF) receives any > money from the sale and yeah, we know DEC (now owned, I believe, by > HP) might copyright strike us so get it while you can. >=20 > https://www.8bittees.com/product/alpha-two-sided-tee/
Just ordered one. Thanks for making this possible. Now I know what to exhibit and what to wear. :)
Are Alpha now *vintage*?
VCF has a few Alphas - they have two DEC/Compaq ES40s- which support multiple (4) Alpha 21264 68/833-MHz CPUs. These are the big blue rack-mountable, post-1995 (no comment) 4u systems that can run Tru64 or OpenVMS. A donation of a more period appropriate system I'm sure would be appreciated, but at least VCF has a representation of an Alpha system if they need. it. -andy
On Jan 29, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Ahh.. the eternal debate "What is vintage?".
So, at least under that definition, VCF MA would gladly accept a donation of an Alpha (I think they may have one... but the more the merrier!) since it was introduced in November 1992.
On 1/29/22 11:34 AM, Andrew Diller via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
VCF has a few Alphas - they have two DEC/Compaq ES40s- which support multiple (4) Alpha 21264 68/833-MHz CPUs.
These are the big blue rack-mountable, post-1995 (no comment) 4u systems that can run Tru64 or OpenVMS.
Wow. Not vintage *at all*. But they will be eventually.
A donation of a more period appropriate system I'm sure would be appreciated, but at least VCF has a representation of an Alpha system if they need. it.
I have a few spare DEC3000-300s; I'd be happy to send one over. That's a 1993 model. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 11:03 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
So, at least under that definition, VCF MA would gladly accept a donation of an Alpha (I think they may have one... but the more the
We *do* have one! Would love someone to see if it is working! <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On 1/29/22 6:44 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
So, at least under that definition, VCF MA would gladly accept a donation of an Alpha (I think they may have one... but the more the
We *do* have one! Would love someone to see if it is working!
I can help with that. What model is it, do you know offhand? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 6:53 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 1/29/22 6:44 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
So, at least under that definition, VCF MA would gladly accept a donation of an Alpha (I think they may have one... but the more the
We *do* have one! Would love someone to see if it is working!
I can help with that. What model is it, do you know offhand?
Alex Jacocks said that it is an ES-40 donated by David Riley.
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On 1/29/22 7:08 PM, Jeffrey Brace wrote:
>> So, at least under that definition, VCF MA would gladly accept a >> donation of an Alpha (I think they may have one... but the more the > > We *do* have one! Would love someone to see if it is working!
I can help with that. What model is it, do you know offhand?
Alex Jacocks said that it is an ES-40 donated by David Riley.
Ah, ok. That machine works fine. I say that because it used to be mine. ;) It's pretty far from being a "vintage" Alpha, though. Give it a decade. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Jan 29, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Ahh.. the eternal debate "What is vintage?".
A question with a forever-sliding window of time.
I'll also use this opportunity to address any concerns that I am disparaging the Alpha. I still remember my computer architecture
As an Alpha fan, I didn’t read it this way at all.
professor in 1993 telling us that Intel only had a few years left before RISC was going to win the processor wars. My university had
Sounds like my computer hardware & architecture professor, who spent a whole lot of grant money on AlphaServers, which then I got to be paid to play with. :) He held his nose when we finally arm twisted him into buying some x86 workstations for the lab.
Just imagine if DEC had added dynamic binary translation (or some other technology) to run x86 binaries on Windows NT for Alpha. I can
This definitely happened, it’s called FX!32 and it works better than I thought it would.
probably could have done it or at the very least done a better job evangelizing companies to compile directly to Alpha.
This unfortunately didn’t happen as much, at least for NT. Though I’ve recently come across a stash of supposedly native NT software I never expected to see. So for the first time in 23 years I’ll install NT/Alpha and try it out.
So Alpha wasn't a failure as a product, but it also didn't set the world on fire like I think it could have. It has also become somewhat of a footnote in history much like my favorite processor ever, Sparc.
For us 90s Unix kids, Alpha was a Big Deal and continued to be impressive right up to when Compaq took over DEC and things got hazy with Intel. And then HP had its own ideas as it also got in bed with Intel on the Itanium. (This is a timeline with subtle details I will research for VCF East, and will give me a reason to reach out to a friend I haven’t talked to in a long time.) VMS customers who remained loyal also had reason to be happy for Alpha, even if DEC didn’t give them a transparently VAX-equivalent floating point representation. Though you can still buy brand new Sparc machines from Oracle right now, if you were a corporate customer with that kind of money to burn. /jka
On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 10:30 AM Brian Schenkenberger via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Jameel Akari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> writes:
On Jan 28, 2022, at 4:41 PM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic = <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >=20 >=20 > Dean Notarnicola was nice enough to scan it and Javier Rivera cleaned > it up for reprinting. Neither Dean, myself, or I (or VCF) receives any > money from the sale and yeah, we know DEC (now owned, I believe, by > HP) might copyright strike us so get it while you can. >=20 > https://www.8bittees.com/product/alpha-two-sided-tee/
Just ordered one. Thanks for making this possible. Now I know what to exhibit and what to wear. :)
Are Alpha now *vintage*?
Yes by the past few years of precedent at VCF East. Alpha CPUs 30 year anniversary, out of production, out of support, very last new machines came out 20 years ago, etc etc. -- Jameel Akari
On Jan 29, 2022, at 10:30 AM, Brian Schenkenberger via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Jameel Akari via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> writes:
On Jan 28, 2022, at 4:41 PM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic = <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >=20 >=20 > Dean Notarnicola was nice enough to scan it and Javier Rivera cleaned > it up for reprinting. Neither Dean, myself, or I (or VCF) receives any > money from the sale and yeah, we know DEC (now owned, I believe, by > HP) might copyright strike us so get it while you can. >=20 > https://www.8bittees.com/product/alpha-two-sided-tee/
Just ordered one. Thanks for making this possible. Now I know what to exhibit and what to wear. :)
Are Alpha now *vintage*?
participants (7)
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Adam Michlin -
Andrew Diller -
Dave McGuire -
Jameel akari -
Jameel Akari
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Jeffrey Brace -
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