- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Insanely OT: anyone got a cheap car for sale?
by Evan Koblentz 12 Sep '18

12 Sep '18

Mazdaspeed Miata. Doesn't matter, already sold. I am very sad about it. On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 10:30 AM Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > What model sports car? > > Sent from: > My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > > > On Sep 12, 2018, at 7:45 AM, Brian Schenkenberger via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > writes: > >> > >> Time to sell my sports car. It needs a huge repair that I can't=20 > >> afford/justify. :(=C2=A0 Anyone got a (very cheap) SUV or hatchback for > >> s= ale? > >> > >> Please do NOT reply with sarcasm or off-topicness, I'm not in the > >> mood... > > > > I can't offer you info on cars for sale. I need to get one for my > > youngest son because I'm tiring of driving him to OCC every day and > > the college has only been in session for a week. If you'd care to > > share any leads, I'm interested. > > > >

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Z80/6502/68000 on a Microcontroller (J. Alexander Jacocks)
by mike willegal 12 Sep '18

12 Sep '18

I would take a different approach. I think a number of modern micro-controllers should be fast enough to run Z80/6502/68000 code at real time speed in emulation and will cost less than $10 from places like digikey. In addition, you will be able to easily upgrade capabilities as micro-controller chip suppliers upgrade their chips and make use of their development tool suite. Tricky part would be to implement an emulator that runs at an accurate speed. regards, Mike Willegal

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Z80/6502/68000 on a Microcontroller
by J. Alexander Jacocks 12 Sep '18

12 Sep '18

All, I just ran across this, on the CBM-hackers list: https://www.crowdsupply.com/chips4makers/retro-uc It seems like an interesting idea, though I'm not sure if there would be enough market. I'm guessing that even though it's being called an ASIC, in the description, it's a hybrid with some FPGA elements. What does anyone think? - Alex

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unusual S100 card(s) info needed: "Logistics Synthesis"
by Jonathan Gevaryahu 12 Sep '18

12 Sep '18

There was a 2-slot s100 peripheral available for $525 around 1977 called the "Logistics synthesizer" board (by a company called "Logistics"), which is almost impossible to google information about because of its generic name. It was a multi-purpose sound synthesizer, apparently. Does anyone have one of those beasts and/or documentation, or knows someone who owns one or has the documentation for it? -- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu(a)gmail.com jgevaryahu(a)hotmail.com

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Insanely OT: anyone got a cheap car for sale?
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 12 Sep '18

12 Sep '18

Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> writes: > >Time to sell my sports car. It needs a huge repair that I can't=20 >afford/justify. :(=C2=A0 Anyone got a (very cheap) SUV or hatchback for >s= ale? > >Please do NOT reply with sarcasm or off-topicness, I'm not in the >mood... I can't offer you info on cars for sale. I need to get one for my youngest son because I'm tiring of driving him to OCC every day and the college has only been in session for a week. If you'd care to share any leads, I'm interested.

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Insanely OT: anyone got a cheap car for sale?
by Evan Koblentz 12 Sep '18

12 Sep '18

Time to sell my sports car. It needs a huge repair that I can't afford/justify. :( Anyone got a (very cheap) SUV or hatchback for sale? Please do NOT reply with sarcasm or off-topicness, I'm not in the mood...

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Maker Faire -- Sept. 22-23 -- sign up!
by Evan Koblentz 10 Sep '18

10 Sep '18

Only two people (Corey and I) signed up for the VCF booth at Maker Faire. That's not enough. We need people to sign up now so we're not scrambling later. We will have plenty of tickets to go around for those who sign up. Note: signing up means you're committing to bring a demo of a vintage computer hack (old or new, hardware or software); it's got to be unique vs. the existing signed-up hacks; and you've got to work our both most of the day, both days -- you can't set up something and walk away. Use the spreadsheet at https://tinyurl.com/ybb3729w to sign up. > > *From:* Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic > <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org <mailto:vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>> > *Date:* August 6, 2018 at 2:49:53 PM EDT > *To:* vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > <mailto:vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>> > *Cc:* Evan Koblentz <evan(a)vcfed.org <mailto:evan@vcfed.org>> > *Subject:* *[vcf-midatlantic] Maker Faire demo sign-up* > *Reply-To:* vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > <mailto:vcf-midatlantic@lists.vcfed.org>> > > World Maker Faire is September 22-23 at the N.Y. Hall of Science (Queens). > > We applied for a 10x20 demo booth. Our theme is "Cool hacks for old > computers." Any cool hacks will do! Modern, vintage, hardware, > software, etc. > > **** IMPORTANT >>>> Let's avoid redundancy. Sign up here for what > you'll bring: https://tinyurl.com/ybb3729w > > We have a hotel room for Saturday the 22nd. There are two beds. I get > dibs for one bed. Jeff B. has first right of refusal for the other. > > Anyone's welcome to crash on the floor, etc. > > There will be several tickets available. I don't have an exact number. > As always, the tickets are for people who put serious hours into > staffing our booth and bringing demos. They're not for general > freebies (unless we have extra at the last minute).

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Museum Report 2018-09-09 September 9, 2018
by Jeffrey Brace 10 Sep '18

10 Sep '18

A very rainy day, but a decent amount of visitors came out. A small group of looking for the military vehicles got a quick tour, and they seemed to enjoy it. A father and his 8 year old daughter with autism were pretty interested. The first thing she asked when she came in was: "Which version of windows do you have?" So I told her Windows 3.1. I showed her how to draw with Paint on Windows and MacPaint on the Mac. She loved playing Bear on the C64, especially when the bear hit an enemy and flipped over. Her father said that the computers held her interest longer than the radio museum. A couple were looking for the military vehicles, but did a quick run through and seemed to enjoy it. Another couple of high interest with the wife, Rebecca who knew Claude Kagan. They knew a lot and I learned something from them. They stayed for a while and we talked about each artifact. It's always enjoyable to have visitors like this. The rest of the time I spent planning my exhibit for Maker Faire. Coming up with some neat ideas for the C64. -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President Vintage Computer Federation

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Dan's funeral
by Christian Liendo 09 Sep '18

09 Sep '18

So, finally home. It was a drive but worth it. Dan's family again was awesome to us and even allowed us to be part of the Funeral. They talked about VCF a lot. Ask Dave. I sent a few of you pictures. I didn't want to take too many. I was honored to be there and didn't want to abuse the honor. His daughters mentioned that they would like to to come next VCF East. So I would say that something should be done. It doesn't have to be an official VCF thing. I know I'm going to do something Once I find out what rank Dan was I am going to order this. https://infoage.org/gift-idea-hall-honor-tiles/ I think it would be a fitting tribute to him and it should be ready by the time VCFEast comes around. If anyone has any other ideas, I would appreciate. as for Sept 30, I cannot go that day but please have it and take pictures. I think his daughters would be happy to see that while people couldn't be there that day, they still care.

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Dan's obituary / local gathering?
by Herb Johnson 09 Sep '18

09 Sep '18

Jeffrey Brace wrote: > but my opinion is to do something soon that is a small gathering, > then do something at Festivus to honor him. I agree with Jeff, for reasons that I'm reluctant to discuss but I think should be considered. Memorials happen shortly after one's passing, as part of a period of mourning and grief. Festivus is more than two months from now, and Dan's family may be past their period of mourning. They should be consulted on the particular matters of a memorial event and its timing. But honoring someone at an event is a different matter. That's up to those gathered; it's a celebratory action, a time for reflection, but generally after a a period of mourning. There's generally more time to consider specific actions, and the focus is on that person's life and activities. I think Jeff suggested as much in his post. Also: Festivus has its own standing as an event for various purposes - which is not the subject right now. I don't wish to argue against use of Festivus for a memorial, it would make me appear to be unsympathetic. My discomfort about these two considerations, suggest to me WHY this is not a good idea. I think these are sufficient reasons to not delay a NJ/local memorial gathering, if one can be arranged; AND to plan some honors for Dan at the next VCFed-Midatlantic event, which happens to be the Festivus event. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Selling Apple Lisa 2/10
by Lou 08 Sep '18

08 Sep '18

Blake: I might be interested but I will be honest I doubt I have the amount you might be looking for such a machine. A Lisa 2 is a nice little machine I have sat down with a few times and have had an eye for one for some time now but with the few people I know having them (including a guy I know that has 7 or so of them) usually want somewhere in the ballpark of 1k-2k which is not anywhere near my hobby budget currently. In any case I will put myself out there and say that I have an interest, and if you do see yourself selling the system for a number I might be able to afford feel free to contact me privately so we can do business. I live in the South Jersey area so travel should not be too difficult to make pick up happen. -Lou

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Selling Apple Lisa 2/10
by Blake Patterson 07 Sep '18

07 Sep '18

I think... Are there those on this list potentially interested? I am in the DC metro area. It's in excellent condition, comes with Lisa OS and manuals, orig mouse, printer cable, docs. Considering what to ask for it presently. Will post pics if I move forward. Thanks. bp -- Heisenberg may have slept here.

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Questia access?
by Evan Koblentz 07 Sep '18

07 Sep '18

Does anyone have access to the Questia academic research database? I need an article.

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Dan's obituary / local gathering?
by Evan Koblentz 04 Sep '18

04 Sep '18

https://www.thomasmsmithfuneralhome.com/m/obituaries/Daniel-Roganti/Memories Two things stood out to me. 1. Danny? Who knew! Mindy said he was always "Uncle Danny" to her cousins. 2. It's very humbling that VCF is the preferred charity. I was surprised by that. Dan was and still is all about helping his friends and doing things that are awesome. Does anyone want to have a local (NJ) memorial gathering? (I know lots of us including me would like to be there on Saturday but cannot.) Or do you guys think keeping it up virtually is the better way, knowing that Dan would certainly understand? This weekend is tough for me other than perhaps Saturday brunch. I think we should schedule something for another time (farther down the road) so more people can attend. I also want to do something to more permanently honor his legacy. I don't know what. I have some ideas and will share them with the VCF board. On Sun, Sep 2, 2018, 7:34 PM Evan Koblentz <evan(a)vcfed.org> wrote: > Dan asked me to share this after he passed. He said his sister took him > to see Stayin' Alive in 1977 and then his brother took him to see Star > Wars. He thought this mash-up was hysterical (via Jimmy Fallon show). > Per his request, here's a longer version thanks to editing from Amiga > Bill Winters. > > https://tinyurl.com/y74rbfet > >

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FYI, a new Facebook group re: vintage Lego robotics
by Evan Koblentz 04 Sep '18

04 Sep '18

I made a Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/mindsbeforethestorm/ This accompanies my vintage Lego robotics web site, http://www.mindsbeforethestorm.com. All are welcome.

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MakerFaire 2018 Bus Trip from Allentown, PA
by Chris Fala 04 Sep '18

04 Sep '18

Make Lehigh Valley, my makerspace in Allentown, PA is again organizing a one-day bus trip to the New York World Maker Faire on Saturday, September 22. This is a stress-free trip on a comfortable, air conditioned bus. If you can get to Allentown, PA, we will get you to New York. I hope to see you! Chris ———————— It’s official, we’re running the bus trip to Maker Faire NYC again this year! The drive to Queens is no fun at all. The bus trip with Make Lehigh Valley? Lots of fun. Get your tickets now! https://mlvwmf2018.eventbrite.com/ —

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A video for Dan
by Evan Koblentz 04 Sep '18

04 Sep '18

Dan asked me to share this after he passed. He said his sister took him to see Stayin' Alive in 1977 and then his brother took him to see Star Wars. He thought this mash-up was hysterical (via Jimmy Fallon show). Per his request, here's a longer version thanks to editing from Amiga Bill Winters. https://tinyurl.com/y74rbfet

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Memorial for Dan - Sep. 8
by Evan Koblentz 03 Sep '18

03 Sep '18

There's going to be a memorial for Dan, Saturday Sep. 8 from 2-4pm in the Pittsburgh area. Details TBD. Unfortunately I cannot go. My dad is moving to Florida and there's a going-away dinner that night.

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WTB: Altair 680, Any Condition, Any Configuration
by systems_glitch 03 Sep '18

03 Sep '18

All, I'm looking for an Altair 680. I've been working with Jeff Albrecht's A680 during the RAM board design process, and would like to continue working on a few things for the 680, but I'd also like to send Jeff's machine back to him! Configuration is not particularly important to me. I'd like something with a non-rev 0 motherboard in it if possible -- the easiest way to tell is that there will be a slot for the expansion riser. Front panel vs. turnkey, branding, etc. are not important to me. I'd potentially be interested in even an empty case! Thanks, Jonathan

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Dan Roganti has logged off :(
by Evan Koblentz 02 Sep '18

02 Sep '18

Hey guys. I'm very sorry to announce that my good friend Ragooman took his last breath this morning. Dan was among the first wave of 10-15 people to join MARCH back in 2004-2005. AFAIK, in the many years since then, we never lost any core members until now. Dan was one of those people who everyone liked being around. He was friendly to all, wickedly funny, and sharp as a knife. He was a US Air Force veteran, an electronics technician, a proud native of Long Island, and become a proud resident of Pittsburgh -- he even switched allegiances from the Jets to the Steelers. He lost his wife several years ago and took great care of his daughters Mindy and Katie. He put them both through college, and they both share his technical aptitude. He had a shirt that says, "Every great father teaches his children the ways of the Force." Here's a picture: http://snarc.net/dan_kids.jpg Dan loved all aspects of vintage computing. He was equally passionate about Apple IIs and Commodore 64s as he was about Star Trek and Star Wars. He loved his IMSAI and was a perpetual tinkerer. He drew most of the VCF East t-shirt designs especially in the MARCH era. He often suffered from feature creep .... he was so obsessed with making things better than he rarely got anything actually done. :) He also individually mentored Jeff Brace and I with a lot of programming subjects. Dan got sick a year or two ago and fought the dreaded "C"-word bravely, but unfortunately there was only so much the doctors could do for him. I miss him already. Mindy will let me (and/or Dave McGuire) know soon about the arrangements. At the very least, VCF will follow Dan's (private) wishes regarding his collection. I hope we can do far more to honor him. He knew about our 2018 t-shirt design and loved it. In the past I've found it helpful to focus on happy memories of lost relatives/friends, rather than the sadness of their death. So let's all do something: please reply to this list message and share your favorite Dan story! I can't wait to hear them. I'll go first. The last group event Dan was able to attend, due to his health, was VCF East XII (2017). He arrived a day early to help set up. I didn't want to give him any real labor due to his condition. So I gave him busy work. I told him to go to the party store and get some helium balloons. We'd put them on the doors of the buildings being used for the show. He did as asked, but I was so busy that I forgot to put up the balloons. Dan wasn't amused, but he understood, so as pretend "revenge" he put the balloons on my car! At first he denied it because he thought I was mad. Then I said, "No, it's funny." While never formally confessing, he replied, "Other people helped." (Looking at you, Brace!) Here is a picture: http://snarc.net/dan_balloons.jpg

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Giving a talk at BSidesDC
by David Riley 02 Sep '18

02 Sep '18

Hi all, I don’t mean to take up space around the news about Dan, which is very sad indeed, but this is somewhat time sensitive: if anyone’s interested, I’m giving a more security-oriented version of my Reverse Engineering for Vintage Computers talk at the BSidesDC security conference in Washington, DC toward the end of October. If anyone’s interested in coming to see (it’s a great show if you’re into security in general), tickets are limited but can currently still be acquired here: https://bsidesdc2018.busyconf.com/bookings/new I don’t know what day I’ll be presenting yet, but let me know if you’re coming and I’ll be glad to try to meet up! If you’re unable to acquire a ticket but really want to go, let me know and I may be able to scare something up for you. - Dave

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Dan Roganti has logged off :(
by Bill Degnan 02 Sep '18

02 Sep '18

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018, 4:30 PM Bill Dromgoole via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Its funny , the things you remember. > I remember Dan testing my SD Sales Z80 card in his Imsaii for me at a > workshop held at Bill Degnans house. > He wasn’t afraid to plug it into his working computer. > Although he did use a meter to make sure it had no shorts first. > He was working on an Altair, I think a 680, putting wire jumpers on the > front panel with little pins so the panel could be removed. > He had also brought four or five large multi-drawer cabinets of parts to > help fix other peoples computers. > There were actual wheelbarrows full of TRS-80s there for some reason. > I gave him those trs80II's but they ended up at MARCH. There's a photo of me loading them into his minivan on my website from a wheelbarrow Also, that was my altair8800 that he added the white jumpers. I lent him my altair for a few years, he was working on a few projects with it. Maybe I'll exhibit that one again next year. We should all exhibit machines dan touched as a tribute, eh? B >

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 02 Sep '18

02 Sep '18

I was docent today. A moderate amount of visitors due to Labor Day weekend. Steve A. is docent tomorrow. It may have been sunny outside, but obviously our day was cloudy because of the news about Dan. A lone bright spot: Anthony S. dropped off those mysterious AT&T "Counterpoint" Unix workstations that I mentioned here a week or two ago. You'll recall that the person who donated them was a Bell Labs engineer. He said AT&T commissioned the design, about 1,000 were made, and most were bulldozed when the project got canceled. As far as he knows, the units donated to VCF today are probably the * last * ones around.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Dan Roganti has logged off :(
by systems_glitch 01 Sep '18

01 Sep '18

I never had all that much interaction with Dan; actually I think most of the communications with him was via the Altair Owners' listserv. One of his last conversations with me was regarding a new RAM board that several Altair Owners' members had helped nail down and that I was laying out. Dan pushed for a simpler design, and to ignore some of the features requested as committed to copper in favor of a solid basic RAM board design and lots of prototype area, so that hobbyists could hack together what they wanted! That was ultimately what was decided: fewer base features, more prototype space. I just ran the first PCB prototype about a week and a half ago. It's not 100% ready for prime time yet, but I think Dan would be happy with how it's turned out, and I think the design is *much* better off thanks to his input during the design stage! If you end up with one of these RAM boards for your Altair 680, you have Dan to thank for it not taking *another* year to get wrapped up :) Thanks, Jonathan On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 2:10 PM Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > So let's all do something: please reply to this list message and share > your > > favorite Dan story! I can't wait to hear them. > > I only met Dan a handful of times since 2013 when I got involved with the > group. We had some great discussions at VCF East XII, probably the most > time I spent with him spread over a couple of days. > > I have to say as good as it was seeing him then, my favorite Dan story is > when I saw him last month at his Daughters home. I ended up spending about > 4 1/2 hours just shooting the shit with him talking about everything and > anything. His passion for computers in general and VCF and our Museum > specifically were as strong as ever, and much of our time was spent talking > about how things got to where they are today and where he hoped they would > go in the future. > > Probably the best 4+ hour long conversation I've had with anyone in quite > a long time. We laughed, we yelled about things that pissed us off, we > joked about Evan whenever possible ;-) (he really loved cracking jokes, not > just about Evan!) > > I'm also glad that while he didn't get to see them, he got to see pictures > of his apple II+ up and running and got the word I had resurrected his > original Apple II as well. He was very upset he could not get them for me > to bring home and fix when I saw him, but through the efforts of Dave > McGuire and Jeff Brace I was able to get them with enough time to at least > let him know they were breathing again and would be returned to his > daughters in the condition and with the accessories he requested. > > It was so little on my part but was at least something I could do. > > That conversation will remain with me forever as a fond memory of sitting > down hanging out with one of the nicer people I've met in my life. > > A tribute to Dan is how much of an impact he could have on people with the > smallest amount of contact. > > Tony

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Dan Roganti has logged off :(
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 01 Sep '18

01 Sep '18

Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> writes: > >Hey guys. > >I'm very sorry to announce that my good friend Ragooman took his last >breath this morning. :( EOT Dan. RIP.

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2:00am BASIC epiphany
by Evan Koblentz 31 Aug '18

31 Aug '18

I had a spontaneous idea tonight for removing two lines of my Lego robot code. As usual, this epiphany on my part is probably TOTALLY FRIGGIN' OBVIOUS to most of you, but I'm proud that I figured it out on my own. :) Before, on the forklift robot, this was my code for checking the upper/lower touch sensors (limit switches) and moving the forklift motor appropriately. I had it at 9 lines (not counting REMarks) which was greatly reduced from Dan R.'s original 16 lines. 3010 IF PEEK (49249) > 127 AND PEEK(L) = 64 THEN RETURN 3020 IF PEEK (49249) > 127 THEN POKE L,16 3030 IF PEEK(L) = 80 THEN RETURN 3040 IF PEEK(49249) > 127 THEN GOTO 3020 3050 IF PEEK(49250) > 127 AND PEEK(L) = 128 THEN RETURN 3060 IF PEEK(49250) > 127 THEN POKE L,32 3070 IF PEEK(L) = 160 THEN RETURN 3080 IF PEEK(49250) > 127 THEN GOTO 3060 3090 RETURN Background: In that code, PEEK(49249) in Applesoft checks joystick button 0 and PEEK(49250) checks button 1. If their value is greater than 127 then you know they're currently being pressed. PEEK(L) checks the value at the address of the interface card. 64/128 are the sensors attached to ports (bits) 6 and 7, respectively. POKE L,16/32 turns on the motor (in opposite directions) that's attached via a connector spanned to ports 4/5. Lines 3030 and 3070 stop the motors if the sensors become active ** while ** the motor is moving, because then the total value being read from the interface box is sensor + the motor. The idea that popped into my head tonight: you can combine lines 3010/3020 into one, and also lines 3050/3060 into one, thereby reducing the routine by two lines and having the same effect. 3010 IF PEEK (49249) > 127 AND PEEK(L) <> 64 THEN POKE L,16 3020 IF PEEK(L) = 80 THEN RETURN 3030 IF PEEK(49249) > 127 THEN GOTO 3010 3040 IF PEEK(49250) > 127 AND PEEK(L) <> 128 POKE L,32 3050 IF PEEK(L) = 160 THEN RETURN 3060 IF PEEK(49250) > 127 THEN GOTO 3040 3070 RETURN So instead of saying, "Exit the routine if the lower/upper touch sensors are active, which we know is true if the value at address L is 64 or 128," instead I'm saying, "Turn on the motor ** ONLY IF ** the lower/upper touch sensors aren't active." I can't test it until this weekend at the soonest, but I am ** pretty sure ** it'll work -- or at least I don't see any obvious reason why it would ** not ** work. After all, the forklift motor can't turn on when either sensor is active, because I'm not programmatically allowing it -- right? If it works, then I'll convert it to IBM BASIC too. The button PEEKs become STRIG (stick trigger) values, and the POKEs become OUT. Saving two lines of interpreted / non-compiled BASIC isn't going to have any significant impact on program execution speed or disk space, but it makes the code that much easier for non-programmers to understand, and it gives me that much more confidence of about being than just another English major. :)

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Working Tandy 1000 or 2000
by Jonathan Gevaryahu 31 Aug '18

31 Aug '18

Does VCF have a working Tandy 1000 or 2000 on display or in the warehouse? I need someone with access to a working Tandy 1000/2000 to do some poking from basic of the sound chip, since there's an issue I'm running into with a possible incompatibility of the Tandy 1000/2000 NCR8496 PSG (sound chip) and the more common SN76489/SN76496 PSG which the colecovision etc used. -- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu(a)gmail.com jgevaryahu(a)hotmail.com

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed
by Evan Koblentz 30 Aug '18

30 Aug '18

> There's one for $40/free shipping right now: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/232755988436 Hmm. That's weird, I knew it as part #9750, so I searched for that term. Did not know to search for #70455, which apparently is the same exact thing: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=70455#T=C&C=11. > The receptacles that the various Lego things plug into, in the control > box? Those are a little formed contact with the housing of the control > box making up the connector shell, from what I remember. You could > probably cob something together that'd work, but you can't just go buy > that connector, as far as I know. Oh, didn't know that. I do know that 3mm mini-banana plugs fit perfectly into those holes. So the matching 3mm receptacles would do fine rather than using the Lego part. Speaking of which: I take back what I said earlier about "100% perfect". I meant 100% functional, not 100% in appearance. It could be powered by a Raspberry Pi for all I care. I just want to give people a way to run the vintage software (Lego Logo; BASIC; etc.) on their Apple II or IBM PC and connect it to the period 1980s Lego motors/sensors. Is there a easier/modern way to create the middleware hardware?

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed
by Evan Koblentz 30 Aug '18

30 Aug '18

>> this is for a presentation slide, not to build the thing No. This is for anyone to view so they can make the card for their own use. On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 2:19 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > On 8/29/2018 10:07 AM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > > this is for a presentation slide, not to build the thing > > And, if that's the goal, then I don't see why 100% perfection is needed, > and thus I agree the effort is much more manageable. However, I will > again note, that's not what the original request stated. > > In fact, I would agree with you that simply a block diagram should > suffice for such a slide. > > Jim > > >

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Configuring the Processor Tech 3P+S as an IMSAI SIO-2
by systems_glitch 30 Aug '18

30 Aug '18

link: http://www.glitchwrks.com/2018/08/30/3ps-imsai-sio I recently repaired a Processor Tech 3P+S I/O board for the VCFed Museum. This 3P+S is going in an IMSAI, so it was to be configured as compatible with the first channel of an IMSAI SIO-2. The 3P+S is a super versatile I/O board, much of the configuration is left to the user to jumper in as they want, but making it look like an IMSAI SIO-2 did require a cut-and-jump. But, after fixing the control/data register ordering and taking the bitrate base clock from the 2 MHz pin (pin 49 on S-100) instead of the system clock, it works! I was able to pull my IMSAI SIO-2, drop in this modified 3P+S, and run the software I'd been running on the SIO-2. The 3P+S is on my short list for "S-100 boards to reproduce." It's a very handy serial interface, being as how it can be made to look like most other manufacturers' boards. Thanks, Jonathan

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] the first pDa
by William Dudley 30 Aug '18

30 Aug '18

My understanding is that Wikipedia "management/rules" will accept information if backed by citations. This has resulted in the following stupidity: An expert in a field makes an edit to a Wikipedia article. It is rejected for lack of an accompanying citation. The same expert cites an article published in a magazine, that HE WROTE, about the topic. So -- he's citing *himself*. Expert's Wikipedia edit is now accepted because it has an accompanying citation. All of which suggests that if Evan makes an edit, and cites HIS OWN BOOK, the edit will be accepted. Bill Dudley This email is free of malware because I run Linux. On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Neil Cherry <ncherry(a)linuxha.com> > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:20:33 -0400 > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] the first pDa > On 08/29/2018 12:50 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant >>> >>> who is going to correct this? >>> >> >> Obviously I'm the guy, but I am very un-motivated to argue with Wikipedia >> editors. >> > > Amen to that! > > -- > Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com > http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site > http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog > Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies > >

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the first pDa
by Bill Degnan 30 Aug '18

30 Aug '18

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant who is going to correct this?

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed
by systems_glitch 29 Aug '18

29 Aug '18

I'd had the ISA card in the shop for a while and didn't get around to mapping it out. I've explained to Evan that it's not a trivial process. I offered to depopulate the board and send it off to Mile High Test for a scan + conversion to Gerbers, which are guaranteed to be 100% accurate, but that costs around $200-250. It's the same process I've used to reproduce various Ohio Scientific and S-100 boards. Thanks, Jonathan On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 2:58 AM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > On 8/29/2018 1:15 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > > I need someone to make two (relatively simple) schematics for me. One > > is the IBM card for the Lego kit, and one is the Lego interface box. > > > > Here is one side of the IBM card: > > http://snarc.net/lego_ibm_1.jpg > > > > Here is the other side: > > http://snarc.net/lego_ibm_2.jpg > > > > Here's a picture of the top of the interface board: > > > http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DGOlTkGXj_Q/U8-T2uBG5iI/AAAAAAAAATY/7ra6gVkSKg8/s… > > > > > > Here's the bottom of the interface board: > > > http://lukazi.blogspot.com/2014/07/lego-legos-first-programmable-product.ht… > > > > > > Here's a document Dan R. made of the board a year or two ago: > > http://snarc.net/9750.png > > > > Now here is the catch..... I absolutely MUST have a complete, perfect, > > finished schematic of the IBM card and the interface board by a week > > before Maker Faire -- so let's say the deadline is Friday, Sept. 14. > > Do you have a backup plan? I say that because I professionally feel > that creating a working and tested schematic within your timeline is > going to be nearly impossible. > > * The first board is two sided, and those typically need to be > unsoldered to ensure all traces under the ICs have been mapped. One > can try to use a multi-meter, but there are pitfalls > * Even if the schematic is doable, there's no way to truly ensure it's > perfect unless one make a spin of the PCB, populates it, and tests > it. unless one wants to spend $250.00, it takes about 2 weeks to > spin a PCB. > * Though the other board looks to be single sided, all of the items on > the board must be described and validated. The toroids in the > center and right seem particularly problematic, as one needs to > determine the uH, turns, and such of the items in order to be > perfect. As well, those TO-220 transistors (or maybe they are FETs) > sandwiched in between the connectors need to be desoldered or > somehow moved so the markings can be read. The LEDs need to be > scoped to determine their mA rating, etc. > > I'm not trying to rain on the parade, but I do want to inject some > realism into the request timeline. Doing such a reverse engineer will > probably take a month or so, assuming someone squeezes it into their > normal workflow and they do this regularly. > > Someone already made a schematic of the Apple II card: > > > http://lukazi.blogspot.com/2014/07/lego-legos-first-programmable-product.ht… > > > > Regrettably, it looks like the Apple uses a different schematic > completely (It uses a VIA instead of the IBM PC discrete TTL) and so > this schematic will not help. > > Jim > > > -- > RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems > www.go4retro.com > store.go4retro.com > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed
by Bill Degnan 29 Aug '18

29 Aug '18

this is for a presentation slide, not to build the thing On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:05 AM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > On 8/29/2018 9:49 AM, Kyle Owen via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > > Why would ohming out this board not yield a 100% correct schematic? I see > > no tricky components that would confuse an ohmmeter except the address > > switch, which could be unsoldered. > > Many of the signals go under the ICs. Sometimes, you can hold to a > light and see through the PCB and validate where they go, but other > times, I have missed wires connecting to more than 1 pin of the IC under > the IC. Ohming, if applied verbosely for each signal around the IC > compared to each IC pin, should find all of them, but I don't think I > would promise 100% perfection without spinning a PCB and testing the > completed unit. > > Maybe everyone else is better at ohming out boards and the hidden > signals under ICs never bother anyone else, but I've gotten hit twice by > them on two different efforts. > > Jim >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed
by alan＠alanlee.org 29 Aug '18

29 Aug '18

Sure. If Evan can wait till next week and Eagle or Altium is fine. Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone ------ Original message------From: systems_glitch via vcf-midatlanticDate: Wed, Aug 29, 2018 11:48 AMTo: vcf-midatlantic;Cc: systems_glitch;Subject:Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed Sounds like we've got plenty of volunteers, then! :P Thanks, Jonathan On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:45 AM alan--- via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > It's two 8 bit opposing latches and some address decoding glue. If one > knew the port address, you could create the schematic blind and be 98% > correct. > Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone > ------ Original message------From: Kyle Owen via vcf-midatlanticDate: Wed, > Aug 29, 2018 11:17 AMTo: vcf-midatlantic;Cc: Kyle Owen;Subject:Re: > [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:05 AM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > > Many of the signals go under the ICs. Sometimes, you can hold to a > > light and see through the PCB and validate where they go, but other > > times, I have missed wires connecting to more than 1 pin of the IC under > > the IC. Ohming, if applied verbosely for each signal around the IC > > compared to each IC pin, should find all of them, but I don't think I > > would promise 100% perfection without spinning a PCB and testing the > > completed unit. > > > > Maybe everyone else is better at ohming out boards and the hidden > > signals under ICs never bother anyone else, but I've gotten hit twice by > > them on two different efforts. > > > > Yes. If you do not completely ohm out each pin/component, I could very much > imagine generating an incomplete schematic. The netlist generated by ohming > out the board should have every pin on every component by the time you're > done. If not, you've missed something. With some conditional formatting, > it's possible to highlight possible errors like duplicate entries, too many > pins per component, etc. > > Hidden traces are no problem *if* you are not relying on visuals, but > rather the ohmmeter. > > And if you're using a Fluke, don't forget to hold down the yellow button > when turning it on, lest you have it automatically power off while you > attempt to ohm out the board. Ask me how I know... :) > > Kyle >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed
by alan＠alanlee.org 29 Aug '18

29 Aug '18

It's two 8 bit opposing latches and some address decoding glue. If one knew the port address, you could create the schematic blind and be 98% correct. Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone ------ Original message------From: Kyle Owen via vcf-midatlanticDate: Wed, Aug 29, 2018 11:17 AMTo: vcf-midatlantic;Cc: Kyle Owen;Subject:Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:05 AM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > Many of the signals go under the ICs. Sometimes, you can hold to a > light and see through the PCB and validate where they go, but other > times, I have missed wires connecting to more than 1 pin of the IC under > the IC. Ohming, if applied verbosely for each signal around the IC > compared to each IC pin, should find all of them, but I don't think I > would promise 100% perfection without spinning a PCB and testing the > completed unit. > > Maybe everyone else is better at ohming out boards and the hidden > signals under ICs never bother anyone else, but I've gotten hit twice by > them on two different efforts. > Yes. If you do not completely ohm out each pin/component, I could very much imagine generating an incomplete schematic. The netlist generated by ohming out the board should have every pin on every component by the time you're done. If not, you've missed something. With some conditional formatting, it's possible to highlight possible errors like duplicate entries, too many pins per component, etc. Hidden traces are no problem *if* you are not relying on visuals, but rather the ohmmeter. And if you're using a Fluke, don't forget to hold down the yellow button when turning it on, lest you have it automatically power off while you attempt to ohm out the board. Ask me how I know... :) Kyle

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed
by Kyle Owen 29 Aug '18

29 Aug '18

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:05 AM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > Many of the signals go under the ICs. Sometimes, you can hold to a > light and see through the PCB and validate where they go, but other > times, I have missed wires connecting to more than 1 pin of the IC under > the IC. Ohming, if applied verbosely for each signal around the IC > compared to each IC pin, should find all of them, but I don't think I > would promise 100% perfection without spinning a PCB and testing the > completed unit. > > Maybe everyone else is better at ohming out boards and the hidden > signals under ICs never bother anyone else, but I've gotten hit twice by > them on two different efforts. > Yes. If you do not completely ohm out each pin/component, I could very much imagine generating an incomplete schematic. The netlist generated by ohming out the board should have every pin on every component by the time you're done. If not, you've missed something. With some conditional formatting, it's possible to highlight possible errors like duplicate entries, too many pins per component, etc. Hidden traces are no problem *if* you are not relying on visuals, but rather the ohmmeter. And if you're using a Fluke, don't forget to hold down the yellow button when turning it on, lest you have it automatically power off while you attempt to ohm out the board. Ask me how I know... :) Kyle

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Schematic work needed
by Kyle Owen 29 Aug '18

29 Aug '18

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:33 AM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > I stand by my original position. While I agree with Kyle that card in > hand DMM efforts would likely lead to a good approximation in a short > time period, ensuring a 100% correct conversion really requires building > a unit and testing. > Why would ohming out this board not yield a 100% correct schematic? I see no tricky components that would confuse an ohmmeter except the address switch, which could be unsoldered. First thing I typically do is label each component if not already labeled. I'd probably prefer U1 versus IC1, and I'd label the edge connector and header probably P1 and P2. I then take an Excel sheet and place each net on its own row. So the first row could look like: IC1-7 IC2-7 IC3-7 IC4-10 IC5-10 C1-L C2-R P2-9 P1-17 As long as you're methodical and have marked every pin as visited, then perhaps double-check that no two nets actually comprise one larger net, you're done with the netlist. Drawing the schematic from the netlist is not difficult, and as long as you're using a schematic capture tool like KiCad, you can export a netlist to check against your original one, just to double-check. Kyle

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Schematic work needed
by Evan Koblentz 29 Aug '18

29 Aug '18

I need someone to make two (relatively simple) schematics for me. One is the IBM card for the Lego kit, and one is the Lego interface box. Here is one side of the IBM card: http://snarc.net/lego_ibm_1.jpg Here is the other side: http://snarc.net/lego_ibm_2.jpg Here's a picture of the top of the interface board: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DGOlTkGXj_Q/U8-T2uBG5iI/AAAAAAAAATY/7ra6gVkSKg8/s… Here's the bottom of the interface board: http://lukazi.blogspot.com/2014/07/lego-legos-first-programmable-product.ht… Here's a document Dan R. made of the board a year or two ago: http://snarc.net/9750.png Now here is the catch..... I absolutely MUST have a complete, perfect, finished schematic of the IBM card and the interface board by a week before Maker Faire -- so let's say the deadline is Friday, Sept. 14. There is no room for delay. I don't know enough about schematic-making to know if you can do it based on the above links or if you need the parts in your hand. If it's the latter, then you would need to make an appointment with me to come to the museum and do the work there. I am reluctant to mail the parts out, because I need to work with them and because if there's a delay then I have a huge problem. Who can do this? There's no pay, only glory. :) Someone already made a schematic of the Apple II card: http://lukazi.blogspot.com/2014/07/lego-legos-first-programmable-product.ht…

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Heath H11 woes
by Richard Cini 29 Aug '18

29 Aug '18

All — Last weekend I pulled my H11 off the shelf to play with it and it seems that in the 6 month is since I last used it, something happened to the power supply (it kept blowing the DC fuse). I started working on it based on the troubleshooting in the manual (replaced two transistors and a regulator) but now the AC line fuse blows and not the DC fuse. If someone has worked on these before and can let me know if there is a common failure mode, I’d appreciate it. I’m going to start from the top this weekend. There is no obvious sign of damage or failure (no smoke, busted caps, etc.). Now, if anyone has an empty DEC BA11 case (no cards; I think that would be the correct case) with a good power supply I might be in the market for one :-) Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

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Apple 1 for auction next month
by Andy Meyer 28 Aug '18

28 Aug '18

Sorry if you've seen this already. (I hadn't) https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/24/apple_1_up_for_sale_cassettes_incl… Andy

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 27 Aug '18

27 Aug '18

I was at the museum both days this weekend (stayed overnight and went for a 12-mile run on the boardwalk this morning -- fun!) We had a steady flow of visitors the whole time. Today's highlights: a father and son who spent an hour on the C-64, and a visit from our own Nick L. ... I spent time between visitors working on my Lego R2 robot, because it gives me happy memories of being 12 again!

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Interest in a Workshop at System Source, in Hunt Valley, MD?
by J. Alexander Jacocks 27 Aug '18

27 Aug '18

Bill, No, not yet. We only have 8 total folks across the two weekends, so far, with November being much more popular. I’m hoping for a few more. - Alex On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 16:56 Bill Dromgoole via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Yes, I am interested In both days at the museum. > I want to survey Bob’s Univac 1218 and Univac 490 to see what is needed to > get them lit off. > I am pretty sure that Duane is also interested in powering up the Univacs. > > Do we have any firm dates or a signup list yet? > I have both suggested dates marked on my calendar. > > Bill Dromgoole > > From: Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 9:05 AM > To: vcf-midatlantic > Cc: Bill Degnan > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Interest in a Workshop at System Source,in > Hunt Valley, MD? > > certainly if possible to have one on both weekends so everyone interested > can attend at least one. I can help more with the November workshop but > I'd probably go to both at least one day each. > > For those of you who don't know, Bob has a private museum with a ton of > computer exhibits ranging the entire spectrum of machines. the official > web site > https://museum.syssrc.com/ > > I helped Bob organize a workshop in 2014: > http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=537 > It has been too long since we had a workshop there, I am glad someone is > taking the initiative. > > Bill > > On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 7:45 AM Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > I'd definitely want to come. I'd think the September dates would be > better > > for me, I'm checking to be sure. > > > > On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 10:06 PM, J. Alexander Jacocks via > vcf-midatlantic > > < > > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > > All, > > > > > > Since we can't have a workshop at InfoAge, this fall, I propose (along > > with > > > Bob Roswell) that we have a workshop at Bob's System Source Computer > > > Museum, in Hunt Valley, MD. > > > > > > I talked to Bob, and he and I are both available on the following > dates: > > > September 29th/30th > > > November 10th/11th > > > > > > We're not yet sure if this will be a 1-day or a 2-day workshop. Please > > let > > > me know if you are available on either of the dates, and I'll tally the > > > results. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > - Alex > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jason Perkins > > 313 355 0085 > > > >

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Interest in a Workshop at System Source, in Hunt Valley, MD?
by J. Alexander Jacocks 26 Aug '18

26 Aug '18

All, Since we can't have a workshop at InfoAge, this fall, I propose (along with Bob Roswell) that we have a workshop at Bob's System Source Computer Museum, in Hunt Valley, MD. I talked to Bob, and he and I are both available on the following dates: September 29th/30th November 10th/11th We're not yet sure if this will be a 1-day or a 2-day workshop. Please let me know if you are available on either of the dates, and I'll tally the results. Thanks! - Alex

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Ebay laugh
by Mike Loewen 24 Aug '18

24 Aug '18

Ebay #142914386597 "1970's Computer Mainframe Hard Disk - 14" "Good condition. No markings." Mike Loewen mloewen(a)cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

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OT: Visual BASIC consultants/experts?
by Evan Koblentz 23 Aug '18

23 Aug '18

For work (TechRepublic) I need to interview someone who's a VB6 expert. It must be someone who does enterprise-scale software dev as their full-time job, not a hobbyist. Email me off-list if you know of anyone.

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Ampro LittleBoard/286 Software?
by J. Alexander Jacocks 22 Aug '18

22 Aug '18

Does anyone on the list have the software (particularly setup.exe and the SCSI toolchain) for an Ampro LittleBoard/286? I just picked one up, and would like to get it going again. Thanks! - Alex

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum Report
by Gordon 'gsteemso' Steemson 22 Aug '18

22 Aug '18

Hi folks, > Some of us in the TRS-80 community > refer to it as the “T” word. When said with > an underlying affection and respect, it’s all good. > It’s a way of “owning/“ the term. However, > when said with derision or out of > ignorance, its offensive. I have almost always said it that way -- not with any value judgement in mind, but simply because it is considerably faster than saying it the "correct" way. That said, I initially heard that form of the name when I was an immature and easily-amused teenager. Obnoxious-Youth Me found it made for a very vivid mnemonic association, in addition to being more convenient to enunciate. (For the record, I never actually _used_ a TRS-80 of any type, though I have enjoyed brief interactions with a few specimens set up by our fellow retrocomputing fans.) It came as something as a shock when, after 25 years or so of using "Trash-80" merely as a streamlined way of saying "TRS-80," I first encountered someone to whom the term was strongly offensive. It took even longer for me to grasp just _how_ strongly it offended, simply because the Platform Holy Wars dispute had degenerated to "Mac vs. IBM" with rare interjections of "Amiga!" by the time I encountered it. The various 8-bit platforms remained in minor use by those disinterested in forking over non-trivial sums of money to get something more current, but had long since ceased to even be referenced in that futile conflict, let alone be actual contenders therein. My two cents; quote or ignore as preferred. Gordon "gsteemso" Steemson Instigating Cat-Herder and Agitator-by-Default for the Seattle Retro-Computing Society

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Trash talk (was: Museum Report)
by Herb Johnson 22 Aug '18

22 Aug '18

> It came as something as a shock when, after 25 years or so of using > "Trash-80" merely as a streamlined way of saying "TRS-80," I first > encountered someone to whom the term was strongly offensive. It took > even longer for me to grasp just _how_ strongly it offended, simply > because the Platform Holy Wars dispute had degenerated to "Mac vs. > IBM" with rare interjections of "Amiga!" by the time I encountered it. > The various 8-bit platforms remained in minor use by those > disinterested in forking over non-trivial sums of money to get > something more current, but had long since ceased to even be > referenced in that futile conflict, let alone be actual contenders > therein. > > My two cents; quote or ignore as preferred. Not to hijack the thread; but referring to previous generations of personal computers as either "Trash 80's" or "holy wars" or "the various 8-bit platforms" - all are somewhat derisive references to computers which, in many cases, the person using such words has no experience with. I appreciate that Gordon is telling his story as someone who now know better; thank you. The TRS-80 is well-discussed in this this thread. I'll address the references to earlier computers, those being the systems of interest and experience to me. So - before "IBM vs. Mac", there was "IBM vs CP/M systems". Calling all those systems "8 bit ... minor use .. futile conflict" and inferring their owners were too cheap to upgrade to "more current"; more examples of derisive comments. Again - I appreciate the writer, Gordon, has disavowed these words today; they represent (I hope) the words of his earlier days-of-youth. But they are still obnoxious terms; and untrue too. The 8-bit and 16 bit systems of the late 1970's and into the 1980's were often performance competitive with the IBM PC's of that era. They operated not-inexpensive business and personal software which provided useful results. Small businesses in particular - one of the early drivers of personal computing - were well invested in that hardware and software. Whereas, for IBM PC's early years, there was a LACK of software. Much of the early IBM-PC software was simply re-assembled-for-MS-DOS CP/M software. My Ithaca Intersystem will run rings around an IBM-PC of the same year of manufacture. I know that - because Jeff Duntemann *showed that to me at the time*, he had both. He's a writer and publisher known in the IBM PC era and from times prior. As for the modern obsession of "must have newest computer... must have newest software". In the 1970's and 80's, people and businesses expected to run computers and software for YEARS - and they did, quite successfully so. As did their cars, their appliances, and many other items of comparable cost. Flipping computers began in the 1990's, when Tiawan clones of IBM PC's became cheap and plentiful, and technology moved much faster, and of course PC's were extremely standardized. Those were not the conditions of the 80's, and less so in the 1970's. Many people, ran those computers for a long time. Why do you suppose, they bothered to SAVE them, decades later, after using them? Where do you think *we* got those systems today, decades later? How come, they *still* run? All clues to value, then and now. I'll end the lecture here with some simple advice. Computers of an era ought to be judged in the context of their era; and not based on "trash talk" from owners of successor systems. And in many cases, those successors companies and products, obtained their value from work done (or people trained upon) those prior systems. They owe their success, to the past. Thus, the value of retaining past works. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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AT&T Technical Workstation / Counterpoint C-19
by Herb Johnson 21 Aug '18

21 Aug '18

Computerworld Nov 16, 1987 title "Counterpoint, Multitech join" San jose CA - Counterpoint Computers last week completed a merger with Multitech Industrial Corp, a member of the MSC Group, a Tiawanese comglomerate.... founder and President Pauline Alker.... headquarters here. ... Founded in 1984, privately held Counterpoint ... investors are AT&T and Kyocera Corp. book Distinguished Asian American Business Leaders By Naomi Hirahara Pauline Lo Alker, who entered the computer field in the 1960's, pioneered the way for Asian American women to excel in high technology. In 1984 Alker and the director of engineering of her division at Convergent decided to launch their own enterprise, Counterpoint Computers Inc, in San Jose. ... the Tiawanese company Acer, became one of Counterpoint's largest customers...she later became the president of Acer America's sales and operating division. "google is our friend" Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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