[vcf-midatlantic] What does Al Kossow have against VCF?
hjohnson at retrotechnology.info
Thu Aug 19 18:02:14 UTC 2021
On 8/19/2021 11:39 AM, Christian Liendo wrote:
> Please allow me to respectfully disagree, since I first posed the
> question. I need to explain more.
In a way, I thank you for your explanation in response to my post. It
reveals the logic you used in deciding to post, what amounts to your
personal opinions about individuals and organizations. And, you express
your sense of how other people and an organization "should" respond
about such things in a public discussion.
Now, in a way, this continues a public and *critical* discussion about a
private person's merits and actions. That's inappropriate on its face.
So I won't respond to points particular to a person or an organization.
I'll respond to the process and the reasoning, which were MY point in my
post, and in Christian's response. (I'll add one point specific to
VCFed-Midatlantic at the end.)
By "inappropriate", I mean this. The power of public discussion should
not be used as a platform to criticize individuals, subject them or
their actions to scrutiny. That doesn't (shouldn't) need much
explanation. Those who choose to do that, won't accept an explanation
anyway. But some Web searching on "trolls" and "discussion groups" will
Also, about "authority": who has the authority to decide in a public
way, if some person did something that merits "public trial"? To present
evidence and to ask leading questions - in public? And: does the
"accused" have a right or obligation to respond - or is it smarter to
simply ignore such discussions? Some study and experience says they
should ignore it. These considerations make the case against such public
discussions, as patently unfair.
Also: if someone with authority is indiscreet? Well, that should not be
an excuse to be indiscreet in response. But sometimes it's hard to
So, *privately*, if one wonders personally, why someone did or said
something? Well, a) is it any of their business? b) are they in any
position of power or authority to find out or judge? c) are they obliged
to take any actions? Some of Christian's comments, amount to these sort
For the most part, the simple answers for people who aren't involved or
responsible, are no, no, and no. One might argue, that if any response
appears to be of merit - yet one is NOT responsible for taking actions -
then MAYBE one can report the situation to those who ARE responsible.
That is, contact the potentially-injured party. Of course, that's also a
excuse for passing gossip. One must use some discretion.
Otherwise: if someone posts some criticism about some thing or practice
or activity, then discuss that subject or not on the merits - if there
are any. Not discuss the person.
One other thing. OK, two.
I asserted, neither Christian nor I have any special authority about
what is or is not to be discussed in this email list - that falls to the
owners of the list. I don't want to be repetitive or persistent; I'm
creating my own counter-productive example (!) but I have a point which
My point: I think there is one, mitigating circumstance, with this
VCFed-Midatlantic email list in particular; which would not be so in
other email lists. That is: this list is actively used by the
VCFed-Midatlantic, for discussions and actions of the organization
itself. And so, one such "action" could be: the operation of this email
list. Also: VCFed-Midatlantic by explicit by-laws, defines membership in
that organization, as "anyone who joins the mailing list".
So participants in this list, are members of the organization. So those
active in this list, have some claims for an interest, and for
responsibility. Maybe, something like that, suggested to Christian that
he was obliged to take certain actions. But - no "member" has any more
authority than any other. Only management has more authority, that is
And: on the matter of "being formal".
Now, I don't expect people, to engage in legalisms and formal logic and
complicated arguments. As a practical matter, then, here's why some
people try to post (the kind of stuff I'm talking about). They see it in
previous posts, from people who decide it's OK to post stuff like this.
Nobody objects. And then they see, people who respond (like me!); they
want to join in. Again: For those not familiar with these matters, do
some Web searching on "trolls", to find out why personalized discussions
are *a bad idea*; and why some people engage in it anyway.
I don't wanna be a troll, even about NOT being a troll. I posted my
objection; I made a case; I responded to the response. That's enough
from Herb Johnson, maybe too much.
regards, Herb Johnson
Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA
http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
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email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com
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