[vcf-midatlantic] Original Macintosh Architecture Questions

Jason Perkins perkins.jason at gmail.com
Sat Jun 26 03:56:38 UTC 2021


The IWM was used first on the Mac. The Lisa 1 and Lisa 2/5 have a MOS 6504
running the floppies, complete with its own ROM. On the later 2/10, this
was replaced with the IWM.

-J

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 10:07 PM David Riley via vcf-midatlantic <
vcf-midatlantic at lists.vcfed.org> wrote:

> On Jun 25, 2021, at 9:01 AM, John Heritage <john.heritage at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Wow!  Good articles and thanks David!  Since you mentioned you loved the
> original hardware design of the Mac, I hope you won't mind a few more
> questions..
> >
> > Interesting on the IWM making it to the Mac,  I knew that was a really
> innovative chip on the Apple II, but didn't realize it also was used in
> early Macs.
>
> The IWM was, essentially, an IC version of the Disk II controller (there
> are a few differences, but that's pretty close).  I think it came to the
> Mac first, since the Apple //e came after the Apple /// tanked, but I could
> have my timelines mixed up there.
>
> > What was the reason the PC used 9 sectors per track while the Mac and
> Amiga used 10/11 sectors per track each on the 3.5" floppies?  (I assume
> the ST defaulted to 9 sectors per track to stay compatible with DOS
> disks..)  Was it because the PC technically predated the original Mac and
> Amiga/ST and the early drives/disks were risky with higher densities?  Did
> Apple trade anything off for 400KB floppies in the Mac?
>
> The short answer is that 400/800K floppies used GCR encoding for their
> low-level format, while 360/720K (and also 1440K) floppies used MFM.
> They're just two different encoding methods; I don't think one is
> necessarily superior to another other than the fact that you can pack a
> little more space into a track with GCR encoding.  MFM was the defacto
> standard on the IBM side for floppies (it's what the original IBM floppy
> controllers supported), so when Apple added HD capability with the SWIM
> chip, they went with MFM to be compatible with PCs (thus also gaining
> compatibility with DD 360/720K disks).
>
> The "ISM" (Integrated Sander Machine, AFAICT, as that part was designed by
> Wendell Sander) portion of the SWIM was basically a new decoding machine
> that could handle both MFM and GCR with a lot of the same circuitry and
> state machines. It's really a brilliant design; you can read the SWIM chip
> design docs on the Archive somewhere if you're curious.  Really neat
> stuff.  Later SWIM chips dropped the IWM portion entirely, if memory
> serves, because the ISM worked well enough for both modes and didn't
> require the CPU overhead that the IWM did (mostly owing to the tradeoffs
> that made the Disk II controller such simple hardware; it's basically a
> step away from bit-banged).
>
> > Hardware wise, is it fair to say that the Mac probably cost less to
> manufacture in ~ 1985 than say the Amiga 1000 or Atari 520ST?    The Amiga
> had several custom chips, and even the ST seemed to have more ICs on board,
> though monitors were optional for both.  (I think in 1984 RAM was still
> very expensive so I can see why the 128KB Mac would be high, especially as
> an early adopter premium).   I always assumed the Mac premium was due to
> it's software library and 'brand' (at least in the US) at the time, but
> curious if there were any hardware reasons for the cost.
>
> I don't know if I'd say that... what the Amiga and ST cost in custom
> chips, the Mac probably made up for with rather expensive PALs, though they
> did at least use the mask-programmed version of them (HALs) once they'd
> finalized the design, which would have saved a fair amount at those
> volumes.  PALs were off the shelf, which made it much easier to prototype,
> but in volume, a custom chip can be cheaper.  I don't know the relative
> manufacturing prices, but I'd guess that the Mac cost a bit more to build
> with the CRT and supporting circuitry.
>
> Of course, there's an article about exactly this, too:
> https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Price_Fight.txt
>
> > Last question -- were there 'fast ram' upgrades for the original Macs
> (say pre-1990) that would allow the 68000 access to local memory for faster
> execution than RAM on the shared bus?  or did all RAM have to be shared?
>  It looks like the ram size limitations on the early Macs were relatively
> close to what the 68000 could do..
>
> The original Mac was a pretty simple machine; everything lived on the
> 68000 bus, for the most part (the 68000, as you may know, also had some
> special circuitry for directly addressing 6800-bus-compatible devices,
> which I think they used for the VIA and the Z8530 serial chip, possibly
> some others, but it was all still the same bus with some slightly different
> control signals).  I have a 128K with a Max II upgrade (pass-through board
> for the CPU socket that expanded RAM to 1MB and added Mac Plus-ish ROMs, we
> always called it a "Mac Minus" when I was growing up), but as far as I know
> the most you could really do to speed up the RAM on that system would be to
> shift the timings like the Classic did.
>
> The original 68K had a 24-bit address bus, so it could address up to 16MB,
> but not all of that could be RAM because you have to leave room for I/O
> devices and the ROM. Unlike Intel CPUs, the 68K didn't have the (IMO) silly
> notion of a separate I/O space, which really just involves a more complex
> chip select arrangement to add what amounts to one additional address bit,
> which can only be addressed with a separate, more limited set of
> instructions.  These days, even on PCs, most PCIe memory is mapped into
> main memory space, but PCI (and thus PCIe) still has the notion of I/O
> space because it still has to support legacy PC peripherals like the
> keyboard controller and serial ports that the architecture expect to be at
> I/O addresses.  Instead, like most other computers, all the I/O lives
> alongside the memory, and you need to make room for a reasonable amount of
> ROM, so 4MB wound up being the practical limit that you generally see in
> the Classic and SE, because then you can switch based on just the two high
> address bits.
>
> The RAM chips in the 128K were 16x 4164 (64k x 1 bit) which were
> relatively new at the time; the Apple II and II+ (effectively the same
> board) used the older 4116s, which required additional +12v and -5v
> supplies and tended to die fairly often, while the 4164 only required 5v
> and was 4x the RAM in the same footprint (reclaiming the two supply pins
> left room for an additional address pin, which is used for both row and
> column addresses).  The 512K swapped the 4164s for 41256s, which as you
> might guess are 256k x 1 bit; those used the other bonus pin for another
> address line. Later boards are dual-purpose with some stuffing options
> determining whether they're 128K or 512K (a few extra resistors and I think
> one more address pin multiplexer that's absent from the 128K board for the
> additional address bit).
>
> Later machines used 30-pin SIMMs, which made it a lot easier to pack more
> memory in a machine (the Max II board I mentioned is jam-packed full of ZIP
> memory chips, which were rather unpleasant things).  With a standard
> pinout, you can fit up to 16MB on a 30-pin SIMM, but it wouldn't have done
> much good for a machine with a 24-bit address bus, so the 68000 machines
> really only supported up to 1MB SIMMs (installed in pairs, because those
> are 8-bit SIMMs, which is why you never see a single 4MB SIMM on those
> machines).
>
> It wasn't until the II series and cousins (Quadras, LCs, etc) that you
> started seeing memory buses that were decoupled from the processor buses;
> the 68000 CPU bus was simple enough you could lash everything to it with
> some PALs (still more complex than the 6800/6502-style bus of the Apple II,
> but only just), but the later buses got much faster and more complex,
> requiring custom ASICs to interface (not to mention the variety of
> expansion interfaces, particularly NuBus, which also required complex
> adaptation).
>
>
> - Dave
>
>

-- 
Jason Perkins
313 355 0085


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