- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Maker Faire this year
by Evan Koblentz 23 May '19

23 May '19

> > the ELF membership card. I have the former, and I'm willing to lend > but the latter I'm sure someone else has on hand. > > http://www.sunrise-ev.com/membershipcard.htm > > For those not familiar: The 1802 Membership Card is a reasonable > replica to consider. It's pretty close in design, to the original 1976 > RCA COSMAC ELF. It's part of a long tradition of ELF-like systems sold > over the decades. It has toggle switches and LEDs, like the original; > all parts are like-vintage. And it's not hard to build, it's sold as a > kit with how-to-assemble manual. > > All of that, is a deliberate effort to replicate the vintage experience. > > This model been in distribution for several years now. Interest is > steady, people work with them in the ELF/COSMAC community. > > I can provide one for display, but I can't be there to run it. In > operation, you either run it from a serial terminal (USB dongle to a > laptop), or toggle-in programs and run those (blink lights, make > sounds if there's a speaker, etc.), or run from ROM. The ROM runs a > monitor, or BASIC, or of course any program in ROM. Fair enough -- yes we'd like to borrow that. Can you make (or refer us to) a cheat-sheet with some simple demo instructions?

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT Atari 800 key caps needed and Commodore VIC 20 case.
by Jason Howe 23 May '19

23 May '19

Call Brad at Best Electronics. He has key caps in Stock. He will ask a few questions about your keyboard as there were three different keyboard mechanisms used on the OG 800. --Jason On May 23, 2019 10:59:55 AM PDT, Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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OT Atari 800 key caps needed and Commodore VIC 20 case.
by Sentrytv 23 May '19

23 May '19

To all on this list: I am looking for a Commodore VIC 20 case (top & bottom) I have a working system but no case right now. ALSO I am looking for key caps "X" and " ]." for an Atari 800 computer. Please contact me if you have one or all of these, for sale or trade. Also, I will be at the workshop in June. Thank you Mike Rosen Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] New info about ol' MOBIDIC
by Evan Koblentz 23 May '19

23 May '19

>> sure some did call it MOBOL, was Sylvania part of RCA at this point? Nope On Thu, May 23, 2019, 6:46 AM Ben Greenfield via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > On May 23, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > Many of you know that my second-favorite computer -- the Apple //e is my > favorite -- is MOBIDIC. I wrote in my book ("Abacus to smartphone" in 2015) > that Sylvania gave it a COBOL compiler. Tonight I found a document that > goes into detail about that compiler. I learned that Sylvania called the > compiler "MOBILE", although it would've been much funnier if they called it > MOBOL, don't you think? :) > > I’m sure some did call it MOBOL, was Sylvania part of RCA at this point? > > > > Pages 4-1, 4-2, and 4-3 (pages 11, 12, 13 of the .pdf) explain the > programs that they wrote. Read all about it at > https://ia902808.us.archive.org/27/items/DTIC_AD0406874/DTIC_AD0406874.pdf > . > > Thanks for sharing. Archive.org is the closet thing I have experienced > that reminds most of the pre-graphics internet or just after mosaic hit. > > Thank you for sharing, > > Ben > > > > >

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New info about ol' MOBIDIC
by Evan Koblentz 23 May '19

23 May '19

Many of you know that my second-favorite computer -- the Apple //e is my favorite -- is MOBIDIC. I wrote in my book ("Abacus to smartphone" in 2015) that Sylvania gave it a COBOL compiler. Tonight I found a document that goes into detail about that compiler. I learned that Sylvania called the compiler "MOBILE", although it would've been much funnier if they called it MOBOL, don't you think? :) Pages 4-1, 4-2, and 4-3 (pages 11, 12, 13 of the .pdf) explain the programs that they wrote. Read all about it at https://ia902808.us.archive.org/27/items/DTIC_AD0406874/DTIC_AD0406874.pdf.

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Who's an ACM member?
by Evan Koblentz 23 May '19

23 May '19

I need to read a paper from 1978: https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1198367

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Hayes 1200
by Mike Loewen 22 May '19

22 May '19

The most expensive Hayes modem, ever! https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hayes-Smartmodem-1200-with-Power-Supply/2026859300… Free shipping, too. :-) Mike Loewen mloewen(a)cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 22 May '19

22 May '19

Interesting day. I arrived around 11:30 and caught the end of the IEEE milestone plaque ceremony at the Diana/TIROS site. Then I did some museum maintenance for a while. One visitor distinguished herself: an IEEE local section officer who stayed for a thorough tour. Turns out she once worked with Isaac Asimov!

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Maker Faire this year
by Evan Koblentz 22 May '19

22 May '19

Yes please -- Kenbak! On Wed, May 22, 2019, 12:46 PM Alexander Pierson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Two machines come to mind:The uKENBAK-1 and the ELF membership card. I > have the former, and I'm willing to lend that, but the latter I'm sure > someone else has on hand. > -Alexander 'Z' Pierson > > > On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 11:24:56 PM EDT, Evan Koblentz via > vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > Everyone, > > This year's idea for our World (NYC) Maker Faire exhibit is > replicas/workalikes. > > The registration opens next month, so for now this is conceptual. > Me/Dean/Jeff/Corey are planning it behind-the-scenes. > > We will bring: > > - Replica 1 (Not a Mimeo, because the former is hobbyist-friendly; > latter is for true aficionados) > > - Altair Mini > > - PiDP > > - Kim Uno > > - Commodore Mini > > - Glitchworks 8085 > > - Atari Flashback (maybe) > > Two questions: > > - Does anyone have Oscar's PDP-11/70, and if so are you willing to loan > it to us or (better yet) exhibit it personally at the event? > > - What other replica hardware should we consider for this exhibit? > > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: NJARC YouTube
by Alex Duboski 21 May '19

21 May '19

Done

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DC area people: Fwd: Vintage Computer Books
by Evan Koblentz 21 May '19

21 May '19

See below. Reply directly to Gerald, NOT to this list. PS. Attachments don't work well here, so I put his books photo at https://tinyurl.com/y5lc3af7. Nothing that the VCF museum needs. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Vintage Computer Books Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 21:35:38 -0400 (EDT) From: GERALD TERLITZKY <gterlitzky06(a)comcast.net> Reply-To: GERALD TERLITZKY <gterlitzky06(a)comcast.net> To: evan(a)vcfed.org Good Evening, I found your name on the VCF Museum site by accident. I have a friend that develop Parkinson disease 5 years ago and I had to put him into an assisted living facility. He work as an computer operator for the Washington Gas Light company back in the 70's. I've been cleaning his house out for the past 6 weeks. He has a collection of computer books around 100 total. I'm attaching a picture of books in his library. I would like to sell them all, but I'm located in Bowie Maryland. Maybe you might know someone in the Washington Metro area that you can suggest for me to contact. All the funds that I make goes towards his living expense. Sincerely, Gerald Terlitzky

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Scopewriter Issue Resolved.
by Herb Johnson 20 May '19

20 May '19

> It’s interesting how many of the hobby designed products from the mod 70’s have marginal aspects to their designs. Whenever anyone recreates or restores any old electronic device, it often can be a tricky problem to determine whether a problem is introduced or original to the design > > regards, > Mike Willegal The very earliest microcomputers or microprocessor-based things from the early to mid-1970's, were often designed by people new to microprocessors and/or TTL logic. Some of course (TV Typewriter) were all TTL logic. The very earliest microprocessors needed odd voltages and timings. So some of the logic design was a bit, er, funky. A common practice was to use a resistor/capacitor circuit (R/C circuit) to create timing delays, or turn level-shifts into pulses. These don't age well, and didn't work well when new. The IMSAI front panel has a couple of these. Also, "straight" TTL draws a lot of current; later LSTTL and much later ALSTTL draws less current and is faster. Early CMOS was challenging too. Things got better, later on. And some brands (Compupro, etc.) produced pretty solid designs from the start. These are restorer's considerations which aren't documented. It's part of the fun, in my opinion. Notably, Herb Johnson Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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For Sale/Trade: AMD 5x86 DOS PC
by Vincent B 20 May '19

20 May '19

Looking to part with a "Baby AT" AMD 5x86 DOS PC that's been in my closet unused for a few years. Specs are as follows: 486 VLB system in a mini tower: Case has 2 x 5.25" slots and 2 x 3.5" slots. Includes 1.44 and 1.2MB floppies, IDE CDROM (have not checked if it reads CDR's and it is easily replaceable). Power, Turbo, Reset buttons, LED speed indicator (set to 133 and 8mhz currently) Hint 486 motherboard with 2 VLB slots (both used) and ISA A coin battery holder has been installed after the rechargeable one was removed (mounted on case wall for easy access) Evergreen CPU upgrade AMD 5X86-133 P75 X5 (its an AMD 486/133 surface mount CPU with jumper configurations and a small heatsink no fan runs very cool) 32MB RAM (8x4MB 30 pin SIMMS) Seagate ST 51080A 1083MB HD, no bad sectors. 1993 STB VLB Horizon video card (1MB I think CL-GD5426). CT28040 SB16 sound card 3COM Etherlink II/16TP Ethernet card VLB HD I/O card Looking to either sell it outright or trade it for an Atari ST. Contact me off-list to make a deal. <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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Museum Report 2019-05-19
by Jeffrey Brace 19 May '19

19 May '19

We still had visitors in spite of the nice weather. A father and his college-age daughter came in and he explained how modems worked to connect to other computers. She seemed perplexed. In the "Everything on this wall now fits into your pocket" display, the daughter couldn't identify the fax machine or digital answering machine, but she identified the Magellan GPS navigator. I like to quiz "younger" people on what the devices are in the display to see how they are unrecognizable to the younger generation. The next visitors were grandparents with their grandson of about 11 years old. I had him type in a short BASIC program on the C64 with the bouncing ball. He liked it so much that he recorded it on his iPhone. He typed it in pretty well, but I had to help him debug it. Then two couples with high interest. One of them did a picture on deluxe paint and took a picture of his masterpiece. -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President Vintage Computer Federation <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Help with installing 1980s DOS program
by Devin Heitmueller 19 May '19

19 May '19

Hi Herb, On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:16 AM Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Evan is correct. That is, this user wants what he wants for the reasons > Evan stated; and not as Devin speculated. This caught my attention, > because I resell old Macintosh computer parts and systems. "Old" as in > 68K and PowerPC based, 1980's and 1990's. <snip> Fair enough. I've done my share of maintaining legacy equipment when I was working at the Bell Labs EMC lab, where the computers running the test chambers were considered to be "calibrated equipment" and thus had to be 10+ year old AT&T PCs. I can appreciate the cases where this sort of thing would be necessary. I wouldn't have assumed this to be the case for a lawyer, since most of the ones I know have to share documents electronically with others (or have paralegals that weren't alive in the 1980's that they expect to be able to edit documents), and thus wouldn't still be using ancient word processors. That said, supposedly George R.R. Martin writes his books on WordStar, so I guess anything's possible. Cheers, Devin -- Devin J. Heitmueller http://www.devinheitmueller.com

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Scopewriter Issue Resolved.
by MikeWillegal 18 May '19

18 May '19

I finally found time to properly debug the Scopewriter issue that I have been having. This was noticed by many visiting my VCF east exhibit. Basically, with certain strings being displayed, the string would randomly change. I found that the issue was inherent with the Scopewriter itself, and didn’t have anything to do with the SCELBI interface. The Scopewriter uses a TMS3112 shift register a little bit like an Apple 1 or TV Typewriter to refresh display data. It turns out that the hold time of the low level phase of the clock wasn’t meeting the TMS3112 specs causing the recycled data to be occasionally lost. Changing capacitor C2 to a .1uF value increased the amount of time of the clock being held at low level and solved the problem. It’s interesting how many of the hobby designed products from the mod 70’s have marginal aspects to their designs. Whenever anyone recreates or restores any old electronic device, it often can be a tricky problem to determine whether a problem is introduced or original to the design regards, Mike Willegal

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Connecticut auction tomorrow
by Evan Koblentz 18 May '19

18 May '19

Just heard about this: https://www.auctionzip.com/Listings/3270964.html

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Help with installing 1980s DOS program
by Neil Cherry 17 May '19

17 May '19

I know of Banks that hadn't stopped using IBM bisync equipment around 2000, I know of a large concrete company who still had DECnet (LAST and LAT) by 2005, a chemical company who has finally gotten rid of the PUP and XNS (not Novell) but still had DECNet LAT by 2010 and a Aluminum Company with DEC LAT and HP Bridging in 2011. I know many of the companies have a plan to migrate but they're milking the 'paid for' tech until they migrate. I'm a bit guilty of holding out, I learned Emacs in 1978 on a keyboard where you needed to know your ASCII to generate control sequences (CR - ^M, LF -^J, TAB - ^I, BS - ^H etc.). And since I learned to type on a typewritter, I do not know of this Enter you speak of. ;-) Oh, and they've changed the Windows applications (yet again) so the old key strokes no longer get you to the features directly. And the way they've hidden the features I need ... well I'm resorting to returning to nroff. ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Help with installing 1980s DOS program
by Dean Notarnicola 17 May '19

17 May '19

I agree that it's imperative for us to help keep older systems alive and documented, for historic reasons, as well as to aid someone like this gentlemen who simply wants to continue working as usual. However, in these cases, I put on my IT hat and feel a responsibility to inform them of a data migration plan. Circumstances could prevent usage of the older systems, and data recovery may become challenging or near impossible. Users don't always think ahead to a point where they are not around and someone left behind may need access to what could be valuable information. I've seen it too often. On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:35 AM Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Herb, you have described a good portion of my life with computers. Putting > aside my interaction with the Phreak/Crack scene in the early to mid 80s, > much of my life has been spent as a User, not a programmer. > I was 14 or so using Money Street on the Apple II to reconcile the > Checking accounts for our boats for the accountant. I used it till probably > 1990 or so, dot matrix printer and all. I could still use it today! > > I had an SE/30 running as a file server until the early 2000s, the list of > machines I’ve used for a decade or more after their discontinuation is long. > > They were a toy when I was 10 and got my first one (Apple II) in 1978. > They were both a tool and a toy from the time I was 12 or 13 right up to > the present. I certainly do more things in today’s world with my modern > machines than I did in the past (webdesign, app Dev, etc) but at my daily > job running my business I still run some software from 10 years ago and > more because it just works, doing the same job it did more than a decade > ago. Meanwhile I have modern machines and software working as well. > > Tony >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Help with installing 1980s DOS program
by Tony Bogan 17 May '19

17 May '19

Herb, you have described a good portion of my life with computers. Putting aside my interaction with the Phreak/Crack scene in the early to mid 80s, much of my life has been spent as a User, not a programmer. I was 14 or so using Money Street on the Apple II to reconcile the Checking accounts for our boats for the accountant. I used it till probably 1990 or so, dot matrix printer and all. I could still use it today! I had an SE/30 running as a file server until the early 2000s, the list of machines I’ve used for a decade or more after their discontinuation is long. They were a toy when I was 10 and got my first one (Apple II) in 1978. They were both a tool and a toy from the time I was 12 or 13 right up to the present. I certainly do more things in today’s world with my modern machines than I did in the past (webdesign, app Dev, etc) but at my daily job running my business I still run some software from 10 years ago and more because it just works, doing the same job it did more than a decade ago. Meanwhile I have modern machines and software working as well. Tony

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Help with installing 1980s DOS program
by Sentrytv 17 May '19

17 May '19

Can't blame these people. Newer versions of software require newer OS, hardware, or peripherals. "If it ain't broke don't fix it!" I have several older systems that I almost never use, but I can if I need to, with older software I have. Mainly older DOS and windows games. Besides I never throw anything out! Mike R. Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > On May 17, 2019, at 11:00 AM, Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > <mime-attachment>

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Help with installing 1980s DOS program
by Evan Koblentz 17 May '19

17 May '19

>> there's no intrinsic (look it up) Why would you think we don't know that word? On Fri, May 17, 2019, 11:09 AM Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > Devin Heitmueller: I would assume there's a good chance that the user > isn't so much > > interested in using an ancient word processor for nostalgia, but > > rather to gain access to some old documents. > > > > Evan Koblentz: Nope. He refuses to upgrade! He had it running for eons > on XP, then that > > went haywire, so he was desperate for someone to get it back running for > > him. > > Evan is correct. That is, this user wants what he wants for the reasons > Evan stated; and not as Devin speculated. This caught my attention, > because I resell old Macintosh computer parts and systems. "Old" as in > 68K and PowerPC based, 1980's and 1990's. > > While many of my customers are just playing with old Macs for nostalgia, > or for non-use interest; a good number of them are "desperately" trying > to keep their original, now-vintage systems running with now-vintage > software. > > Why? 1) they have a stable environment, which they learned to use. It > supported their line of business or work for decades. It still does. So > there's no intrinsic (look it up) reason to change. > > 2) "modern" programs on modern computers add complexity or undesired > features. The MS-DOS environment was either pure command-line, or used > an 80 X 24 text display (in color sometimes) and "escape sequences" on > the keyboard to navigate that screen. Or, yeah, a mouse. For touch > typists, and for users who do repetitive work, keystrokes are faster > than a mouse. Oh - and no networking needed. > > 2a) Some modern equivalents of now-vintage programs, can't do what the > old programs did. Or they do something different. That's annoying to > persons who find it hard to change their established habits. It's more > than annoying, when you don't get the results you want from a "new" > program. The forms look wrong, the images aren't the same, the > calculations aren't the same. Sometimes that matters. > > From a business point of view, they would find it hard to rework > "scripts" and forms to perform the same tasks. Or worse, hard to find > someone able to both understand the "old" and provide the "new". *And*, > provide patient training and support, to the now-new user of this new > set of hardware, operating system, software... on and on. > > I don't offer any of that service, by the way. And many of these > customers know, if they try to go the "replace everything" route, they > will be abandoned with new stuff that won't work for them; and old stuff > that's now "broken" and doesn't work either. In short: total failure. > That's their view, and who am I to argue otherwise? Without offering to > fix it? > > 2b) For some who use their computers with embedded equipment - say a > mass spectrometer - they *can't* change the programming. Or possibly > they can't change the hardware interface, or internal bus-hardware card > (NuBus in the case of desktop Macs, ISA for old PC's, etc.) > > 3) Given the decades of use so far, these users simply want to run the > clock out. They will retire soon; why make efforts to change everything, > only to walk away from it a few years from now? And when the new-person > will simply abandon whatever they've left behind, most likely? "We don't > do that anymore, it was obsolete and the person retired." > > You-all should get the idea, at this point. For many people, use of a > computer was yet another part of the "mechanics" of doing their job or > running their business or service. They weren't programmers. Changing > programs and computers, was simply not necessary, for a stable service. > And believe it or not, there are still niche businesses, and > long-running equipment, where "stability" is more important than "new". > And where "new" doesn't necessarily mean "better". > > Many of you reading all this, if you haven't stopped already, have > decided this is dead-end thinking, old-people who lack flexibility, or > just incomprehensible. I only bothered to post it, because, well, this > is a list about vintage computing, right? You are interested in vintage > computers, right? Do-ya-THINK, some people used these for *purpose* at > some time? And if so, maybe some people *still* use them for purpose, now? > > And, even so, it's worth preserving how and why these computers and > programs were used. It's already largely forgotten. But that's another > discussion. > > regards, > Herb Johnson > > > > -- > Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA > http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net > preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing > email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com > or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info >

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Help with installing 1980s DOS program
by Herb Johnson 17 May '19

17 May '19

> Devin Heitmueller: I would assume there's a good chance that the user isn't so much > interested in using an ancient word processor for nostalgia, but > rather to gain access to some old documents. > > Evan Koblentz: Nope. He refuses to upgrade! He had it running for eons on XP, then that > went haywire, so he was desperate for someone to get it back running for > him. Evan is correct. That is, this user wants what he wants for the reasons Evan stated; and not as Devin speculated. This caught my attention, because I resell old Macintosh computer parts and systems. "Old" as in 68K and PowerPC based, 1980's and 1990's. While many of my customers are just playing with old Macs for nostalgia, or for non-use interest; a good number of them are "desperately" trying to keep their original, now-vintage systems running with now-vintage software. Why? 1) they have a stable environment, which they learned to use. It supported their line of business or work for decades. It still does. So there's no intrinsic (look it up) reason to change. 2) "modern" programs on modern computers add complexity or undesired features. The MS-DOS environment was either pure command-line, or used an 80 X 24 text display (in color sometimes) and "escape sequences" on the keyboard to navigate that screen. Or, yeah, a mouse. For touch typists, and for users who do repetitive work, keystrokes are faster than a mouse. Oh - and no networking needed. 2a) Some modern equivalents of now-vintage programs, can't do what the old programs did. Or they do something different. That's annoying to persons who find it hard to change their established habits. It's more than annoying, when you don't get the results you want from a "new" program. The forms look wrong, the images aren't the same, the calculations aren't the same. Sometimes that matters. From a business point of view, they would find it hard to rework "scripts" and forms to perform the same tasks. Or worse, hard to find someone able to both understand the "old" and provide the "new". *And*, provide patient training and support, to the now-new user of this new set of hardware, operating system, software... on and on. I don't offer any of that service, by the way. And many of these customers know, if they try to go the "replace everything" route, they will be abandoned with new stuff that won't work for them; and old stuff that's now "broken" and doesn't work either. In short: total failure. That's their view, and who am I to argue otherwise? Without offering to fix it? 2b) For some who use their computers with embedded equipment - say a mass spectrometer - they *can't* change the programming. Or possibly they can't change the hardware interface, or internal bus-hardware card (NuBus in the case of desktop Macs, ISA for old PC's, etc.) 3) Given the decades of use so far, these users simply want to run the clock out. They will retire soon; why make efforts to change everything, only to walk away from it a few years from now? And when the new-person will simply abandon whatever they've left behind, most likely? "We don't do that anymore, it was obsolete and the person retired." You-all should get the idea, at this point. For many people, use of a computer was yet another part of the "mechanics" of doing their job or running their business or service. They weren't programmers. Changing programs and computers, was simply not necessary, for a stable service. And believe it or not, there are still niche businesses, and long-running equipment, where "stability" is more important than "new". And where "new" doesn't necessarily mean "better". Many of you reading all this, if you haven't stopped already, have decided this is dead-end thinking, old-people who lack flexibility, or just incomprehensible. I only bothered to post it, because, well, this is a list about vintage computing, right? You are interested in vintage computers, right? Do-ya-THINK, some people used these for *purpose* at some time? And if so, maybe some people *still* use them for purpose, now? And, even so, it's worth preserving how and why these computers and programs were used. It's already largely forgotten. But that's another discussion. regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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FYI: Interesting event at InfoAge
by Evan Koblentz 17 May '19

17 May '19

This Saturday from 10am-noon the IEEE is dedicating a plaque at the Diana site (location of the big satellite dish, a few hundred yards down the road from the main campus). The event is open to all. Unfortunately I can't be there until 11ish.

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Post-VCF East show survey
by Evan Koblentz 16 May '19

16 May '19

Everyone: please take a few minutes to complete our show survey. It's a (somewhat) analytical way for us to know what was awesome, what was so-so, and what we did wrong: https://bit.ly/2ZLuz0A

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Didn't get a VCF East 2019 t-shirt? And still want one?
by Jeffrey Brace 14 May '19

14 May '19

We sold out of many sizes and some people still wanted t-shirts (actually almost all sizes). I will be ordering again soon, so if you want a VCF East t-shirt and didn't get one, then send me a private reply with the quantity and size and I will make sure that you get it. -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President Vintage Computer Federation

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Help with installing 1980s DOS program
by Evan Koblentz 14 May '19

14 May '19

Someone posted on my local Facebook town page in need of ordinary PC support. I replied because that stuff is usually quite easy to fix -- easy/quick cash on the side, or so I thought!! Turns out it's an elderly attorney running a mid-1980s DOS version of Leading Edge Word Processor installed on Windows XP. Seriously????? The problem was it keeps giving him an error message about unable to read drive a: (3.5") even when he's not trying to use that drive. The error pops up randomly and prevents him from continuing to use the program. I confirmed that the drive reads/writes fine. Rather than trying to chase down an inconsistent bug, he asked me if he can dump Windows and just run the program under straight DOS. Okay, sure. I figured it would be fun to do this even if the guy wasn't paying me. After all, if I don't promote semi-vintage computing then who will? :) I downloaded DOS 6.22 at home and put the image files onto disks via a USB floppy drive. Went to install that on an old PC that I happened to have, and it gave errors about lack of memory space when I ran setup, which is bizarre but whatever .... I downloaded version 5.0 instead and that installed without any trouble (not counting one damaged disk; I used another disk and it worked that time). So now I've got a bare-metal DOS 5.0 installation on an older PC for this guy. His son pointed me to the word processor program at an abandonware site (I put a copy of the files at http://snarc.net/lewp/ if anybody wants to play along at home). I copied the files onto a disk via DOSbox (thanks to Dean for the tip to use emulation there!). The files read/write fine on the DOS computer. Currently I'm stumped at how to install this program on the computer. I copied them all into the same directory structure on the DOS computer. The install.bat file requires a second floppy drive, which I don't have but I am getting one tomorrow. (Local FB marketplace seller has another external USB floppy drive for eight bucks.) I have two questions: 1. Is there a way around needing a second drive? 2. If the second drive is required, is it even the correct procedure to just run the install.bat or must I do something else to install the program?

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DEC CR-11 at auction
by Mike Loewen 14 May '19

14 May '19

DEC CR-11 card reader at the usual auction site: https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEC-CR-11-Documation-M200-Card-Reader/202677568290 No affiliation with the sale. Mike Loewen mloewen(a)cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

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BK 467 CRT rejuvenator calibration question
by corey cohen 14 May '19

14 May '19

I posted this on the VCF forum but got nothing in replies. So I just recapped my new to me BK467 and easily calibrated the Heater voltage. This is my last step to clear my workbench off for a new project arriving later this week. Next up on the BK467 is the tracking range calibration. The service manual I got online isn’t very clear. After hooking up the resistor and warming the unit up in setup mode, it says to put the 467 into test mode, adjust the G2 red control till it reads full scale on the meter. I assume that means when it's at 2.0 (all the way to the right)? Then it says while pressing the tracking button and adjust R23 until it reads the minimum setting. Does this mean 0 on the meter or at the "set tracking mark". I can't adjust R23 any lower than .2 on the meter so I'm hoping it's not supposed to be set to 0. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone

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Monochrome and VGA together?
by Richard Cini 14 May '19

14 May '19

All — I’m working on another project (with an early version of Windows) and for debugging on my AT, I need to run both a monochrome and EGA/VGA together. I’m quite rusty on this because I remember doing this long ago but it might be pre-VGA. Is this possible? Thanks! Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

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paging Glenn Roberts
by Evan Koblentz 13 May '19

13 May '19

Please check you Gmail for a private message from me. -- Evan Koblentz, executive director Vintage Computer Federation www.vcfed.org evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 VCF is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization

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Northstar floating point BASIC (S-100)
by Herb Johnson 13 May '19

13 May '19

Anyone know where to find Northstar's BASIC FPB software, which used Northstar's floating-point S-100 board? I think versions 5 and 6 used the FPB. The manual is available; the software itself seems hard to find. Thanks. binary regards, Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Museum Report 2019-05-12
by Jeffrey Brace 12 May '19

12 May '19

Not much going on here today. It's Mother's Day and it's pouring rain all day, so not much to report. InfoAge and many museums closed at 4PM. -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President Vintage Computer Federation

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 11 May '19

11 May '19

Slow-ish day: I think everyone was out enjoying the good weather. Evan Koblentz Executive Director, Vintage Computer Federation evan(a)vcfed.org / (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org @vcfederation

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Sony tape library parts available
by Richard Cini 11 May '19

11 May '19

All – While cleaning up, I found a few parts for a Sony AIT162 AIT tape library that I no longer have. I have a power supply, two drives and I think a box of tapes. If interested for the cost of shipping (US only) please contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

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VCF East pictures, please!
by Evan Koblentz 10 May '19

10 May '19

Post 'em, we all want to see!!

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Anybody want a Commodore 65?
by Evan Koblentz 10 May '19

10 May '19

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223509001295

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Anybody want a Commodore 65?
by Chris Fala 10 May '19

10 May '19

That’s actually about right for that. But yes, nuts. On May 10, 2019, at 5:47 PM, Sentrytv <sentrytv(a)yahoo.com> wrote: That's nuts! Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > On May 10, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223509001295 >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Anybody want a Commodore 65?
by Andy Diller 10 May '19

10 May '19

Oh snap. I accidentally clicked on the buy it now button...... - andy diller > On May 10, 2019, at 5:47 PM, Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > <mime-attachment>

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Apple 1 auction, Christie's London
by Andy Meyer 10 May '19

10 May '19

FYI http://artdaily.com/news/113435/The-first-Apple-Computer-leads--On-the-Shou… Cheers, Andy

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: how to end an email, in Europe
by Chris Fala 10 May '19

10 May '19

I learned that on eBay of all places. Good tip, Herb. Kind regards, Chris On May 9, 2019, at 10:21 PM, Herb Johnson <hjohnson(a)retrotechnology.info> wrote: So today, I was corresponding with a stranger in Ireland. He had the impression I was upset with our correspondence. I wasn't sure what the issue was, maybe my use of capital letters at some point. However, he informed me as an afterthought, as follows: > Herb a last point, if you care, which maybe you don’t. To sign off a communique, whether written or electronic, with just your name, is considered an expression of great anger in Europe. :-) Kind regards > [his name] I had ended my email, as I often do, with my name alone; no closing social honorific or salutation or whatever it's called. (Extra points for identifying this convention.) This was entirely new to me. But I'm wondering, is this a true social convention, or simply something limited to certain social classes in Ireland, or in between? And so it occurred to me, my friends in this list, may have such experiences, and can comment accordingly on this bit of email etiquette. Meanwhile, it's worth a try. Warm regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Northstar floating point BASIC (S-100)
by Mike Loewen 10 May '19

10 May '19

On May 9, 2019, at 11:16 PM, Herb Johnson wrote: > Anyone know where to find Northstar's BASIC FPB software, which used > Northstar's floating-point S-100 board? I think versions 5 and 6 used the > FPB. The manual is available; the software itself seems hard to find. > Thanks. > > binary regards, > Herb According to the manifest, disks 10 and 11 on this page have FPBASIC: http://deramp.com/downloads/altair/software/north_star_floppy_controllers/d… Mike Loewen mloewen(a)cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

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Laugh, it's funny
by Evan Koblentz 10 May '19

10 May '19

Last month I shared this story with a few of you privately. Now I've decided it is safe to post. :) During the VCF East planning, I asked Thompson when exactly in 1969 he started working on the disk program that became Unix (cited at 21:25 in this video: https://tinyurl.com/y55g2puu) ... he told me he didn't remember, but "I leave it to you to invent a date." That's a lot of pressure! :)

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: how to end an email, in Europe
by Dean Notarnicola 10 May '19

10 May '19

I can say that, in email communications with European and Japanese colleagues, a salutation and closing is expected, regardless of the level of formality. I have experienced this even with texts and instant messages, although not as often. So it appears to be a common convention there, and largely lost in domestic exchanges. On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 10:23 PM Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > So today, I was corresponding with a stranger in Ireland. He had the > impression I was upset with our correspondence. I wasn't sure what the > issue was, maybe my use of capital letters at some point. However, he > informed me as an afterthought, as follows: > > > Herb a last point, if you care, which maybe you don’t. To sign off a > communique, whether written or electronic, with just your name, is > considered an expression of great anger in Europe. :-) > > > > > > Kind regards > > [his name] > > > I had ended my email, as I often do, with my name alone; no closing > social honorific or salutation or whatever it's called. (Extra points > for identifying this convention.) > > This was entirely new to me. But I'm wondering, is this a true social > convention, or simply something limited to certain social classes in > Ireland, or in between? And so it occurred to me, my friends in this > list, may have such experiences, and can comment accordingly on this bit > of email etiquette. Meanwhile, it's worth a try. > > Warm regards, > Herb Johnson > > > -- > Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA > http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net > preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing > email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com > or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info > > -- > Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA > http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net > preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing > email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com > or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info >

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OT: how to end an email, in Europe
by Herb Johnson 10 May '19

10 May '19

So today, I was corresponding with a stranger in Ireland. He had the impression I was upset with our correspondence. I wasn't sure what the issue was, maybe my use of capital letters at some point. However, he informed me as an afterthought, as follows: > Herb a last point, if you care, which maybe you don’t. To sign off a communique, whether written or electronic, with just your name, is considered an expression of great anger in Europe. :-) > > > Kind regards > [his name] I had ended my email, as I often do, with my name alone; no closing social honorific or salutation or whatever it's called. (Extra points for identifying this convention.) This was entirely new to me. But I'm wondering, is this a true social convention, or simply something limited to certain social classes in Ireland, or in between? And so it occurred to me, my friends in this list, may have such experiences, and can comment accordingly on this bit of email etiquette. Meanwhile, it's worth a try. Warm regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Amiga stuff available in Albany
by Evan Koblentz 10 May '19

10 May '19

The usual rules: owner is NOT on this list, so reply to her directly not here. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Amiga hardware and software Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 11:32:01 -0400 From: Suzanne MacKay <ssmac50(a)gmail.com> To: Evan Koblentz <evan(a)vcfed.org> NEver heard from any Albany area folks interested in my Amiga/software stash, let them know we prefer to DOnate/gift them rather than put them in a landfill. They powerup bet we could not fond cords to connect with monitors so we assume the still function as they were when we moved and put into storage. On Tue, Apr 16, 2019, 2:23 PM Evan Koblentz <evan(a)vcfed.org <mailto:evan@vcfed.org>> wrote: Suzanne, Thank you for reaching out to us. We have some members in the Albany area. I'll forward your message to them. -- Evan Koblentz, executive director Vintage Computer Federation www.vcfed.org <http://www.vcfed.org> evan(a)vcfed.org <mailto:evan@vcfed.org> (646) 546-9999 VCF is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. On 4/16/19 12:19 PM, Suzanne MacKay wrote: > Have 200 and 3000 want to remove as no longer in use. Would you all > know a collector who might be interested? > > We live outside Albany NY

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Our newest computer
by Evan Koblentz 09 May '19

09 May '19

One of the VCF East consigners, David W., gave us an Eagle IIe computer. I tried it today. It fired right up into CP/M 2.2. Keyboard works and one drive works. Didn't have time to try the second drive. I gently cleaned off its top layer of dirt with a baby wipe.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum info kiosk question
by jaj＠totallyamused.com 09 May '19

09 May '19

>There is a small issue I've been unable to duplicate on demand. >Sometimes, if you touch our logo on the content pages just right, it >OpenKiosk browser opens our logo as a new page (same tab). Maybe it is a byproduct of two-finger touch or multi touch gesturing being enabled? I had a similar issue with some iPads I deployed into a retail store environment a couple of years ago

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 09 May '19

09 May '19

It was nice to have a regular day after all the VCF East action. We had about a half-dozen visitors today, I cleaned up some things in the museum, etc. .... tranquility! -- Evan Koblentz, executive director Vintage Computer Federation www.vcfed.org evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 VCF is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization

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IEEE on V C F East.
by Christian Liendo 08 May '19

08 May '19

https://spectrum.ieee.org/video/geek-life/history/great-computers-never-die

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