- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Keytronics repair - not foam related
by Bob Applegate 23 Sep '20

23 Sep '20

This has nothing to do with the deteriorating foam, so don’t suggest that. Has anyone debugged the “later” Keytronics keyboard electronics such as the A65-02495-001 (-01) like used on Franklin computer machines around 1983-1984? I’ve got a few of them where a few keys don’t work and I’m wondering if anyone has looked into what the most likely problem is. There are only seven chips on this model/revision board: 8048 XR 22-908-03A 74LS138 (two of them) 74LS374 74LS74 7406 My guess is that one row/column isn’t being scanned or read properly. Only the 8048 is socketed and NOS 22-908-03As are kind of pricey so before I spend the time to remove the chips I was hoping someone else had debugged this design and could offer a suggestion for what’s most likely at fault. The earlier ACE-100s and early 1000s had a different keyboard that was more generic with an edge connector. Franklin used a small PC board that plugged into the edge connector and then had the typical Apple/Franklin 16 pin IC socket. It also had more chips and an EPROM. The later keyboards had fewer chips and included the proper IC socket. Franklin’s Engineering department had nothing to do with the keyboard design other than providing the specs for what the interface looked like. Ie, I was never involved with the discussions with Keyytronics and never knew of our having source code to the keyboard controller. Any help would be appreciated before I remove/replace chips. Bob

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Slightly OT
by David Ryskalczyk 23 Sep '20

23 Sep '20

It's Facebook. You need to have an account and be logged in for it to work. David > On Sep 21, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Bob Aviles via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > From: Bob Aviles <raviles132001(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Slightly OT > Date: September 21, 2020 at 11:24:37 AM EDT > To: Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > > Link broken. > Bobby > On Sunday, September 20, 2020, 10:57:37 PM EDT, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > Shows up for me. > > Tony > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:41 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> >> On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 8:46 PM Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < >> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> >>> Heathkit Estate Lot $1,200.00 >>> >>> My dad collected over the years when he passed away we found out just >>> how much stuff he had. >>> Things I know for sure >>> 3 oscilloscopes >>> 20+ trainers >>> Manuals >>> Trainer Binders >>> Kits >>> Unbuilt inbox trainers >>> So many to list.. i think this is a fair price for a heathkit collector. >>> Pick up will be at our house in Mansfield Ohio. >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/53497998217/user/873975386/ >>> >>> >> Looks like that link has been removed. I can't access it. >> >> >> -- >> ========================================= >> Jeff Brace >> Vice President & Board Member >> Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner >> Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity >> http://www.vcfed.org/ >> jeffrey(a)vcfed.org >> cell: 732-759-1783 > > >

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Old TV knocks out internet for entire village
by Christian Liendo 22 Sep '20

22 Sep '20

I could go into all the different problems with this but given that we probably all have an old TV or monitor, it is something we may find funny. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/22/uk/old-tv-breaks-broadband-village-scli-intl…

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VCF 2020 T-SHIRT DEADLINE
by Jeffrey Brace 22 Sep '20

22 Sep '20

This is your last chance to get a VCF 2020 t-shirt. If you want a VCF 2020 t-shirt you have until Wednesday 9/23 to let me know. I'm doing an order for in-person pickup. Send me an e-mail size, color, quantity. Cost for t-shirts is $20. Then I will send you a PayPal invoice. They come in Amber or Green. You can look here for pictures of them here: http://vcfed.org/wp/t-shirts You can still have them delivered to you while supplies last from here: http://vcfed.org/wp/t-shirts. Cost is $20 + shipping. -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Slightly OT
by Tony Bogan 21 Sep '20

21 Sep '20

Weird. I see the HealthKit group, the thread about the person selling the stuff has 15 comments, 2 shares and 36 likes on it. Opens right up in The Facebook app on my phone. I did not try it on a desktop but if you’re logged into Facebook id imagine it would do the same thing. Tony Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 21, 2020, at 12:36 PM, Bob Aviles via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > <mime-attachment>

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Slightly OT
by Bob Aviles 21 Sep '20

21 Sep '20

Link broken. Bobby On Sunday, September 20, 2020, 10:57:37 PM EDT, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: Shows up for me. Tony Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:41 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 8:46 PM Martin Flynn via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> Heathkit Estate Lot $1,200.00 >> >> My dad collected over the years when he passed away we found out just >> how much stuff he had. >> Things I know for sure >> 3 oscilloscopes >> 20+ trainers >> Manuals >> Trainer Binders >> Kits >> Unbuilt inbox trainers >> So many to list.. i think this is a fair price for a heathkit collector. >> Pick up will be at our house in Mansfield Ohio. >> >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/53497998217/user/873975386/ >> >> > Looks like that link has been removed. I can't access it. > > > -- > ========================================= > Jeff Brace > Vice President & Board Member > Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner > Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity > http://www.vcfed.org/ > jeffrey(a)vcfed.org > cell: 732-759-1783

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Recapping a Mac IIci
by Ethan O'Toole 21 Sep '20

21 Sep '20

The problem is when the capacitors leak juice out it changes the chemistry of the solder or something. Unsodering leaked caps is often a difficult mess. I don't know if the IIci uses surface mount caps or not. I haven't had one in a long time (but wouldn't mind another one, they are cool. I was eyeballing that one at Festivus or whatever.) One thing you can do, clean it off as much as possible then try to add new solder to the old solder first, then try to desolder it. Another trick is cutting away the old cap first using snips, but this brings the risk of pulling up traces. Similar to the other poster, I always use leaded solder. I don't know anyone that uses lead free at home. On Sat, 19 Sep 2020, Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic wrote: [NON-Text Body part not included]

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Slightly OT
by Martin Flynn 21 Sep '20

21 Sep '20

Heathkit Estate Lot $1,200.00 My dad collected over the years when he passed away we found out just how much stuff he had. Things I know for sure 3 oscilloscopes 20+ trainers Manuals Trainer Binders Kits Unbuilt inbox trainers So many to list.. i think this is a fair price for a heathkit collector. Pick up will be at our house in Mansfield Ohio. https://www.facebook.com/groups/53497998217/user/873975386/

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EXHIBITOR REGISTRATION CLOSED! (for VCF East 2020)
by Jeffrey Brace 20 Sep '20

20 Sep '20

I was supposed to close exhibitor registration last Sunday, but forgot, so everyone had a bonus week to get their exhibits registration in. Two more people squeaked in during that bonus week. I closed the Google Form for exhibitors, instructors, presenters, so no more can be submitted. If you are already working on a video, then please get it to me ASAP! DEADLINE IS NOW! If you need more time, then I might be persuaded. I know the showrunner and he can be persuaded by homemade chocolate chip cookies. ;) -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine
by Richard Cini 19 Sep '20

19 Sep '20

Kind of feels like someone should do a write up on this if it doesn’t exist somewhere already. I have a Pi 2+ lying around, a few different Macs, an Asante bridge and plenty of AppleTalk stuff. If you have an SD card image I can take a crack at doing it. http://www.classiccmp.org/cini Long Island S100 User’s Group Get Outlook<https://aka.ms/qtex0l> for iOS ________________________________ From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> on behalf of Glenn Holmer via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 9:22:59 AM To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> Cc: Glenn Holmer <cenbe(a)kolabnow.com> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine

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Recapping a Mac IIci
by Richard Cini 19 Sep '20

19 Sep '20

All — I have an Apple IIci main board that need recapping. Does anyone know of someone that does this? I bought a recapping kit and tried it on my spare machine and it doesn’t seem to work (I get the bing but no video; no explosion at least) but I’d rather not try it on the main machine. Thanks! Rich http://www.classiccmp.org/cini Long Island S100 User’s Group Get Outlook<https://aka.ms/qtex0l> for iOS

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine
by David Riley 19 Sep '20

19 Sep '20

On Sep 18, 2020, at 8:29 AM, Glenn Holmer via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > From: Glenn Holmer <cenbe(a)kolabnow.com> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine > Date: September 18, 2020 at 8:29:51 AM EDT > To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > > > On 9/17/20 6:13 PM, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >> Actually, IMO, the best option is: if you can get an Ethernet card in >> the SE, you can run Netatalk 2.x on Linux or NetBSD (both still >> support AppleTalk, but netatalk 3.x does not). > I'm keeping an old version of Debian on a Raspberry Pi so I can run Netatalk 2.2 for my Mac SEs. Is there anything current that will support AppleTalk? Nope. They dropped AppleTalk support from Netatalk at the 3.0 transition because: a) Almost no one used it (I was the only vocal complainer) b) No one was left on the project to maintain it (ironically, Thomas Kaiser, the last guy who did, is one of the lead maintainers for Armbian, probably the best generic Debian port for non-RPi ARM boards) c) Backwards compatibility with older versions of AFP (Apple Filing Protocol, the AppleShare protocol) was beginning to make adding new functionality difficult to add, so losing the older non-TCP versions really improved maintenance and security NetBSD and Linux both still have AppleTalk kernel support; I sent a patch to fix some AppleTalk bugs in NetBSD a long while ago that I believe has been mainlined, and Linux currently has a bug in its AppleTalk stack regarding multiple interfaces (important if you're trying to run an AppleTalk router, but irrelevant otherwise) for which I need to update my patch and send to the maintainer. But they both work. Apple got rid of AppleTalk for everything but printers in 10.4, and the rest of it in 10.5. OpenBSD dropped AppleTalk support a long time ago. I don't know about FreeBSD, since I don't do much hacking on it, but I'd be surprised if it still had support. Netatalk 2.x comes with source for a kernel module for Solaris to add AppleTalk support, but it was severely broken on Solaris 10 and I never finished trying to update it, and it definitely won't work on 11 because they changed the low-level networking interface quite a bit. So in general, Linux is probably your best bet, followed by NetBSD, IMO. There's no telling when Linux might get rid of AppleTalk (after all, they're deprecating the PC floppy driver), but NetBSD is unlikely to since they delight in supporting ancient and unusual things. What I *really* want to do is make a userland AppleTalk stack/library that works via BPF to do the packet handling on anything that handles BPF (so, most of the above, including Solaris 11, but not 10, IIRC). It would be a loser performance-wise on older machines, but for anything reasonably modern (last 15 years or so, really) it should be just fine for the kind of traffic even a medium-sized Mac lab could generate. It would also be decidedly more secure than a kernel implementation; the Linux kernel's AppleTalk stack is a real mess, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some latent security vulnerabilities in it. If anyone is interested in trying to start that effort, I'd be glad to chat. LocalTalk support via custom interfaces would be especially neat (you can't do it on a regular PC serial port because it's actually 230kbaud SDLC, which the Z8530 on the Mac and Sun machines handles just fine, but 16550 and family definitely do not). In any case, to answer your original question: Netatalk 2.2.6 is, if I recall, the latest that will work. It incorporated some of the login module fixes backported from 3.0, but is otherwise in mothballs, so don't expect anything new unless you decide to fork it. - Dave

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine
by Andrew Diller 18 Sep '20

18 Sep '20

Are you are asking if there is a more recent Linux that will support netalk? Or are you asking if any recent OSX can access the netatalk shares in 2.x? I tend to think of AppleTalk on ethernet as Ethertalk, to disambiguate it from LocalTalk (which people may be using if they have a bridge). If you can keep everything on ethernet (i.e. you have a network card for all your macs so you can get them to a switch and a common network segment/subnet) I've found that even recent versions of OSX (10.10/Yosemite) can access a netatalk 2.x share via TCPIP and easily share files with older macs. The biggest issue is usually the form of the archive used and ensuring that the resource forks can be properly re-constructed. SIT files are the best to ensure this. I've also setup netatalk on a older laptop w/ Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx) and it works great for this transfer. being on an extra, older laptop I can just leave it till I need it again and even it's smallish HD is huge in comparison to the files for classic macs. -andy > On Sep 18, 2020, at 8:29 AM, Glenn Holmer via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > From: Glenn Holmer <cenbe(a)kolabnow.com> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine > Date: September 18, 2020 at 8:29:51 AM EDT > To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > > > On 9/17/20 6:13 PM, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >> Actually, IMO, the best option is: if you can get an Ethernet card in >> the SE, you can run Netatalk 2.x on Linux or NetBSD (both still >> support AppleTalk, but netatalk 3.x does not). > I'm keeping an old version of Debian on a Raspberry Pi so I can run Netatalk 2.2 for my Mac SEs. Is there anything current that will support AppleTalk? > > -- > Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682) > "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe." > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine
by Richard Cini 18 Sep '20

18 Sep '20

Glenn - I have several Asante ethernet cards "in stock" but I never thought of putting one in the SE (I have one on my IIci). I also have a Raspberry Pi laying around. Are Debian images still around? Sounds like a project... Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32 On 9/18/20, 8:30 AM, "vcf-midatlantic on behalf of Glenn Holmer via vcf-midatlantic" <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org on behalf of vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On 9/17/20 6:13 PM, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Actually, IMO, the best option is: if you can get an Ethernet card in the SE, you can run Netatalk 2.x on Linux or NetBSD (both still support AppleTalk, but netatalk 3.x does not). I'm keeping an old version of Debian on a Raspberry Pi so I can run Netatalk 2.2 for my Mac SEs. Is there anything current that will support AppleTalk? -- Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682) "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine
by Herb Johnson 18 Sep '20

18 Sep '20

Rich Cini says: have an old System 7 or 8 Mac, it put files on a Mac format ZIP disk. Then run a recent-enough OSX (pre 10.15) Mac that can read the ZIP disk via a USB ZIP drive. OK, got that. But I got lost when Rich said "use an emulator to get the files into the emulation environment". Rich, were/are you trying to copy files onto some modern computer, to make use of them with modern software? Or ... copy files ... to *run* them under some emulation of say Mac System 7? Or, both? People ask me about such things often enough. It would be good if I can tell them what they may be able to do. Most people won't want to run an emulator, they just want to migrate old files or at least archive it. I always warn them of the problem of old programs that make files, that new programs can't read (even if you "copy" them over to the new computer). regards, Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine
by Richard Cini 18 Sep '20

18 Sep '20

My IIci is on the fritz (need to re-cap it), and I wanted to get some files off of my mother’s old (and long unused) Macintosh SE. I thought I’d mention this archiving path in case someone else is in the same boat. Unfortunately, it requires more than one type of Mac, and multiple ZIP drives, so if there are other possibilities, I’d like to know. I worked with only what I had on hand (i.e., I didn’t buy any extra hardware), but I’m sure there is a better way. There are several parts to this: The original Mac SE (800K floppy only) A Mac that can read/write both 800k and 1.4MB disks (since the IIci was out-of-commission, I used my PowerBook 540c). Two iomega ZIP drives. It just so happens I have both SCSI and USB versions. A more current Mac that runs OSX *prior to* Catalina (10.15) since Catalina dropped support for HFS. I have a Mac Mini that runs El Capitan (10.11). It took a bit of time to set everything up, but basically you have to get the iomega Zip Client onto the original Mac. Assuming you have no original disk, you can use HFVExplorer to put zipclient4.2 onto a 1.4MB floppy and then use the second Mac to move the file to an 800K disk. I didn’t have a spare external 1.4MB drive to test on the SE, but not sure it works without a ROM upgrade. The second part is to use the SCSI ZIP drive on the SE to copy the files to a ZIP disk. The third part is to use the USB ZIP drive on the modern Mac to get the files off of the disk. So far, so good. Then, you can use Basilisk or other emulator that can access the host’s file system to get the files into the emulation environment. The help file for HFVExplorer says it can access the ZIP drive, but I wasn’t able to get it to work. Thus, the need to use the two lifeboat Macs to get the files into the emulation environment. I thought about Stuffing the files and then using a terminal program to send them to the modern Mac, but I couldn’t get MacTerminal to work properly; maybe a better terminal program would have worked. Happy archiving! Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

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Museum Report: 9 September and 16 September 2020
by svcatitc＠aol.com 17 Sep '20

17 Sep '20

Checked in and opened up around 1p Sept 9th :: DEAD, only one older gent who had been to IA before and was considering volunteering at IA now retired. We exchanged pleasantries while discussing general computer topics. Sept 16: Two couples showed up around 1/2 hour between. 1st couple was younger, and only a medium interest. She seemed bored to tears, while he showed the most interest, which picked up when we got to the PS2 70. He wanted to know more about the bootup process. Older couple was an EXCELLENT audience, as they both had 40 years of programming experience. The wife, in the very early years, talked to Bill Gates on the phone about a programming problem she had. The husband, worked with Cray on an install in his early years. Both live in North Jersey and will be back with the grand kids. They had smiles on their faces the whole time they were in the place, reminiscing. Ray Chase stopped by to show me a military electro-mechanical computational device that had to do with pressure. Talked with some of the guys that maintain the marine wireless association exhibit next to us. Good day! Bill Inderrieden

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Altos 586 boards
by Herb Johnson 17 Sep '20

17 Sep '20

I don't normally post Ebay links. But someone is offering an Altos 586 model CPU board and Altos 986 controller board on ebay as scrap. Parts value or possible repair of an Altos may be worth the price. Vintage 1982 Altos Computer Circuit Mother Boards Chips for Scrap Gold Recovery ebay #233714235023 Ends Sept 22 Regards Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8)
by Joshua Abraham 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

>> I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, and that makes communities wither and go extinct. I couldn't help but weigh in on this. Before making snide remarks such as these it may help to make sure you have actual data to back that up. Hamfests can be rather small and boring but others are MASSIVE coordinated events with large attendance. Most notably, the annual Dayton Hamvention which had an attendance of over 32,000. This event is to hams what VCF is to us vintage computer enthusiasts. The event is hugely successful and they have a full on flea market to go along with it. Closer to my neck of the woods is the annual Shelby Hamfest, an event that's well more than a few decades old and boasts several thousand in attendance and even offers campground space for the folks they know are traveling far and bringing families along. Based on these events alone I'd say ham is alive and well and far from extinct. Personally I think the swapmeet is a fantastic idea and has much potential. -Joshua A

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Kennett Classic Dinner Afterwards Info
by Bill Degnan 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

Anyone interested in going out as a group for dinner after the event closes here is what I have so far 6PM. I have had a few people contact me already to let me know they are interested, keep them coming. I am going to speak with the restaurant owners (I know a few of them) within walking distance to see what the best deal is for us, depending on how many people we have by about Weds or so, with the assumption that there will be persons joining in at the last minute. I will try to get a group rate/deal so we can keep it simple, but *nothing is simple with COVID 19 *and I ask that you be flexible. Dinner will be outside, and I am leaning towards the Kennett Brewing Company a block away. (kennettbrewingcompany.com) because they usually have a band that night. Other options are La Verona and The Grain which also have outdoor dining. We will organize seating based on who can sit together with their masks off. If that's not practical we'll have the restaurant pack it up and we'll eat outside using the tables from the swap or as we can. Stay tuned and let me know via https//www.vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm Thanks.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Sussex hamfest and swapmeets
by Matt Reynolds 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

This is mostly anecdotal, from a fringe, barely-active member, so take it for whatever it is: I got to Hamfests on a regular enough basis, even though I'm not a ham. I've been to some of the bigger ones like Sussex and Dayton and many, many small ones. I think it's very reasonable to say that it's a dying hobby, but is not dead. There's just more to do from a hobby standpoint than ever before, and only so much time in the day, and only so much time on the planet to live your life. There may be more members now, but there are more people on the planet now as well, and part of the boom rush in getting more members was dropping the Morse Code requirements. I'm in a different vintage electronics club and many of them have said that they never bothered to learn, or waited until the code requirement dropped before they took the test. Of course it's evolved, more digital and exotic than it was in the past. Less heavy boatanchors, more things that look more like computer parts than radio parts. More computer related than ever before. I've been to many estate sales of "silent keys" as well. The only people I see buying the heavy ham gear are other hams, which are most of the time within the same age range as the silent key who just passed. Very seldom do I see young guys at those types of sale picking up their first set of gear to get on the air with. The hamfest attendance still seems to me to be in the vast majority men, 50s and above to almost every fest i've been to. Are there younger men, women, kids? Absolutely (I'm not even in my 40s yet). Are they deliberately exclusive? no. There's just not a lot of enticement for anyone else to go to them unless they are already interested in the topic. I go primarily because the trend seems to be for most hams to buy some very expensive new rig that is small, not heavy, and does more, and the vintage stuff, including their test equipment, and quite often computer\consumer electronics, goes to the sale with them alongside their old boatanchor radios. The mentality of "this hamfest is not as big as it used to be" mentality seems to be something I've heard at almost every one I've ever attended, including Dayton, and is something that is brought up without ever mentioning it or asking about it. The toxicity of that mentality and similar companion attitudes in the hobby have been part of the reason I haven't prioritized taking the cert exams. I've never been "talked down to" by elders in any other enthusiast group as often as at hamfests. Asking questions seems to give you a gruff brush-off more often than it should, and more often than I encounter at other swap meets (car parts shows, coin-op shows, antique shows, collectible shows, etc.). It's a really strange phenomenon, because some of my best friends are hams and are on the opposite side of that mentality spectrum. The old fixture of the hobby, an "Elmer" or graybeard-like person there to help teach the others seems to be harder and harder to find at hamfests, because there are so many of the naysayers there polluting it for the Elmers. It doesn't take much to turn people off to a hobby when someone is only mildly curious to begin with. Many times I've thought to myself, why would I bother to get certified to get on the air to talk to grumpy old people talk about how things aren't as good as they used to be and brag about how expensive their radio is? I realize that it is not the only thing that happens, but I've encountered more of the grumps than the Elmers. Back to the original point, I can also see why having a swap meet takes away from an event where you are having exhibits and panels. I've been to other shows that have both at the same time, and I often feel torn between digging through the treasure and watching the panels or events. Maybe you are pondering whether to buy something or not, and while you are thinking about it you go to a panel, and you spend half the panel whether or not you should go buy that thing, or whether it's still there, etc. On the flipside, you have stuff you don't want anymore, you want to get rid of it. It's esoteric and the audience that knows what it is doesn't walk into the flea market everyday, online sales are not always attractive, etc. Seems like the best idea would be to have a separate event that was just a swap meet? Based on the replies already sent back and forth on this topic, there seems to be plenty of demand for one. Regards, Matt nocallletters On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 1:07 PM Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > I’d like to say that you guys (Girls) put on a very good Hamfest, it is > unfortunate that this year it had to be canceled. > > I have been going there probably for the better part of 20 years, selling > and buying. > All of my friends who are into radio equipment have found some really good > deals there. > > I must say that you guys have the most diverse Hamfest/swap meet in NJ. > > Mike Rosen > > Looking forward to going next year. > > > > Sent from: > My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > > > On Sep 16, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Leavitt via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > Not to flog a deceased equine but... > > Sussex County NJ is home to a great hamfest too. > > > > We have over a thousand buyers through the gates and over 200 sellers. > Ann and I usually run the kitchen. We see all kinds of folks. > > > > 73 de KE2L > > > > ________________________________ > > From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> on > behalf of Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 10:33 PM > > To: W2HX via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > Cc: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - > Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) > > > > > > Butler, PA is in the middle of nowhere and generally consists of an > > odd mix of farmers and meth addicts, but there's one hell of a hamfest > > there every year. I too thought hamfests had pretty much died, but then > > I was very happily corrected! I never miss that one. > > > > Of course, every year at the Butler hamfest I run across constipated > > old men standing around complaining about how ham radio (not hamfests, > > but ham radio) is dying. Sometimes I'm in a snarky enough mood to > > interrupt and inform them that it's bigger than it ever has been, but I > > usually just shake my head and leave them to their bran muffins. > > > > -Dave > > > >> On 9/15/20 9:41 AM, W2HX via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > >> I'll pile on 'cause I'm a ham (don't mess with us! Haha). > >> > >> I frequently attend NEARfest which is a spring and fall hamfest event > in the New England area. I don’t know the exact attendance numbers but if I > had to guess I would say "a few thousand" when the weather is good. There > are more hams licensed with the FCC today than ever before in history. Over > 760,000 in the US alone (according to Wikipedia). > >> > >> And growing! > http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202014.jpg > >> > >> Worldwide the number is about 3,000,000 (again according to Wikipedia). > I wonder how many vintage computer hobbyists exist the world? Maybe we > should learn something from the hams. > >> > >> 73 Eugene W2HX > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On > Behalf Of Joshua Abraham via vcf-midatlantic > >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:47 PM > >> To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > >> Cc: Joshua Abraham <jarvideo(a)gmail.com> > >> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - > Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) > >> > >>>> I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many > >> families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, > and that makes communities wither and go extinct. > >> > >> I couldn't help but weigh in on this. Before making snide remarks such > as these it may help to make sure you have actual data to back that up. > >> Hamfests can be rather small and boring but others are MASSIVE > coordinated events with large attendance. Most notably, the annual Dayton > Hamvention which had an attendance of over 32,000. This event is to hams > what VCF is to us vintage computer enthusiasts. The event is hugely > successful and they have a full on flea market to go along with it. > >> > >> Closer to my neck of the woods is the annual Shelby Hamfest, an event > that's well more than a few decades old and boasts several thousand in > attendance and even offers campground space for the folks they know are > traveling far and bringing families along. > >> > >> Based on these events alone I'd say ham is alive and well and far from > extinct. > >> > >> Personally I think the swapmeet is a fantastic idea and has much > potential. > >> -Joshua A > >> > > > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > > New Kensington, PA > >

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Sussex hamfest and swapmeets
by Sentrytv 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

I’d like to say that you guys (Girls) put on a very good Hamfest, it is unfortunate that this year it had to be canceled. I have been going there probably for the better part of 20 years, selling and buying. All of my friends who are into radio equipment have found some really good deals there. I must say that you guys have the most diverse Hamfest/swap meet in NJ. Mike Rosen Looking forward to going next year. Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > On Sep 16, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Leavitt via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > Not to flog a deceased equine but... > Sussex County NJ is home to a great hamfest too. > > We have over a thousand buyers through the gates and over 200 sellers. Ann and I usually run the kitchen. We see all kinds of folks. > > 73 de KE2L > > ________________________________ > From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> on behalf of Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 10:33 PM > To: W2HX via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Cc: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) > > > Butler, PA is in the middle of nowhere and generally consists of an > odd mix of farmers and meth addicts, but there's one hell of a hamfest > there every year. I too thought hamfests had pretty much died, but then > I was very happily corrected! I never miss that one. > > Of course, every year at the Butler hamfest I run across constipated > old men standing around complaining about how ham radio (not hamfests, > but ham radio) is dying. Sometimes I'm in a snarky enough mood to > interrupt and inform them that it's bigger than it ever has been, but I > usually just shake my head and leave them to their bran muffins. > > -Dave > >> On 9/15/20 9:41 AM, W2HX via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >> I'll pile on 'cause I'm a ham (don't mess with us! Haha). >> >> I frequently attend NEARfest which is a spring and fall hamfest event in the New England area. I don’t know the exact attendance numbers but if I had to guess I would say "a few thousand" when the weather is good. There are more hams licensed with the FCC today than ever before in history. Over 760,000 in the US alone (according to Wikipedia). >> >> And growing! http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202014.jpg >> >> Worldwide the number is about 3,000,000 (again according to Wikipedia). I wonder how many vintage computer hobbyists exist the world? Maybe we should learn something from the hams. >> >> 73 Eugene W2HX >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Joshua Abraham via vcf-midatlantic >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:47 PM >> To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org >> Cc: Joshua Abraham <jarvideo(a)gmail.com> >> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) >> >>>> I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many >> families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, and that makes communities wither and go extinct. >> >> I couldn't help but weigh in on this. Before making snide remarks such as these it may help to make sure you have actual data to back that up. >> Hamfests can be rather small and boring but others are MASSIVE coordinated events with large attendance. Most notably, the annual Dayton Hamvention which had an attendance of over 32,000. This event is to hams what VCF is to us vintage computer enthusiasts. The event is hugely successful and they have a full on flea market to go along with it. >> >> Closer to my neck of the woods is the annual Shelby Hamfest, an event that's well more than a few decades old and boasts several thousand in attendance and even offers campground space for the folks they know are traveling far and bringing families along. >> >> Based on these events alone I'd say ham is alive and well and far from extinct. >> >> Personally I think the swapmeet is a fantastic idea and has much potential. >> -Joshua A >> > > > -- > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > New Kensington, PA

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Not quite so linked lists (of books)
by Herb Johnson 15 Sep '20

15 Sep '20

Pardon me, Adam, but I'm a little challenged by your proposal and discussion and how it's progressing. First - it's so open ended and vague. What kind of vintage computing, do you want these book-readers to be interested in, or become interested in? What do you want them to do with that interest? What is the audience, what people, do you want to reach with that interest - who are they, what experiences or age or knowledge do you expect them to have? And what's your goal, your end result, your benefit, and for whom? Remember, you aren't just some person asking for books to read. I presume you have goals for VCFed Incorporated, or the museum at Infoage, or maybe something you personally or professionally are working on. But I don't know! and, pardon me - I have decades of computing experience. There's 40 or more years of "vintage computers" around from my own life; and older computers still. Plus all kinds of uses they were used for, ways they can be used now, things people do with them. Or they make their own vintage-class computers. Or they repair the old stuff, or hot-rod 'em. For each activity, there's some kind of entry point, something one can read about and get interested. That's point one - I don't know your plans, your interests, except as you tell people why their books won't work for you. Or any other details that inform me about a list YOU want for your purposes - as you seemed to indicate. Someone suggested a book with technical content; you said it would "scare off the average person". I'm of two minds about that thought. My initial reaction, as a technical person myself, is to be rude and say "scare off average persons? *good*, weed them out early". I'm not average. Many of the people I know in vintage computing, are not "average", many of them have extraordinary skills or interests, or enthusiasms. And: are the people in those suggested books, "average"? Are they doing "average" things? NOt at the time, that's why there's a book about 'em! And is working with old computers now, an "average" kind of thing? And: If you are looking for readers, to do things or be interested in things, or at least be interesting - why target books for *average persons*? What's up with "average"? Along those lines: knowledge of Windows 10 and OS X as a kind of credential? That's essentially a license to steer a modern computer. As soon as such a person sees a command line, or a program listing, or a computer chip - do you expect them to be particularly comfortable? I find, quite frankly, I have to talk people *out of their Windows expectations* as they deal with problems with their vintage computers. What they expect, isn't what happens, isn't how they work. Finally: there's people of all kinds of ages and skills-sets, that may want to look at vintage computing in some way. A particular book, may be a point of entry - depends on that person, and the book's content and context. IF that's your goal. This "average person" thing, and what you think "vintage computing" is about, and what you want some book to accomplish for someone - that all leaves me perplexed. But of course, the museum at Infoage attracts all kinds of people who visit it. Many of them are "average" in some way - or seem that way. Maybe you are trying to do some outreach, some kind of educational thing. Or maybe you want bland-non-technical books about great heroes in technology - gripping narratives that will hold the interest of most anyone. I dunno! So I'm back to square one. If all you want is a conversation, well, be fair about that and say so. Anyone can have some favorite books for some particular reason, if they want to chat about both. And Adam, if you have real goals and intentions, and specific interests, be clear about them when asking for a list from me. Then I can decide if I have some books worth YOUR interests to read, and my interests to write about. Regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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KennettClassic 1 Year Anniv / Swap 9/26
by Bill Degnan 15 Sep '20

15 Sep '20

1 year anniversary new exhibits and swap It will be 73 degrees and sunny Spaces still available. 484 732 7041 Please help support this project, COVID has been rough we can use a boost from the vcf community to help build the local hobby community. Benefits all. https://www.kennettclassic.com/kennett-classic-in-two-weeks-sept-26-2020/ Thanks Bill

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Mac SE PRAM battery - replace with a holder
by Richard Cini 15 Sep '20

15 Sep '20

I just dug out my old Mac SE to check the battery and it needs replacing. In the SE, it’s soldered to the motherboard. I have replacements, both with leads (the original) and without (to be used with a holder). Other than not being original, any concerns or pitfalls with this approach? I couldn’t think of any but I thought I’d throw it to the group. I still need to check the clearance on the cage, though. Rich http://www.classiccmp.org/cini Long Island S100 User’s Group Get Outlook<https://aka.ms/qtex0l> for iOS

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Not quite so linked lists (of books)
by Adam Michlin 14 Sep '20

14 Sep '20

Hi Everyone, I'm embarking on a, hopefully fun, project to create lists of books for various vintage computer related projects. The first one is as broad as them come: What five books would you recommend to someone completely new to the hobby? Parameters: Let us assume the people are adults (children's books will be a separate discussion). Books can be currently published or vintage.. physical or digital... Let us also assume the readers have a basic understanding of how to use a standard (say Windows 10 or macOS) computer. If possible, please include why you think the book should be on the list. I'll be buying (the ones I do not own) the most (quantity and quality) recommended books, reading them, compiling my recommendation for the final list, posting it here for people to tear apart, and then ultimately posting it publicly in an appropriate space. Please post to the list so that other people can see your recommendations (and maybe even find a book they want to buy!). Oh, and feel free to recommend even just one book. The more information the merrier! Thanks! -Adam

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Not quite so linked lists (of books)
by Ken 14 Sep '20

14 Sep '20

At 9/13/2020 06:44 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >Racing the Beam by Ian Bogost and Nick Montfort: About Atari a great game >making company. Also shows how hard it was to program games back then. Racing the Beam was a fantastic book. It wasn't about Atari the company. It was about the Atari 2600/VCS as a technical platform, and was a really compelling technical study about the interplay between a platform and what's created for it. It focused on the machine's architecture, and then on a few titles written for it, each highlighting something fascinating about platforms. While technical, it was also accessible. It's one of my top-favorite technical studies of all time. And, if you're not already familiar with the 2600's design, it does really heighten one's appreciation for how intensely challenging programming for it was, and how impressive those developers were. It looks like this is my second-ever message to this listserv responding to Jeffrey on the subject of this book. Five years ago, I wrote this: Jeffrey, I strongly second Adam's recommendation of "Racing the Beam: The Atari Video Computer System," written in 2009 by Nick Montfort and Ian Bogost. https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/racing-beam I found it well written and well researched. It gets technical enough to be interesting, without getting too technical to scare anyone off. I would love to read another book as similarly compelling. (It didn't read like a dissertation to me!) There have been many books like "The Soul of a New Machine" ("Dreaming in Code," etc.) which are all about the people and politics behind the development of a system. But "Racing the Beam" was primarily about the system itself, and it focused brilliantly on the most compelling and instructive moments in the evolution of 1977's Atari 2600 platform. You will learn just how stupendously hard it was to program for that platform. And, to the authors' goal, you will learn how significant a platform itself is, and what kind of heroics it takes to move beyond the constraints and intended capabilities of a platform. Here are a couple of excerpts, which illustrate what it was like to work on a system that had no operating system, nor even a concept of a 2-dimensional screen grid to write to: ...the VCS programmer must draw each frame of a programs display manually to the screen, synchronizing the 6507 processor instruc- tions to the televisions electron gun via the TIA. The program has a small amount of time to change the TIA settings via its numerous addressable registers. This can happen when the electron beam resets to draw a new line (this period is called horizontal blank), or when it moves back up to the top to draw a new screen (a period called vertical blank). The program must also explicitly instruct the TIA to wait for the horizontal blank or to initiate the vertical blank, which involves keeping track of how much time the instructions take to execute on a single line, between lines, and between frames. Programming the Atari VCS means drawing every line of the television display individually, making decisions about how to change the display on a line-by-line basis rather than setting up a screen- ful of pixels all at once. This task requires that the programmer write carefully timed code that fits the motion of the televisions electron beam. Some graphical effects demand changes to the TIAs registers in the middle of a single scan line. In these cases, the programmer must care- fully cycle count processor instructions so they execute at the right time. While racing the beam is a catchier name, pacing the beam is more apt, since the program might have to be sped up or slowed down. [...] The basic flow of Combat follows the progress of the TVs electron beam, busily preparing each line that is to be drawn while the current one is appearing on the screen. During the vertical blanking interval, as the beam moves from the bottom of the screen to the top, the VCS running Combat does the computation necessary to process input, deal with game logic, and update the score if necessary. The first routine in Combats main loop checks the position of the VCS console switches. A game can be reset at any time, so it is necessary to check these controls each frame. This routine allows different game variations to be selectedif a game is not already in progressand, if a game is in progress, it also checks to see whether time is almost up and the score should be blinking. This routine also underscores the fact that the programmer is responsible for handling every interaction on the machine. The Atari VCS has no operating system to intercept inputs and respond to common ones. Thus, even though the reset switch is clearly labeled reset on the console cabinet, it is up to each cartridge programmer to write a program that responds to the switch being pressed. The programmer can choose to have a cartridge do something other than reset the game when the reset switch is closed, just as different games might use the joystick button for different actions. Although this was rare, there are examples of games that override the function of the console switches as printed on the console. - Ken

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8)
by Evan Koblentz 13 Sep '20

13 Sep '20

>> you can’t Poopoo the idea, since this is the first time we actually are going to have it. I didn't poopoo the concept, I replied to the comment that accused me of being against all swap meets, because that was out of context. I was against a swap meet * during VCF East * because it would have hurt the main attraction of the show.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8)
by Andrew Diller 13 Sep '20

13 Sep '20

I thought the swap meet in the big room was an awesome addition to Festivus. It was very popular as a lot of things moved and the light show was really cool. There is room for a triad of yearly 'big' events at InfoAge for VCF: 1. Festival 2. Festivus 3. Swapmeet -andy > On Sep 13, 2020, at 3:48 PM, Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > I would like people who participated in that event to weigh in and voice their opinion, > if that mini-swap meet was good or not? >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8)
by Alexander Pierson 13 Sep '20

13 Sep '20

I'm going to have to concur with Evan's concern of swapmeets taking precedence over established VCF activities should they coincide with one another, in that I would not like to see that element overshadow the show aspect. I would be most disappointed to see the event's focus shift to sales of items. However, for quite a few years now, I've seen many exchanges of equipment already happen at a VCF outside of the scope of the consignment room. Pre-arranged private exchanges are commonplace at our events, and they're an inescapable element of what we do as a hobby. Heck, an open swap meet was even sanctioned at Festivus, but that's not in the middle of a Festival. Seeing as we are in the middle of a pandemic, I don't imagine the turnout for such a swapmeet is going to be all that much different from a workshop. You'll have your few dedicated folks who can take the time to haul some stuff over, but that's about it. The draw of a large yearly event (Festival or Festivus) brings people from far and wide to visit with their fellow hobbyists, so people feel if they're making the trip for that, might as well load up the car with spare goodies and find a better home for some of it. Don't treat the turnout for such an event as a litmus test of a normal year. Cautious folks such as myself will simply wait it out for fairer health climates (you're welcome to call me overly cautious, I don't care). tl;dr: bigger events are great, but not if they're changing why we meet in the first place. -Alexander 'Z' Pierson On Sunday, September 13, 2020, 03:30:50 PM EDT, Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: Evan There is no doubt that everybody has a right to their opinion. You and I had this conversation as well. I believe that a swap meet is a good thing and besides you can’t Poopoo the idea, since this is the first time we actually are going to have it. We’ll give it a try and if it doesn’t work out we don’t have it again. Certainly can’t hurt to try. Besides because everybody’s been locked up inside, no Hamfest, no swapmeets, people are Jonesin’ for a swap meet! Mike Rosen Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > On Sep 13, 2020, at 2:28 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan(a)snarc.net> wrote: > > >>> In years past, I pushed for a swap meet with previous management but the response was "It would be too much like a hamfest and hamfests are dying". > > That's out of context. > > Several people in the group asked for a swap meet * during * VCF East. I declined, because many of these people wanted to have a swap meet table instead of exhibiting. That would have damaged the exhibit hall and replaced much of it with something attractive only to people who are already in the hobby. > > It would have contributed to shrinking the hobby. My goal was to grow the hobby by introducing it to the public. > > Consignment was a (very successful) compromise. It let everyone sell stuff without taking away from the exhibit hall and also making some extra money for the group. > > I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, and that makes communities wither and go extinct. > > You're able to have a swapmeet this year only because management is not bogged down running the real show. > > VCF's success is because of my earlier decisions, not in spite of them. > > > > > > >>> On Sep 13, 2020, Jeff Galinat via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> Hi Adam, >> Excellent! Even though I am a little bummed as I live in AZ now instead >> of NJ, this is great news! Swap meets have been a large part of the >> vintage >> computer and ham radio communities for years. I still find occasional >> vintage computer items at hamfests but a vintage computer swap meet >> would >> be great for the hobby. In years past, I pushed for a swap meet with >> previous management but the response was "It would be too much like a >> hamfest and hamfests are dying". >> One of the largest draws for TCF was the flea market and I had many >> great >> finds over the years but they effectively killed the flea market by >> moving >> it in to a small room. >> I still have a good amount of vintage equipment in NJ so maybe I can >> participate in a future event if it happens next year. >> Best of luck with the event, >> Jeff >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 9:32 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < >> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>> Hi Everyone, >>> Alas, there will be no consignment at our hybrid VCF East coming up, >> but >>> we have decided to try something new and have an *outdoor* Swap Meet. >>> Vendors (which can be individuals) will be able to rent space and >> people >>> will be able to attend the event for the very modest fee of $5. All >> VCF >>> surplus will also be on sale at this event. >>> DATE: Saturday, November 7, with Rain Date Sunday, November 8 >>> TIME: 9AM TO 6PM >>> Location: InfoAge, 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719 >>> $20 for vendors for first space, $10 for each additional space. 4 >> spaces >>> max - BRING YOUR OWN TABLES/BLANKETS/WHATEVER >>> $5 for admissions for general public >>> We want to emphasize this will be an *outdoor* event >> I'm particulary excited about this because, back in the 1990s, my first >>> stint (habit, if you prefer) of vintage computer collecting was >>> supported by attending regular computer swap meets in Silicon Valley >> at >>> De Anza College and Lawrence Livermore Labs. The enthusiam at >>> consignment each year tells me we are ripe to bring something like >> this >>> back on a regular basis, but, of course, COVID make things trickier >> than >>> usual. >>> Best wishes, >>> -Adam

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8)
by Sentrytv 13 Sep '20

13 Sep '20

Evan There is no doubt that everybody has a right to their opinion. You and I had this conversation as well. I believe that a swap meet is a good thing and besides you can’t Poopoo the idea, since this is the first time we actually are going to have it. We’ll give it a try and if it doesn’t work out we don’t have it again. Certainly can’t hurt to try. Besides because everybody’s been locked up inside, no Hamfest, no swapmeets, people are Jonesin’ for a swap meet! Mike Rosen Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > On Sep 13, 2020, at 2:28 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan(a)snarc.net> wrote: > > >>> In years past, I pushed for a swap meet with previous management but the response was "It would be too much like a hamfest and hamfests are dying". > > That's out of context. > > Several people in the group asked for a swap meet * during * VCF East. I declined, because many of these people wanted to have a swap meet table instead of exhibiting. That would have damaged the exhibit hall and replaced much of it with something attractive only to people who are already in the hobby. > > It would have contributed to shrinking the hobby. My goal was to grow the hobby by introducing it to the public. > > Consignment was a (very successful) compromise. It let everyone sell stuff without taking away from the exhibit hall and also making some extra money for the group. > > I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, and that makes communities wither and go extinct. > > You're able to have a swapmeet this year only because management is not bogged down running the real show. > > VCF's success is because of my earlier decisions, not in spite of them. > > > > > > >>> On Sep 13, 2020, Jeff Galinat via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> Hi Adam, >> Excellent! Even though I am a little bummed as I live in AZ now instead >> of NJ, this is great news! Swap meets have been a large part of the >> vintage >> computer and ham radio communities for years. I still find occasional >> vintage computer items at hamfests but a vintage computer swap meet >> would >> be great for the hobby. In years past, I pushed for a swap meet with >> previous management but the response was "It would be too much like a >> hamfest and hamfests are dying". >> One of the largest draws for TCF was the flea market and I had many >> great >> finds over the years but they effectively killed the flea market by >> moving >> it in to a small room. >> I still have a good amount of vintage equipment in NJ so maybe I can >> participate in a future event if it happens next year. >> Best of luck with the event, >> Jeff >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 9:32 AM Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < >> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>> Hi Everyone, >>> Alas, there will be no consignment at our hybrid VCF East coming up, >> but >>> we have decided to try something new and have an *outdoor* Swap Meet. >>> Vendors (which can be individuals) will be able to rent space and >> people >>> will be able to attend the event for the very modest fee of $5. All >> VCF >>> surplus will also be on sale at this event. >>> DATE: Saturday, November 7, with Rain Date Sunday, November 8 >>> TIME: 9AM TO 6PM >>> Location: InfoAge, 2201 Marconi Road Wall, NJ 07719 >>> $20 for vendors for first space, $10 for each additional space. 4 >> spaces >>> max - BRING YOUR OWN TABLES/BLANKETS/WHATEVER >>> $5 for admissions for general public >>> We want to emphasize this will be an *outdoor* event >> I'm particulary excited about this because, back in the 1990s, my first >>> stint (habit, if you prefer) of vintage computer collecting was >>> supported by attending regular computer swap meets in Silicon Valley >> at >>> De Anza College and Lawrence Livermore Labs. The enthusiam at >>> consignment each year tells me we are ripe to bring something like >> this >>> back on a regular basis, but, of course, COVID make things trickier >> than >>> usual. >>> Best wishes, >>> -Adam

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8)
by Adam Michlin 13 Sep '20

13 Sep '20

Rather that directly respond to the thread, I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that if you feel the Steering Committee is going in a good direction, or a bad direction, now is the time to think about running for the two open Steering Committee positions that will very soon be up for election (Tony Bogan's and mine. I'm not running because I now live in South Carolina. If Tony doesn't run, I'm going to fly up and dump all his Apple IIs off his boat - don't think I'm joking and, yes, I know I'll be forcibly joining them in the ocean!). Details of the Steering Committee By Laws and election logistics are literally being worked on right now and will be posted as soon as possible. Please consider being a candidate if you think Swap Meets are a good idea! Please consider being a candidate if you think Swap Meets are a bad idea! Heck, consider being a candidate if you don't care one bit either way about Swap Meets! -Adam On 9/13/2020 3:30 PM, Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > Evan > There is no doubt that everybody has a right to their opinion. > > You and I had this conversation as well. > > I believe that a swap meet is a good thing and besides you can’t Poopoo the idea, > since this is the first time we actually are going to have it. > We’ll give it a try and if it doesn’t work out we don’t have it again. > Certainly can’t hurt to try. > > Besides because everybody’s been locked up inside, no Hamfest, no swapmeets, people are Jonesin’ for a swap meet! > > Mike Rosen

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Even our Xerox Star hates 2020
by Adam Michlin 13 Sep '20

13 Sep '20

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFE2PegnExs/ And, BTW, it lives! Thanks to David Gesswein, Ian Primus, an anonymous mouse donor found with the help of CHM, DigiBarn's scanned pdfs of the required *custom mouse pad* (which you can print... *phew*), and a whole bunch of other people. Federation! Lots more content on the way.

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VCF MidWest Watch Party Tomorrow @ CDL (InfoAge)
by Jeffrey Brace 12 Sep '20

12 Sep '20

I will setup the projector, screen and my laptop for a watch party during our workshop tomorrow. Looks like MidWest starts at 10:45AM Eastern Time. Any objections? -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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Breakfast Order for Repair Workshop 9/13 Sunday morning
by svcatitc＠aol.com 12 Sep '20

12 Sep '20

I did a review of what happened concerning last workshop's Sunday breakfast. I got the revised order from Jeff, however someone signed up last minute on the Google list, leaving one breakfast sandwich short with the order on Sunday morn. This is no one's fault, and my apologies to Alex J. for going hungry and signals crossed.. To alleviate this problem this weekend, I will only use the Google list and will view it finally by 11pm on Saturday night. Insure that your B'fast orders are in by then, After 11pm, I will not look back. Bill Inderrieden

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Need monitor for workshop
by Jeffrey Brace 12 Sep '20

12 Sep '20

Someone new (Doug Megill) to the workshop would like to know if anyone coming to the workshop has a monitor that works with a SGI Octane2 and a Sun Ultra 60 that both need help. We might have this in the VCF warehouse, but I would need to know model to see if we have one. Can anyone tell me?-- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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Breakfast Order for Repair Workshop 9/13 Sunday morning
by Jeffrey Brace 11 Sep '20

11 Sep '20

*Sunday Morning 9/13 at 10AM*: Bagel order from Delicious Bagels ( https://www.deliciousbagelspointpleasant.com/) If you are interested then fill out order here: < https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MR8t6lHGraOwd5NiQA0oGzm-GauVQA5j6-a… > Breakfast isn't free, you *must* pay Bill Inderrieden on Sunday. Last time someone took Alex order and didn't pay. -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783 -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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Dinner Signup for Repair Workshop 9/12
by Jeffrey Brace 11 Sep '20

11 Sep '20

*Saturday Night 9/12*: Applebees (Tinton Falls) Signup here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BO_JyNgDfebd1hgsKEQTcZUXdexQrCwSEUP… Usually we will meet there by 7:30PM -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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B205 tape drive (reduced)
by Herb Johnson 11 Sep '20

11 Sep '20

> The Burroughs B205 tape drive in South Carolina ... > This was originally part of Claude Kagan's B205 system. I contacted Mike Loewen because of my continuing interest in Claude Kagan's legacy: https://www.retrotechnology.com/restore/kagan.html Mike filled me in with the details of the tape drive's history, and I have my own knowledge of Claude's legacy. I produced the following Web page accordingly, and linked to it from my memorial Web page. https://www.retrotechnology.com/restore/kagan/b205_tape.html Currently it tracks those tape drives and other things Claude dispersed from the Burroughs B-205 systems he obtained. I'll add later, photos and notes about the B-205 and its loss in the barn fire several years ago. There's some interest in ancient mainframes, and few of the vaccum-tube era digital systems still exist. So materials on the B-205 are worth preserving. Regards, Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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LSI-11 simulator (looking for the author)
by Richard Cini 11 Sep '20

11 Sep '20

All – I’m cleaning out my shop (I will have a “to go” list at some point) and going through magazine articles I saved. One peaked my interest, from Circuit Cellar (7/1996) by Robert W. Meister, was an LSI-11 simulator. I liked working on my Altair32 project, so I thought this would be good to play with. I was able to find the original simulator code from the article and it compiles under MS-DOS with only minor changes, but it has certain compromises regarding the hardware memory addresses and return codes that require it to use a custom RT-11 boot diskette (it has a custom DX.SYS, I’m guessing). I’ve done quite a bit of Googling about the simulator and the author (who worked for the NASD at the time he wrote the article), but haven’t come up with much additional information. Yes, I could easily use SIMH instead, but this is a fun project to work on to keep the mind busy. I guess I have four options: move memory around and see if the default DX.SYS will work; write a custom DX.SYS and make a new image using SIMH (way beyond me); continue to hunt down the author and see if he has any of the original files; give up and just use SIMH. If anyone is interested, I can send a PDF of the article. It’s actually a neatly-written program, and the ODT works fine. Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

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article on TRS-80 in Nuts and Volts
by W2HX 11 Sep '20

11 Sep '20

Don't know if anyone gets/reads this old rag but I thought I'd share an article I came across: https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/the-trs-80-model-1 73 Eugene W2HX

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vVCF Midwest Schdule
by Jason T 11 Sep '20

11 Sep '20

Hello to our east-coast friends! Many of you have probably heard about our attempt to virtualize our show via other channels, but I figured I would drop a note here as well that our schedule has been posted: http://vcfmw.org/virtual.html We'll be presenting videos from community members sequentially throughout the day Saturday, using YouTube's "Premiere" feature, as well as keeping an open chat going on a bridged IRC/Discord channel. A low-key affair for a likely rainy Saturday in the Midwest. We'd love to have you join us, but the videos will of course remain posted on our YouTube channel for those who would like to check them out later (or again!) -jt -- vcfmw.org / chiclassiccomp.org / nocarrier.net

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Rescue in Delran, NJ
by Jeffrey Brace 10 Sep '20

10 Sep '20

Anyone coming to the workshop this weekend interested in helping pickup some items from Delran, NJ? I have two people helping to pickup, but I might need more depending on the space in their vehicles. Send me a message privately. Thanks! -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] LSI-11 simulator
by Herb Johnson 10 Sep '20

10 Sep '20

> No RT-11 disk image I’ve used will boot, > I was hoping someone could point me to a listing of what the on-disk boot block code on an RT-11 floppy might look like. Rich, I don't understand your problem. If you have access to RT-11 disk images on the Web, my guess is some of them are "bootable". By "bootable" that means by your account, they have PDP11 boot code on their first sector. If they have boot code on their first sector - then extract the first sector and *hand disassemble the binary*. Then you know what that code quote "looks like". 256 words (512 bytes) is just a handful of disassembly work - hardly worth bothering to run an emulator to run some debugger to produce some PDP-11 code. and you seem so deep into this custom emulator and the LSI-11 architecture, that you seem to know what you'd need to make sense of the boot code. I'm familiar with PDP-11's a little, it's not horrendous binary code. YOu also say, this emulator apparently needs a custom RT-11, presumably with custom boot code. But the creator doesn't recall the details. Well, 24 years is a long time to remember such things. That being the case, you will have to figure out the boot process anyway. You already have to dig into the emulator. And you seem to know the hardware. Thus doing the hand disassembly will be, er, "informative". What am I missing here? Do you need some known bootable RT-11 diskettes, so you can put one in some drive and read off the boot sector? Or someone to send you that binary or disk image? Likewise: > It’s like looking for a disassembly of the MS-DOS boot sector. (snort) MS-DOS DEBUG will do that, with a IBM PC tech manual in hand. I don't mean to belabor the point, but maybe this is as I suspect: a desire to avoid hand-disassembly. If that's a personal issue, my apologies, but I think it's a very useful skill. And if it's not a desirable task, well, there's usually debuggers which do that, or one can cobble up a disassembler in one's favorite language (or borrow one and rework it). I've done all those things, and still do, but that's just me. Puzzled, Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Soda and Water for repair workshop
by Jeffrey Brace 09 Sep '20

09 Sep '20

I got the soda and water for the repair workshop. If anyone has any preferences for next time, then let me know. This time there was a sale on both Coke and Pepsi. I know that people really like Mountain Dew so I got that again. This is what I got for this time: Coke, Diet Coke, Coke Zero, Diet Pepsi, Mountain Dew, Pepsi Max. -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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September 11th exhibit @ InfoAge
by Jeffrey Brace 09 Sep '20

09 Sep '20

Volunteers at InfoAge are doing their grand opening of their September 11th memorial exhibit this weekend on September 12th. I got a sneak peek at it and it's really a great tribute and memorial. I encourage everyone to stop by and see the exhibit. I helped them with technical assistance in getting a digital playback machine to play a slideshow automatically. -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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Info for Repair Workshop 9/12 & 9/13
by Jeffrey Brace 09 Sep '20

09 Sep '20

Remember the spaces are first come first serve to the CDL space. We have a limit of how many we can fit in there. Otherwise members will have to go to the 9032-A where we used to have our workshops. The workshop is $10 *per* person, *per* day. This is InfoAge's rule and not our decision. So that means for two days it is $20. Sign up to guarantee a table. DATE: September 12 & 13, 2020 LOCATION (two locations): InfoAge: 2201 Marconi Road, Wall Township, NJ 1) Building 9059 (CDL Hackerspace - Formerly IXR) AND 2) Building 9032-A (Old workshop area in main building) TIME: Saturday START time == 10 A.M. END time == 11PM. Sunday START time == 10 A.M. and END == 5 P.M. SIGNUP: < https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QPWVJSRL94SdHKtmkUmH6WESwckeXbn8PgV… > Workshop area is limited to 10 people per building and facemasks are required. Hand sanitizer is available. COST: - $10 per person, PER day. This is required by InfoAge for us to pay for renting the space. - $25 for those wanting to stay overnight (Money goes to InfoAge). Please pay ME (Jeff Brace) upon arrival. Cash or PayPal is acceptable as payment. Ask ahead of time if you need to use a credit card. OVERNIGHT: Bring your own pillow, blankets, soap etc. We provide a bed frame and an uncovered mattress. There are showers and a kitchen for your use. - You can pay via PayPal to paypal(a)vcfed.org. or to me via cash or credit card in person. EQUIPMENT: - VCF will provide a table and you can use any available electrical outlet. - Bring your own tools, power strips, power cords, and supplies etc. - If you need particular tools that you don't know or particular parts, please post to the list for those going. They may have what you need. Let them know ahead of time. - Please bring an extra power strip to lend to someone that forgot. DRINKS: You should bring your own. We have a refrigerator in CDL to keep them cold. VCF will buy some water and soft drinks for member use. FOOD: *Saturday afternoon*: Pizza from Attilios (Tinton Falls) *Saturday Night*: Applebees (Tinton Falls) signup here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BO_JyNgDfebd1hgsKEQTcZUXdexQrCwSEUP… *Sunday Morning*: Bagel order from Delicious Bagels ( https://www.deliciousbagelspointpleasant.com/) Fill out Order here: < https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MR8t6lHGraOwd5NiQA0oGzm-GauVQA5j6-a… > *Sunday Afternoon*: Wawa order GATE: Please close the gate behind you at all times. We want to discourage random strangers from wandering the campus. We have had this happen numerous times. PARKING: Park in the main parking lot, unless you are unloading. Don't park on the lawn. QUESTIONS? Contact Jeff: 732-759-1783 jeffrey(a)vcfed.org Have fun everyone! -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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Searchlight BBS questions
by Richard Cini 08 Sep '20

08 Sep '20

Is there anyone on-list with experience setting-up a Searchlight BBS? I have mine up and running with multiple dial-up nodes (for a hopeful future demonstration) but I’m having problems with setting up the file areas. If someone could drop me a note off-list, I’d appreciate it. Thanks. Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

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Vulcan Database manual
by Jack Rubin 08 Sep '20

08 Sep '20

I have a copy of the Vulcan Database manual (no software). Vulcan was the database Wayne Ratliff created and then licensed to Ashton-Tate where it was sold as dBase II. I don't have the software. Happy to donate it to the Museum if there is interest. Jack

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] SOT: Any dBase fans here?
by Michael Thompson 08 Sep '20

08 Sep '20

> > > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] SOT: Any dBase fans here? > > Neat! I did a lot with Clipper too, at one of my first industry jobs > many years ago, in Lawrenceville NJ. We were a small (<5 people) > company writing custom software that joined databases with desktop > publishing, for the creation of large directories, like phone books. > The software was all written in Clipper, and output to files ingested by > Ventura, and produced camera-ready output usually on a Varityper VT-600. > Those were great times, and I learned a LOT. > > Clipper is a great compiler! > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > New Kensington, PA > I maintained a Used Car Dealership management package that was written in dBase. I converted it to Clipper, dramatically enhanced the financial management capability, and made it multi-user through a network. The performance and capability that you could get from PC-XT and PC-AT systems was really impressive. -- Michael Thompson

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