[vcf-midatlantic] WTB: DECbrouter

Dave McGuire mcguire at neurotica.com
Wed Jun 28 15:21:04 EDT 2017

  I didn't say it was impossible, I said it was pretty tough to do.
We've all seen those interfaces, and those of us (myself included) who
have used them have run up against the same old problem of driver
availability, OS version dependencies, etc etc.  Cisco was quite pleased
about all of that, as it certainly didn't hurt their exponential growth
in the 1990s.

  In fact the first widely-deployed router that was capable of routing
IP on a T3 at wire speed while handling BGP was an IBM RS/6000 7012-320
with a synchronous serial card in it, bundled by IBM as the 6611 Network

  But this is not the norm by any stretch.  The fact that it can be
done, and was very occasionally done, isn't really the point.


On 06/28/2017 03:05 PM, Kenneth Seefried via vcf-midatlantic wrote:
> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
>>   If you need to route something like a T1 or T3 line, that's pretty
>> tough to do on anything but a purpose-built router due to support for
>> those types of hardware interfaces.
> That's not really true, except for very exotic or very ancient
> interfaces.  I have at various times had DDS/ISDN, T-1/CT-1, T-3/DS-3,
> HSSI as well as Ethernet, TR, FDDI and ATM up to OC12 running on x86
> platforms under various open source OSes (usually FreeBSD or OpenBSD)
> in production.
> Admittedly, FDDI, TR & ATM support have aged poorly in OSS, I haven't
> tried HSSI in years, and not too many people are provisioning DS-3s or
> OC-12 these days given the alternatives.
> What you don't get on the open source platform relative to a Cisco,
> et. al., is the protocol support.  Pretty much only IP and limited
> higher level serial protocols (SDLC/HDLC/PPP/SLIP).
>> Further, for more modern circuits
>> like OC192s, etc, there really aren't too many general-purpose computers
>> available that can move data that fast in any predictable or consistent
>> way,
> While I'm unaware of an OC192 card for, say, PCI-e, FreeBSD on modern
> systems using Intel or Chelsio PCI-e ethernet cards can reliably route
> between 10G ports at wirespeed.  I haven't gotten any of the Chelsio
> 40G cards yet, but they're supported as well.  There are lots of folks
> doing exactly this to avoid the cost of something like a Cisco 12000
> series router.  Not just in labs or moms basement; for example the
> NANOG mailing list regularly has folks talking about this sort of
> setup running with BGP as core infrastructure.  Folks like ServU have
> built a business around Intel ecosystem + BSD + 1/10/40G routers.
> What you definitely don't get on OSS is more than rudimentary QoS.
> Sophisticated bandwidth management pretty much requires dedicated
> ASICs.
>> and nothing anywhere near as reliable or internally redundant as
>> something like a big Cisco or Juniper machine.  They exist with their
>> six-figure price tags for a reason.
> I would agree with this.
> From: systems_glitch <systems.glitch at gmail.com>
>> V.35 sync serial. You can *get* V.35 cards for PCs, but I'd imagine it's
>> not supported in most OSes I'd want to do routing in (namely, OpenBSD).
> You'd be surprised.  The Lan Media Corp sync serial cards are pretty
> well supported on OpenBSD.  The Sangoma sync cards might be; the T-1
> cards are.
> KJ

Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

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