Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Processors exhibit
There are several story lines for the microcontroller/processor exhibit 1) The Tyrrany Of Numbers: as computers got more complex, there were incredible problems with how to handle so many components. Thousands of tubes for ENIAC and such would not scale up. SAGE required constant maintanance, thus the dual system to keep running. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_numbers That's happening again in a new way: pin count on the package. The 4004 was only 16 pins. 40 pins was common from the 70s to 80s with the 8008, 8080, 8086, 8088, Z80, 6502, 6800 and such. Easy for hobbyists to breadboard or hand-wire. The 68000 was 64 pins. CPUs expanded to 100. Now 1,000 or more with pin-grid array. 2) Moore's Law We're accustomed to speed and capacity doubling and redoubling and prices plummeting, thus the $5 Raspberry Pi Zero, dual/quad/octo-core processors in just about everything (desktop, laptop, even cellphones). 3) wider playing field Despite the "Intel Inside" campaign, the ARM core is in many more devices. Before the Intel/AMD duopoly, there was a wider playing field as demonstrated by all the hobbyist and pre-PC microsystems: Motorola's 6800, MOS's 6502, Zilog's Z80, RCA's 1802. There was quite the shake-out when the PC architecture "won". In a way, the maker/hacker community is aware of this thanks to the Arduio (most are Atmel AVR based), Raspberry Pi (cheap embedded Linux on the ARM core). That's another way to show how it's history repeating itself with the diversity of competing products. And how more innovation comes from people's basements & garages than large companies. The IoT (Internet of Things) is just a new face to microcontroller hackers. -- jeff jonas
On Jan 6, 2017 6:09 AM, "Jeffrey Jonas via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
There are several story lines for the microcontroller/processor exhibit
1) The Tyrrany Of Numbers: as computers got more complex, there were incredible problems with how to handle so many components. Thousands of tubes for ENIAC and such would not scale up. SAGE required constant maintanance, thus the dual system to keep running.
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_numbers
That's happening again in a new way: pin count on the package. The 4004 was only 16 pins. 40 pins was common from the 70s to 80s with the 8008, 8080, 8086, 8088, Z80, 6502, 6800 and such. Easy for hobbyists to breadboard or hand-wire. The 68000 was 64 pins. CPUs expanded to 100. Now 1,000 or more with pin-grid array.
2) Moore's Law We're accustomed to speed and capacity doubling and redoubling and prices plummeting, thus the $5 Raspberry Pi Zero, dual/quad/octo-core processors in just about everything (desktop, laptop, even cellphones).
3) wider playing field Despite the "Intel Inside" campaign, the ARM core is in many more devices. Before the Intel/AMD duopoly, there was a wider playing field as demonstrated by all the hobbyist and pre-PC microsystems: Motorola's 6800, MOS's 6502, Zilog's Z80, RCA's 1802. There was quite the shake-out when the PC architecture "won".
In a way, the maker/hacker community is aware of this thanks to the Arduio (most are Atmel AVR based), Raspberry Pi (cheap embedded Linux on the ARM core). That's another way to show how it's history repeating itself with the diversity of competing products. And how more innovation comes from people's basements & garages than large companies. The IoT (Internet of Things) is just a new face to microcontroller hackers.
-- jeff jonas
Good thoughts and a nice breakdown Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net
Hmm. Research into old CPU's made me realize that I had an RCA COSMAC 1802 microprocessor in one of my very old video game systems (The RCA Studio II). Unfortunately, when I got it, I had never heard of it, and ended up selling the game console, 2 extra AC adapters/tv-game switches, and all but 2 of the games ever created for the system. Well, hindsight is 20/20... or should I say 18/02 LOL On Friday, January 6, 2017, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
On Jan 6, 2017 6:09 AM, "Jeffrey Jonas via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org <javascript:;>> wrote:
There are several story lines for the microcontroller/processor exhibit
1) The Tyrrany Of Numbers: as computers got more complex, there were incredible problems with how to handle so many components. Thousands of tubes for ENIAC and such would not scale up. SAGE required constant maintanance, thus the dual system to keep running.
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_numbers
That's happening again in a new way: pin count on the package. The 4004 was only 16 pins. 40 pins was common from the 70s to 80s with the 8008, 8080, 8086, 8088, Z80, 6502, 6800 and such. Easy for hobbyists to breadboard or hand-wire. The 68000 was 64 pins. CPUs expanded to 100. Now 1,000 or more with pin-grid array.
2) Moore's Law We're accustomed to speed and capacity doubling and redoubling and prices plummeting, thus the $5 Raspberry Pi Zero, dual/quad/octo-core processors in just about everything (desktop, laptop, even cellphones).
3) wider playing field Despite the "Intel Inside" campaign, the ARM core is in many more
devices.
Before the Intel/AMD duopoly, there was a wider playing field as demonstrated by all the hobbyist and pre-PC microsystems: Motorola's 6800, MOS's 6502, Zilog's Z80, RCA's 1802. There was quite the shake-out when the PC architecture "won".
In a way, the maker/hacker community is aware of this thanks to the Arduio (most are Atmel AVR based), Raspberry Pi (cheap embedded Linux on the ARM core). That's another way to show how it's history repeating itself with the diversity of competing products. And how more innovation comes from people's basements & garages than large companies. The IoT (Internet of Things) is just a new face to microcontroller hackers.
-- jeff jonas
Good thoughts and a nice breakdown Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net
-- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?
I have a copy of "The Chip" that I will bring to the workshop in January, so it can be passed around, and then donated to the Museum (assuming Evan will have it.) Bill Dudley This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 11:01 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
The Tyrrany Of Numbers
I highly recommend the book "The Chip" by TR Reid for historical perspective on this.
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017, Jeffrey Jonas via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
1) The Tyrrany Of Numbers: as computers got more complex, there were incredible problems with how to handle so many components. Thousands of tubes for ENIAC and such would not scale up. SAGE required constant maintanance, thus the dual system to keep running.
Re: SAGE Maintenance issues aside, the duplexed systems were more a military requirement for the air defense task. The follow-on to SAGE, the Hughes-built AN/FYQ-93 which went operational in 1983, was also duplexed. SAGE's maintenance procedures, including computer-controlled marginal checking, permitted a phenomenal overall uptime of 99.83%. The duplexed setup also allowed the standby system to be used for training. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
participants (6)
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Evan Koblentz -
Jeffrey Jonas -
Joseph Oprysko -
Mike Loewen -
william degnan -
William Dudley