[vcf-midatlantic] vcf-midatlantic Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12

Bill Degnan billdegnan at gmail.com
Mon Nov 12 12:31:44 EST 2018


I have been meaning to set up a simple proxy for older machines that don't
use SSL at all, or SSH.  Just have not gotten around to it.  Not too
complicated I don't think but I have not done it yet so I can't say with
100% certainty until I do.  When I do I will make the service available
somehow.
Bill


On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM <vcf-midatlantic-request at lists.vcfed.org>
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Vintage Server Racks FS or trade (Jeffrey Golas)
>    2.  Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 (Jeffrey Brace)
>    3. Re:  Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 (Tony Bogan)
>    4.  www locks out older browsers (Jim Scheef)
>    5. Re:  www locks out older browsers (Sentrytv)
>    6. Re:  www locks out older browsers (David Gesswein)
>    7. Re:  www locks out older browsers (Ethan O'Toole)
>    8. Re:  www locks out older browsers (Jim Scheef)
>    9. Re:  Hello Introduction (Drew Notarnicola)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 15:47:49 -0500
> From: Jeffrey Golas <jeffg at junknet.net>
> To: vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org
> Subject: Vintage Server Racks FS or trade
> Message-ID: <FD99E9BD-9D65-4DEA-9D92-506D5144FD36 at junknet.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> I have a vintage 1970s (or 60s?) server cabinet for sale. Good shape, blue
> filler panel on front and white panels on sides.
>
> Round hole, front panel can be removed. Breaker at bottom can be used as a
> power switch and is accesible from the front.
>
> Note that this is the rack only (anything else in pics is not for sale).
>
> Located in Blue Bell, PA (outside Philly) Best offer or trade for an
> interesting terminal or maybe s-100 boards?
>
> Pics here:
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cvohi2n8oog78tz/AACZBt9LiZPgTA-CZbGjD2dCa?dl=0
>
> Jeff
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:01:54 -0500
> From: Jeffrey Brace <jeffrey at vcfed.org>
> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org>
> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CALWfZA+QaYcA8KraETqrL6irK-z7rsVckY6MTRTPCN4gEoSk8g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Good and steady busy day at the museum. About 2 dozen visitors in total
> today. In groups between 1 to 5 spread out throughout the day. Some of it
> was because of some World War I event in 9032-A, but mostly it was because
> it is cold day and this time of year things start to pick up again as
> people look for indoor things to do.
>
> Lots of nice visitors with medium to high interest. Some really knew their
> stuff.
>
>
>
> --
> =========================================
> Jeff Brace
> Vice President
> Vintage Computer Federation
>
> --
> =========================================
> Jeff Brace
> Vice President
> Vintage Computer Federation
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:07:49 -0500
> From: Tony Bogan <thebogans at mac.com>
> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org>
> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11,
>         2018
> Message-ID: <5423C908-ADCB-4325-A943-B0216590E4C0 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Glad to hear it was such a good day!!
>
> I forgot today was the 100th anniversary of Armistice Day. Wanted to go up
> to IA for that but got stuck at work darnit!!
>
> Was the day of the Armistice with Germany (11am on the 11th day of the
> 11th month of 1918) which marked the end of all hostilities between the
> Allies and Germany.
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 01:08:43 -0500
> From: "Jim Scheef" <js at sdf.org>
> To: "'vcf-midatlantic'" <vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org>
> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
> Message-ID: <000001d47a4e$2d55ea30$8801be90$@sdf.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hello all,
>
> After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let it
> sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So
> what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some
> investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to
> require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that
> vintage browsers return an error similar to ?cannot establish secure
> connection?. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites
> have locked out many vintage machines.
>
> So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser
> that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4
> should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to
> include TLS 1.2.
>
> The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the web
> (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:09:15 -0500
> From: Sentrytv <sentrytv at yahoo.com>
> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org>
> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
> Message-ID: <C464DEB7-3DE0-40BA-94EA-2D1F8AC432BD at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8
>
> I had a Mac G5 tower that was running 10.58.
> I found a Mozilla browser for this OS and it was working pretty well.
>
> When I sold the tower about six months ago,
> of course the websites were working well.
> If I find the link for it I will post it.
>
> Mike R.
>
> Sent from:
> My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.
>
> > On Nov 12, 2018, at 1:08 AM, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic <
> vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let
> it sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So
> what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some
> investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to
> require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that
> vintage browsers return an error similar to ?cannot establish secure
> connection?. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites
> have locked out many vintage machines.
> >
> > So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser
> that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4
> should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to
> include TLS 1.2.
> >
> > The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the
> web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:21:13 -0500
> From: David Gesswein <djg at pdp8online.com>
> To: Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org>
> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
> Message-ID: <20181112122112.GA20797 at hugin2.pdp8online.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I assume you could run a local proxy that converts. It breaks the end
> to end security though. Businesses use these proxys for monitoring.
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 01:08:43AM -0500, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic
> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let
> it sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So
> what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some
> investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to
> require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that
> vintage browsers return an error similar to ???cannot establish secure
> connection???. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites
> have locked out many vintage machines.
> >
> > So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser
> that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4
> should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to
> include TLS 1.2.
> >
> > The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the
> web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:26:43 -0500 (EST)
> From: Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr at 757.org>
> To: David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic
>         <vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org>
> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1811121026100.26294 at users.757.org>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> >> The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the
> web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
>
> Maybe a proxy could be built that handles satisfying the TLS 1.2 then
> unwraps it for the old systems.
>
>                         - Ethan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:16:53 -0500
> From: "Jim Scheef" <js at sdf.org>
> To: "'vcf-midatlantic'" <vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org>
> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
> Message-ID: <003c01d47aa3$22f3adc0$68db0940$@sdf.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> David,
> I first posed this question on the Vintage Apple Macintosh Enthusiasts
> group
> on FB. Jason Duerstock commented: "It's not trivial, but I believe you're
> looking for something like this:
>
> https://serverfault.com/questions/822453/proxy-server-accepting-tls-1-0-and-
> calling-tls-1-2-downstream
> <https://serverfault.com/questions/822453/proxy-server-accepting-tls-1-0-and-calling-tls-1-2-downstream>
> Proxy server accepting TLS 1.0 and calling TLS
> 1.2 downstream"
> The documentation
> https://mitmproxy.readthedocs.io/en/v2.0.2/features/reverseproxy.html is
> easier to read.
> Seeing that we were quite happy using these sites without any encryption,
> the loss of end to end security seems inconsequential.
> The key words in Jason's comment were "It's not trivial..."
> Jim
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces at lists.vcfed.org> On
> Behalf
> Of
> > David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic
> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 7:21 AM
> > To: Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org>
> > Cc: David Gesswein <djg at pdp8online.com>
> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers
> >
> > I assume you could run a local proxy that converts. It breaks the end to
> end
> > security though. Businesses use these proxys for monitoring.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 01:08:43AM -0500, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic
> > wrote:
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let
> it sit
> > for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So what
> > changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some
> investigation I
> > realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to require TLS
> 1.2,
> mostly
> > because it actually works. The result is that vintage browsers return an
> error
> > similar to ???cannot establish secure connection???. Forcing SSL by
> refusing to
> > connect on port 80, these sites have locked out many vintage machines.
> > >
> > > So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser
> that
> > runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4 should
> run
> > on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to include TLS
> 1.2.
> > >
> > > The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the
> web
> > (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:25:41 -0500
> From: Drew Notarnicola <drew.notarnicola at gmail.com>
> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org>
> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Hello Introduction
> Message-ID:
>         <CAPP9A8GC7wxkvCF=O=+
> 30Ek_jw0vjZ0-uNOL1i0057EA4YBN8g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hey Tom! Nice to see a new name around here.  I'm not a ham but I am a
> Radio Shack Model 100 fan, so if you ever want to talk about those I'm your
> guy!  What did you use yours for back in the day?
> Drew
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 11:04 AM Tom McNicholas via vcf-midatlantic <
> vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org> wrote:
>
> > Evan suggested I post a hello and background  not sure of length or
> detail
> > is the norm,,  so here goes
> > Retired a few years ago  but still on the board of directors after a 45
> > year stint with a local electronics manufacturing company doing DOD work.
> > during the 45 years did everything from testing, QA, engineering and
> plant
> > manager  Prior to the 45 year stint was in the USAF working on VHF, UHF
> and
> > teaching then a couple of DOD manufacturing companies working on  SSB
> > transmitters, Radar, Sonar and microwave.,
> >
> > During the 70,s  at work  used the Apple II and later the Mac during the
> > 80,ss and at that time started using the commodore 64 and Radio Shack 100
> > at home latter moving to the 128  and then  building IBM  clones from
> parts
> > bought at computer shows. Now all I do is just buy them ,too many as per
> my
> > wife. .
> >
> > Presently have a small collection of vintage computers around 25 which I
> am
> > sure is nothing compared to other members of the group. But  I am looking
> > forward to meeting others in the group who share my interest in vintage
> > computers.
> >
> > My only other interests outside of family and grandchildren are short
> wave
> > radio and occasional riding on my Can Am trike.
> >
> > Regards
> > Tom McNicholas
> > Wall NJ
> >
>
>
> End of vcf-midatlantic Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12
> **********************************************
>


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