Folks, I have to give a public Shout Out / Thank You to Jonathan Chapman and Glitch Works for the VCF East 2022 workshop / S-100 Clinic. Jonathan worked tirelessly to get kits built, and S-100 systems fixed, while being incredibly patient even with newbies, tough customers, and some idiot who clogged his desolder station. Highlights were: * Simply seeing 3 IMSAI’s (mine included) in a row on the CDL workbench with one early Altair was a treat. Ryan, Dmitry, and I got to see what other configurations the IMSAI’s had, and swapped known-good parts between us for testing. * Seeing a young woman come in, never having soldered before and seeing her first do a learners kit, then a full-on Glitch project. There was also another young woman there later (Connor’s friend) also doing a kit. * Just seeing people walk in, and say “so, what is all this”? and talk a bit about the CDL, and what we were working on. (Tip for introverts, the end of the front workbench nearest the door make you spokesperson pro tem) Jonathan’s expertise is hard to overstate, and he got my IMSAI operational. Jonathan did all the troubleshooting, and brought up the IMSAI power supply slowly so the electrolytic caps didn’t get all explodey I swapped out some known-bad front-panel switches, then the fun began. I recall there being at least a few badly tarnished TTL chips, and a bad one-shot chip. At least two bad IC sockets, one of which was under front-panel switches - Jonathan showed how the socket could be removed without major surgery. Dmitry loaned a 3 voltage / current limited power supply so boards could be tested *before* plugging into the IMSAI bus. In the end, I had a basic operational system, which is fantastic. Jonathan identified some of my mystery s-100 boards, procured at Trenton ages ago. In fact Ryan had one of them also to test, a video terminal board. Ryan also loaned me his front panel as a swap test, and the extra pair of hands needed for lucite cover re-installation. So, thanks Jon/Glitch! I promise to never clog up your Hakko desolder station ever again! -Crawford
On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 4:50 PM Crawford Griffith via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
Folks,
I have to give a public Shout Out / Thank You to Jonathan Chapman and Glitch Works for the VCF East 2022 workshop / S-100 Clinic. Jonathan worked
I was glad to give Glitch permission to do a S-100 clinic due to the shortage of kits this year. It only made sense to do something in addition to the kits this year as they would sell out quickly and something cool needed to be in that area. It appears to have been a wonderful experience for everyone.
tirelessly to get kits built, and S-100 systems fixed, while being incredibly patient even with newbies, tough customers, and some idiot who clogged his desolder station.
I will be taking care of that idiot next year to prevent them interfering with not only that area, but all areas of the show.
Highlights were:
* Simply seeing 3 IMSAI’s (mine included) in a row on the CDL workbench with one early Altair was a treat. Ryan, Dmitry, and I got to see what other configurations the IMSAI’s had, and swapped known-good parts between us for testing.
Very cool!
* Seeing a young woman come in, never having soldered before and seeing her first do a learners kit, then a full-on Glitch project. There was also another young woman there later (Connor’s friend) also doing a kit.
Always good to have new people!
* Just seeing people walk in, and say “so, what is all this”? and talk a bit about the CDL, and what we were working on. (Tip for introverts, the end of the front workbench nearest the door make you spokesperson pro tem)
Good to talk up CDL as well as VCF!
Jonathan’s expertise is hard to overstate, and he got my IMSAI operational. Jonathan did all the troubleshooting, and brought up the IMSAI power supply slowly so the electrolytic caps didn’t get all explodey I swapped out some known-bad front-panel switches, then the fun began. I recall there being at least a few badly tarnished TTL chips, and a bad one-shot chip. At least two bad IC sockets, one of which was under front-panel switches - Jonathan showed how the socket could be removed without major surgery. Dmitry loaned a 3 voltage / current limited power supply so boards could be tested *before* plugging into the IMSAI bus. In the end, I had a basic operational system, which is fantastic. Jonathan identified some of my mystery s-100 boards, procured at Trenton ages ago. In fact Ryan had one of them also to test, a video terminal board. Ryan also loaned me his front panel as a swap test, and the extra pair of hands needed for lucite cover re-installation.
So, thanks Jon/Glitch! I promise to never clog up your Hakko desolder station ever again!
Glitch always does wonderful things in the Glitchworks workshop during VCF East!
-Crawford
Did someone just goof around and see how much fresh solder they could suck up into the thing?
Heh, Crawford is just picking on himself, he hadn't used a Hakko before and didn't know you try to keep the tip (metallic/flux) dry -- that's why they recommend the brass wool cleaner, it scrapes it clean. He dunked the tip in flux as one does with a soldering iron, to clean it. The Hakko runs at 750 *F and basically instantly carbonized it into a plug. Fortunately, CDL has a numbers drill set and we used one of the little ones to clean it out. As luck would have it, the proper tool for that (a small drill in a pin vise) got left at the shop! Thanks, Jonathan
On 4/30/22 18:44, Jonathan Chapman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Did someone just goof around and see how much fresh solder they could suck up into the thing?
Heh, Crawford is just picking on himself, he hadn't used a Hakko before and didn't know you try to keep the tip (metallic/flux) dry -- that's why they recommend the brass wool cleaner, it scrapes it clean. He dunked the tip in flux as one does with a soldering iron, to clean it. The Hakko runs at 750 *F and basically instantly carbonized it into a plug. Fortunately, CDL has a numbers drill set and we used one of the little ones to clean it out. As luck would have it, the proper tool for that (a small drill in a pin vise) got left at the shop!
Thanks, Jonathan
BRASS WOOOL, EEEEEK! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 5/1/22 13:07, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Did someone just goof around and see how much fresh solder they could suck up into the thing?
Heh, Crawford is just picking on himself, he hadn't used a Hakko before and didn't know you try to keep the tip (metallic/flux) dry -- that's why they recommend the brass wool cleaner, it scrapes it clean. He dunked the tip in flux as one does with a soldering iron, to clean it. The Hakko runs at 750 *F and basically instantly carbonized it into a plug. Fortunately, CDL has a numbers drill set and we used one of the little ones to clean it out. As luck would have it, the proper tool for that (a small drill in a pin vise) got left at the shop!
BRASS WOOOL, EEEEEK!
Nonono, not the super-fine stuff that destroys datacenters. The stuff he's talking about is very coarse and generally doesn't turn into electronics-destroying dust. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 5/1/22 13:10, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 5/1/22 13:07, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Did someone just goof around and see how much fresh solder they could suck up into the thing?
Heh, Crawford is just picking on himself, he hadn't used a Hakko before and didn't know you try to keep the tip (metallic/flux) dry -- that's why they recommend the brass wool cleaner, it scrapes it clean. He dunked the tip in flux as one does with a soldering iron, to clean it. The Hakko runs at 750 *F and basically instantly carbonized it into a plug. Fortunately, CDL has a numbers drill set and we used one of the little ones to clean it out. As luck would have it, the proper tool for that (a small drill in a pin vise) got left at the shop!
BRASS WOOOL, EEEEEK!
Nonono, not the super-fine stuff that destroys datacenters. The stuff he's talking about is very coarse and generally doesn't turn into electronics-destroying dust.
I hate the brass wool for our soldering irons. Much more partial to use of a sponge. I've seen too many folks wipe the snot of their soldering iron down to the copper inside (3 to get to the inside of a tootsie pop). Sorry I don't like abrasives on my soldering iron tips. I also don't like using the tip to melt anything other than solder. I use the barrel for heat shrink. For the desoldering iron the wool might be okay. And yes, always need to clean a desoldering iron (disassemble). Solder suckers also need to be cleaned out. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
On 5/1/22 13:25, Neil Cherry wrote:
BRASS WOOOL, EEEEEK!
Nonono, not the super-fine stuff that destroys datacenters. The stuff he's talking about is very coarse and generally doesn't turn into electronics-destroying dust.
I hate the brass wool for our soldering irons. Much more partial to use of a sponge. I've seen too many folks wipe the snot of their soldering iron down to the copper inside (3 to get to the inside of a tootsie pop).
Sorry I don't like abrasives on my soldering iron tips. I also don't like using the tip to melt anything other than solder. I use the barrel for heat shrink.
For the desoldering iron the wool might be okay.
And yes, always need to clean a desoldering iron (disassemble). Solder suckers also need to be cleaned out.
Ah ok, I thought you were reacting to the "wool" part of it. I share your opinions here; I've always been a sponge man. I worry about the brass stuff damaging the plating on my tips. However, the brass stuff is trusted by many people whose opinions I value, so I've occasionally considered giving it a try. I use a hot air soldering station for heat shrink tubing. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
I might be the exception then, as I ditched sponges long ago for the coarse steel wool and I've never looked back. I've never had a tip damaged (PACE, Metcal, and Weller here), and one less thing (ensuring sponge has moisture in it) to worry about. Jim -- RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems www.go4retro.com store.go4retro.com
On 5/1/22 16:56, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I might be the exception then, as I ditched sponges long ago for the coarse steel wool and I've never looked back. I've never had a tip damaged (PACE, Metcal, and Weller here), and one less thing (ensuring sponge has moisture in it) to worry about.
Tell me more. Does the steel (brass, etc) wool get your tips as clean as a wet sponge? (I've been using sponges for ~45 years, so I'm reading every word!) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 5/1/2022 3:59 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 5/1/22 16:56, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I might be the exception then, as I ditched sponges long ago for the coarse steel wool and I've never looked back. I've never had a tip damaged (PACE, Metcal, and Weller here), and one less thing (ensuring sponge has moisture in it) to worry about.
Tell me more. Does the steel (brass, etc) wool get your tips as clean as a wet sponge?
(I've been using sponges for ~45 years, so I'm reading every word!)
-Dave
At least for me it does, and if you jab into the middle, it cleans all parts of the tip at once, no need to reposition the tip on the sponge (maybe no one else had to do that, but I sometimes get stuff on the top of the tip) Sorry, I realized I misspoke above. brass wool, not steel. I do carpentry as well, so steel wool evidently leaves the fingers onto the KB faster. Jim -- RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems www.go4retro.com store.go4retro.com
If your soldering iron tip is almost unusable because of oxidation, the brass “wool” will actually clean it enough so you can use flux to re tin the tip. Mike Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
On May 1, 2022, at 4:59 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 5/1/22 16:56, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I might be the exception then, as I ditched sponges long ago for the coarse steel wool and I've never looked back. I've never had a tip damaged (PACE, Metcal, and Weller here), and one less thing (ensuring sponge has moisture in it) to worry about.
Tell me more. Does the steel (brass, etc) wool get your tips as clean as a wet sponge?
(I've been using sponges for ~45 years, so I'm reading every word!)
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
Ah, yeah. I depend on my tools for dinner, man. I take *much* better care of them than that. -Dave On 5/1/22 18:33, Sentrytv wrote:
If your soldering iron tip is almost unusable because of oxidation, the brass “wool” will actually clean it enough so you can use flux to re tin the tip.
Mike
Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
On May 1, 2022, at 4:59 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
On 5/1/22 16:56, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
I might be the exception then, as I ditched sponges long ago for the coarse steel wool and I've never looked back. I've never had a tip damaged (PACE, Metcal, and Weller here), and one less thing (ensuring sponge has moisture in it) to worry about.
Tell me more. Does the steel (brass, etc) wool get your tips as clean as a wet sponge?
(I've been using sponges for ~45 years, so I'm reading every word!)
-Dave
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
I hate the brass wool for our soldering irons.
Same, I only use it on the Hakko desoldering tools. It's what they recommend, and the tips do take a lot of abuse, due to the nature of desoldering.
Much more partial to use of a sponge.
That's what Hexacon recommends and what I use on all my irons (which are all Hexacon anyway, except I think the 250W for chassis work is an American Beauty). The tips last a very long time, and it cleans just fine, so that's what I do!
I've seen too many folks wipe the snot of their soldering iron down to the copper inside (3 to get to the inside of a tootsie pop).
Better than a few licks with a file :P
Sorry I don't like abrasives on my soldering iron tips.
Same. When the plating gets bad enough I'll eventually use a tip polishing bar on them, but that's the last step before the scrap bin. Even the Hexacon or Plato "Xtradur" iron-plated tips can't take tons of abrasive cleaning.
And yes, always need to clean a desoldering iron (disassemble). Solder suckers also need to be cleaned out.
I wouldn't buy a vacuum desoldering stations for *years* due to my experiences with Hakko units at a job in college. None of the units they had worked well, I actually brought my Rat Shack spring-type solder sucker in to use because it was way better! Turns out they were just very poorly maintained, I guess the guy whose job it was to keep them up either didn't know what he was doing, or didn't care, or something. I still do work for that business and have since rebuilt their Hakko stations, which now work just like mine! All were filthy inside, intermediate filters never seemed to have been changed, some had missing or badly worn parts that hindered operation, etc. Thanks, Jonathan
On 5/1/2022 1:07 PM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
On 4/30/22 18:44, Jonathan Chapman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Did someone just goof around and see how much fresh solder they could suck up into the thing?
Heh, Crawford is just picking on himself, he hadn't used a Hakko before and didn't know you try to keep the tip (metallic/flux) dry -- that's why they recommend the brass wool cleaner, it scrapes it clean. He dunked the tip in flux as one does with a soldering iron, to clean it. The Hakko runs at 750 *F and basically instantly carbonized it into a plug. Fortunately, CDL has a numbers drill set and we used one of the little ones to clean it out. As luck would have it, the proper tool for that (a small drill in a pin vise) got left at the shop!
Thanks, Jonathan
BRASS WOOOL, EEEEEK!
No, you want 0000 steel wool - leave it under the raised floor so it rusts away to dust & that conductive dust kills everything at random intervals.....
Thanks for the positive feedback! I'm glad everyone seemed to like it, and understood the situation with components shortages, major delays from board houses, etc. It was indeed fun to have so many machines up and being hacked on at once, and not just at my own shop :P And, everyone with an IMSAI left with a working one! More working IMSAIs is a net win for everyone, in my opinion. There was interest expressed in doing another S-100 repair workshop, where folks bring their own machines and we repair them. Jeff suggested in a VCF follow-up email with me that perhaps we plan it for one of the swapmeet/workshop weekends. Thanks, Jonathan
On Sat, 30 Apr 2022, Jonathan Chapman via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
Thanks for the positive feedback! I'm glad everyone seemed to like it, and understood the situation with components shortages, major delays from board houses, etc. It was indeed fun to have so many machines up and being hacked on at once, and not just at my own shop :P
I'll add my thanks to Jonathan, for providing a loaner CPU board and chip to help in troubleshooting my Vector 1. I did get it running and it behaved itself all day Sunday. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 6:47 PM Jonathan Chapman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
There was interest expressed in doing another S-100 repair workshop, where folks bring their own machines and we repair them. Jeff suggested in a VCF follow-up email with me that perhaps we plan it for one of the swapmeet/workshop weekends.
That sounds like a blast. I have a XOR S-100-12 stuffed with random cards. I'm sure I can track down manuals for most of them, but having some S-100 expertise on hand to reconfigure and test this would be fantastic. -ethan
Thanks, Jonathan
Once again, the Glitchworks workshop saved my bacon last weekend when I noticed the 5V rail was climbing out of spec on my Nova. I removed the entire power supply board and brought it over to the CDL, where Jonathan and I desoldered the failing chip and installed a socket in record time. Once that Hakko desoldering iron was cleaned up, it worked a charm. While the Nova wasn't 100% after that, it wasn't trying to self-destruct any more. That sort of space to work on systems that need emergency repairs at the show is very much appreciated. Thanks again for the help,-Alexander 'Z' Pierson On Sunday, May 1, 2022, 12:45:56 AM EDT, Ethan Dicks via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 6:47 PM Jonathan Chapman via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
There was interest expressed in doing another S-100 repair workshop, where folks bring their own machines and we repair them. Jeff suggested in a VCF follow-up email with me that perhaps we plan it for one of the swapmeet/workshop weekends.
That sounds like a blast. I have a XOR S-100-12 stuffed with random cards. I'm sure I can track down manuals for most of them, but having some S-100 expertise on hand to reconfigure and test this would be fantastic. -ethan
Thanks, Jonathan
participants (12)
-
Alexander Pierson -
Crawford Griffith -
Dave McGuire -
Ethan Dicks -
Jeff S -
Jeffrey Brace -
Jonathan Chapman -
Martin Flynn -
Mike Loewen -
Neil Cherry -
RETRO Innovations -
Sentrytv