[vcf-midatlantic] vcf-midatlantic Digest, Vol 20, Issue 29

Cory Smelosky b4 at gewt.net
Fri Jun 30 01:06:36 EDT 2017


[inline]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 29, 2017, at 21:06, Kenneth Seefried via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic at lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote:
> 
> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
>> I didn't say it was impossible, I said it was pretty tough to do.
> 
> And I said it wasn't.  It wasn't in the old days if you knew what you
> were doing and it definitely isn't now in the 95% of everything is
> Ethernet/IP world.
> 
>> We've all seen those interfaces, and those of us (myself included) who
>> have used them have run up against the same old problem of driver
>> availability, OS version dependencies, etc etc.
> 
> Some of us were and are capable of dealing with those issue and routinely do.
> 
>> In fact the first widely-deployed router that was capable of routing
>> IP on a T3 at wire speed while handling BGP was an IBM RS/6000 7012-320
>> with a synchronous serial card in it, bundled by IBM as the 6611 Network
>> Processor.
> 
> I'm quite familiar with the 6611. Awful things to build large networks
> with (I did) unless you really, really needed SNA/APPN weirdness that
> it took Cisco a while to figure out (I, regrettably, did).  But, yes,
> commodity hardware.  Lot's of IBM network network gear is "IBM
> [RT,PC,PS/2,Power] + ARTIC card" under the cover.
> 
> That said, I believe a properly configured Wellfleet BLN could handle
> T3 routing + BGP before the 6611 (in 1991?).  The Wellfleet BCN
> certainly could, but I think production BCNs were delayed till after
> the 6611 shipped.  I was building out a worldwide Wellfleet-based
> network at the time (1100 routers?), but some of the details have
> faded.  Wellfleet had the worst user interface ever conceived
> (SiteManager aka SiteMangler), but we deployed tons, including some
> interesting FDDI->FDDI routing scenarios (so the bandwidth was there).
> Let's not stroll into the minefield that was Wellfleets OSPF
> implementation....
> 
> Those were heady days.
> 
>> But this is not the norm by any stretch.
> 
> Perhaps not the norm by Cisco sales numbers, but that's kinda like
> saying *BSD doesn't exist because Microsoft.
> 
> - IBM sold a lot of 6611s.  For a long time.
> - Internet IMPs were Honeywell DDP-516s - we've been doing routing on
> commodity hardware for a long time.
> - Nokia sold tens of millions of bog-standard rackmount ATX PCs (later
> CPCI) running FreeBSD (relabled IPSO) as firewall/routers with
> optional V.35/X.21, HSSI, ATM & FDDI interfaces.  I still use a
> Nokia/Sagnoma sync serial card from an IP440 in my lab.
> - Most of the earlier Juniper line are repackaged PCs running FreeBSD
> (nee JunOS).
> - SnapRoute is a Linux-based routing platform that AT&T has vetted for
> 5G network routing on commodity hardware
> (http://about.att.com/story/white_box_collaboration.html).
> - etc., etc., etc.

I've used snaproute - it's a lot of Go-language based bits atop OpenNetworkLinux. I'm hoping they certified a more tested and debugged/in-house version compared to what I ran a few months ago.

There was this nice inability to ... create trunk switchports. Attempting to would completely destroy the config and I couldn't figure out which subproject to file a bug against.

> 
> And that ignores the whole Software Defined Network (SDN) trend which
> is predominately OSS+White Box Hardware.  Little guys like Google,
> Amazon & Facebook are betting on that.

There's still a bunch of ASIC handling offload of forwarding so I'm still confused as to what precisely is software defined in SDN ;)

Aside from, say, BigSwitch which does at least have a neat centralised control/management plane.

> 
>> The fact that it can be done, and was very occasionally done, isn't really the point.
> 
> Sure, when 'the point' becomes cherry-picking whatever allows you
> think declare yourself 'right'.  Par for the course, as they say.




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