January 2017 - vcf-midatlantic

going paperless
by Jeffrey Jonas 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

Mike Loewen: > A lot of us old-school C programmers prefer the command line. 99.9% of my work is command line. That way a shell script can automate it. I can recall a command and "do it again". > My personal preference (on *nix) is: > 1. Terminal window open for editing with 'vim'. > 2. Another terminal window for running 'make'. > 3. A third terminal for reading 'man' pages. :-) I'm still floundering with going totally paperless for manuals and documentation. It's nice downloading multi-hundred page PDF files and not needing to clear shelf space for each databook. But books can be read without electricity and allow for customization such as bookmarks, column-notes and post-its. For schematics, I still prefer ledger or size B or C to minimize off-page connectors. How I hate ALD (automated logic diagrams) :-( Standard US Architectural Drawing Sizes Size (mm, inches) ARCH A 228.6 x 304.8 9 x 12 ARCH B 304.8 x 457.2 12 x 18 ARCH C 457.2 x 609.6 18 x 24 ARCH D 609.6 x 914.4 24 x 36 ARCH E 914.4 x 1219.2 36 x 48

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C or Pascal?
by Jeffrey Jonas 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

Evan: > If I try learning C, > then I could go directly to K&R or even pick up a modern Dummies book, > but for period's sake it would be the former. But remember the intended audience back then. K&R was BY computer folks FOR computer folks. It's "concise", thus all the followup annotated versions by others. Computer centers had a social element: the local guru instead of Google and wikis. AT&T, colleges all had formal & informal heirarchies of staff & helpers to help newcomers. You cannot assume such an environment anymore, an issue Kernighan and I discussed at VCF. Referring to Grace Hopper's interview on David Letterman: there were no manuals for the ENIAC. It was all learn by the seat of your pants. Writing manuals was quite the cottage industry, thus all the "learn along with us" newsletters, user groups and magazines. The Beagle Brothers were legendary for their fun Apple tips & tricks. O'Reilly Nutshell books set the standard for how to learn new things QUICK.

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why FORTH, not FOURTH?
by Jeffrey Jonas 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

McGuire: > Yeah, that's one part of history that I do NOT miss. > I do a good bit of assembler these days > and just wouldn't be able to stay sane > with five-character identifier names. Ach, you kids have it so easy with your long filenames, subdirectories and long identifiers! Working with limitations is part of computer HISTORY (and being re-discovered by embedded programmers) - 5 character filenames & labels on the 1130 - 8.3 filenames on CP/M and DOS - 14 character filenames on early Unix file systems (16 byte directory entry: 2 byte inode #, 14 byte name). Other machines and operating systems had their own restrictions, such as radix-50 for six characters into one 36-bit word https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Radix-50 Neil Cherry: > and I think Python is used for that now > (good language though the indentation > brings me back to my Assembly Language days, > yes with 4 char labels). Indentation? 4 character labels? WHAT A LUXURY! I started with EDU-25 BASIC: ONE character names and line NUMBERS! FORTRAN was a step-up with longer variable names and line numbers only where needed! Bob Flanders: > And don't use no big words I can't understand. That's why old systems were better! No long names or words allowed! I never liked William F. Buckley because I needed a dictionary to look up everything he said :-/ Roganti: > I read that some acronyms we were so accustomed to were actually backronyms Some were intentional, such as XINU (Xinu Is Not Unix), others were to cover up an "in joke" when something was named, particularly when using naughty words (SNAFU, FUBAR).

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by Brian L. Stuart 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

On Fri, 1/20/17, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > Welcome to the early 1970s. :-) Write your FORTRAN program down on > coding forms: > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/FortranCodingForm.png > > Then head to the keypunch room and punch your deck. Take it to the > dispatch area and submit your job to the dispatcher. Come back in minutes Or, as happened for one of my final exams in college, the professor takes the coding forms, photocopies them, and gives you back the originals. Then you have to go make the program work. You lose 1/4 point per character you have to change up to a maximum of 2 points per line up to a maximum of 50 points for the whole program. An interesting experience... BLS

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by Mike Loewen 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

On Fri, 20 Jan 2017, Alexander Pierson via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > At the same time I was wrestling with that, I did a historical paper on > Pascal. In the process of researching it, I think that was the first > time I was exposed to the concept of writing out a program by hand with > pencil and paper before entering it onto a computer. That blew my mind, > seeing as never thought of a time before text editors and glass > terminals. I'm so used to instant gratification of finding syntactical > errors and compiling at the drop of a hat. Then again, that dates me as > an individual... > I should really give the alternative a try some time for the sake of > perspective. Welcome to the early 1970s. :-) Write your FORTRAN program down on coding forms: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/FortranCodingForm.png Then head to the keypunch room and punch your deck. Take it to the dispatch area and submit your job to the dispatcher. Come back in minutes or hours, depending on the load, and retrieve your deck and printout. Review the output for syntax errors, keypunch errors and logic errors. Return to the keypunch room and punch new cards to fix the errors. Lather, rinse and repeat. While punched cards and keypunches trigger my nostalgia, I also prefer the "instant gratification" of frequent compilation. Mike Loewen mloewen(a)cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

william degnan via vcf-midatlantic writes: >On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Brian Schenkenberger via vcf-midatlantic < >vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > >> william degnan via vcf-midatlantic writes: >> >> > BASIC is the universal language for >> >demos in a museum setting when you're just showing something that you >> >can execute in real time. >> >> ROTFLMAO! >> >> >Brian, >Might you be a tad biased? What language other than BASIC is most present >on the machines in the museum? I should have said the universal language >for demos in our museum setting. Sometimes you have to be practical rather >than theoretical. Pascal? C? Assembly? For museum demos? This thread >is full of "what I would do's" rather than what is reasonable, efficient >and practical specifically for Evan to use and self-support. >Bill Sorry, Real time and BASIC is what was funny.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by Brian L. Stuart 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

On Thu, 1/19/17, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > Forth is a really mind-bending language, but man, it sure is > powerful. I love it. Indeed. Forth and LISP both bend your mind, and in different directions. Taken together they stretch your mind more than hallucinogens. Now you know why I'm the way I am :) BLS

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Washington, D.C.
by J. Alexander Jacocks 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

So, did we come to a conclusion? Are we going to meet this evening, or tomorrow evening? Everyone should be aware that the inauguration is tomorrow, and that could make a mess of traffic, in NoVA. - Alex On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alexander via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Alexander <ajpierson1(a)yahoo.com> > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> > Cc: > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:59:59 -0500 > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Washington, D.C. > Depending on the time, I will probably be free on one of those days for > something. I'm near Tyson's more or less. > > -Alexander 'Z' Pierson > > Sent from my pocket telephone. > > "J. Alexander Jacocks via vcf-midatlantic" <vcf-midatlantic@lists. > vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > >I'm also in the DC area, and will be in Tyson's Corner, tomorrow, and > could > >probably meet. > > > >- Alex > > > >On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Ethan via vcf-midatlantic < > >vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > >> If anyone is going to be around the D.C. area over the next couple of > days > >>> for whatever reason and would like to meet over coffee, feel free to > >>> e-mail > >>> me at dcayea(a)lyonmountain.com > >>> > >> > >> I'm in Northern VA. I know there is a few others on here (though haven't > >> met them face to face.) Are you in the city or suburbs? Any NoVA people > >> want to meet up in the evening Thur/Fri ? > >> > >> - Ethan O > >> > >> > >> > >

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Amazon Smile
by Evan Koblentz 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

As others noted: we registered for Amazon Smile, which is their non-profit fundraising program. That means you can shop at https://smile.amazon.com/ch/47-4133714, get all the same things at all the same prices, and a tiny portion of it gets donated to Vintage Computer Federation. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)3 educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation

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Assembler, continued
by Evan Koblentz 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

Dan's suggestion worked: typing an exclamation inside the monitor brought me into the mini-assembler. I need a book * specifically * for the enhanced/Platinum model. Otherwise I won't know which mistakes are mine vs which are differences in the computer. Some of you will advise me to just get an older Apple II instead :) but I don't have space for another system. Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation A 501(c)3 educational non-profit http://www.vcfed.org

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