November 2020 - vcf-midatlantic

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Ken Thompson video - a new dawn
by Dean Notarnicola 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

You’re welcome here anytime. There’s always work to do, thanks! On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 2:43 PM laurakid via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > I would definitely like to help where I can. Just let me know. Always > been here. I live 15 min from Camp Evans. I do have more going on than I > did in 2018, but I have a very flexible schedule. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Wednesday, November 11, 2020, 12:11 PM, Andrew Diller via > vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > I am going to weigh in with my thoughts, addressing some of the issues and > conjecture presented the past day and ignoring others. > > > tldr; VCF Mid-Atlantic today is still awesome, you should show up and you > will have fun. > > > First, I am a current member of the VCF MidAtlantic Steering Committee. My > seat is not up for re-election this year. I was invited to join the SteerCo > as it's final, and tie-breaker member. I was excited and honored to accept > and never looked back! > > I'm glad we had this airing of grievances before Festivus, fwiw. > > My history in VCF is short, but exciting. I was a lurker on the VCF forums > for years, and one day in the waning of 2018 I decided to get involved. > Wall NJ isn't that far from Philly, where I live. I joined the mailing list > and found out about the upcoming Festivus. > > I enjoyed a wonderful year of Festivus 2018, VCF East 2019, the monthly > repair workshops and Festivus 2019. I tried to attend every workshop, and I > managed to almost do that. I often used them as a venue to git rid of a lot > of my excess vintage gear, to talk and socialize, learn about VCF @ Info > age oh and sometimes work on something I had. Camp Evans itself is a > fascinating piece of history full of interesting groups, people and > artifacts. All willing to share and talk if you take the time. > > > > Since being part of the SteerCo I have seen transformational changes in > VCF-MA (i.e. the parts in Camp Evans (aka InfoAge). Those changes have > happened for a simple reason- there were now a core group of _seven_ > (steerCo + Corey and Jeff) people who were dedicating ridiculous amounts of > their time (and even funds) to assess, prioritize, and execute on projects > that needed doing. Not just one person, but seven. > > > And we are setting up a transparent and accountable process to let > everyone know what and how the steerco is going to do things and also to > ensure outreach and ensure that any interested member can contribute. Even > seven people isn't enough to make VCF a better place as fast as we wanted. > > > I truly feel that anyone can contribute just as much or more than any > steerCo member by doing a simple thing- showing up! > > > Not only will you be able to meet and make some good friends you will be > able to help in the myriad of jobs/tasks that we still need to get done to > make VCF Museum an even more inviting place and a richer nexus for visitors > and members alike. > > > VCF-MA is more than ever involved in cooperation with other local orgs > with similar mandates. > > > Those are my thoughts and I'm sticking to them, > -andy > > > > > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward
by Dave McGuire 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

On 11/11/20 8:59 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > What I see is a bunch of my so-called "friends" jumping on a vigilante > bandwagon, as if the group was going nowhere or must "recover" because > my leadership held it back. Pretty much, yes. You didn't lead, you dictated. That dictatorship had some very good results, don't get me wrong, but let's call it what it is. > Fifteen years spent building the collection, the museum, East, pushing > forward the return of West, building amazing relationships with ACM, > Bell Labs, Babbage Institute, CHM, IEEE, and all of the other > collector/hobbyist groups, winning awards at NYC Maker Faire, growing > the budget from zero to $50,000/year ... how easily we forget. Nobody has forgotten the huge amount of very successful work you put into starting the organization. But YOU'VE clearly forgotten who started this thread, and what that initial message was all about. What people ARE complaining about is what you did after you quit. > Corey said it best when I resigned back in December: the group, the > museum, and VCF East all likely would not exist if not for me. I'd say that's very likely. But that's no longer relevant, because you quit and turned yourself into an enemy. And for reasons that I just don't get, you're still allowed on this list, when you all you do is stir up trouble like this. This sort of trouble destroys communities. Is this a typical "if I can't have it nobody else will" type of situation? > Yet hear you all are trampling on my grave and threatening to kick > me out. Hear vs. here. I guess you rely on software assistance with stuff like that when you're being the end-all, be-all of journalism. But that aside, there is no grave, because you never left. You remained subscribed to this list, just so you could stir up crap like this. > Apple without Steve Jobs is nothing special. Are you seriously comparing yourself to Steve Jobs? Evan, you need to spend less time in front of a keyboard and more time in front of a therapist. I've asked you personally to drop this several times. I'm asking you once more. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward
by laurakid 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

Ps. Now I understand all the brackets or tics or tacs.... I did say outsider. Or better, call me a student Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, November 11, 2020, 3:24 PM, laurakid via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: .... All infighting aside, This discussion has helped me to understand more about VCF and has me excited that maybe I can help out now. I was very active helping before VCF East 2018 and a little here and there up until my friend had surgery and needed my help in April 2019. I hated having to miss VCF East 2019 but my friend’s surgery and recovery took awhile. C’est les vis. I am particularly excited to hear about warehouse improvements! The dust and dirt and crazy climate fluctuations always concerned me. I hope I can help out there. As those who have worked with me know, I am willing and able to do the oddest of odd jobs and also am capable of some heavy lifting (Roller Derby). Speaking of Roller Derby, these sorts of arguments go on in that world too. It is also a group of dedicated, unpaid volunteers running a non-profit labor of love. But some of that fighting is likely quelled because we actually can hit each other (or could, before covid). I sincerely hope I can become more present in the group as I was in 2018. I was just getting to know VCF and many of you. I am an outsider in that I am not a hobbyist and have limited knowledge of the actual history and technology VCF is about, but that is precisely what made me want to volunteer in the first place. My mom did her dissertation on a Commodore 64. I brought a “luggable” computer to my first year of college in 1994. I am truly fascinated and would love to learn more. (Before the Neptune Radio Shack closed down I would spend time browsing different parts and soldering kits, wishing I knew what they were for and how to work with them). I apologize for the rambling. I am just excited. I sorta thought volunteer opportunities were a thing of the past. Warehouse is where I shine. Let me at it 😉 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, November 11, 2020, 3:00 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On 11/11/20 8:59 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > What I see is a bunch of my so-called "friends" jumping on a vigilante > bandwagon, as if the group was going nowhere or must "recover" because > my leadership held it back. Pretty much, yes. You didn't lead, you dictated. That dictatorship had some very good results, don't get me wrong, but let's call it what it is. > Fifteen years spent building the collection, the museum, East, pushing > forward the return of West, building amazing relationships with ACM, > Bell Labs, Babbage Institute, CHM, IEEE, and all of the other > collector/hobbyist groups, winning awards at NYC Maker Faire, growing > the budget from zero to $50,000/year ... how easily we forget. Nobody has forgotten the huge amount of very successful work you put into starting the organization. But YOU'VE clearly forgotten who started this thread, and what that initial message was all about. What people ARE complaining about is what you did after you quit. > Corey said it best when I resigned back in December: the group, the > museum, and VCF East all likely would not exist if not for me. I'd say that's very likely. But that's no longer relevant, because you quit and turned yourself into an enemy. And for reasons that I just don't get, you're still allowed on this list, when you all you do is stir up trouble like this. This sort of trouble destroys communities. Is this a typical "if I can't have it nobody else will" type of situation? > Yet hear you all are trampling on my grave and threatening to kick > me out. Hear vs. here. I guess you rely on software assistance with stuff like that when you're being the end-all, be-all of journalism. But that aside, there is no grave, because you never left. You remained subscribed to this list, just so you could stir up crap like this. > Apple without Steve Jobs is nothing special. Are you seriously comparing yourself to Steve Jobs? Evan, you need to spend less time in front of a keyboard and more time in front of a therapist. I've asked you personally to drop this several times. I'm asking you once more. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward
by Jeffrey Brace 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 2:12 PM Peter Fletcher via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > These sorts of discussions are why many of us aren’t more actively > involved. I enjoy showing up at VCF East and having an exhibit, but life is > complicated enough to see this sort of infighting every few months. > > Evan did great things and the steering committee does great things. I’ll > stick to showing up once a year for VCF East and start muting these threads > for my own sanity. > Hey Pete, Sorry to hear that you are feeling that way. I can totally empathize with your feelings. I would ask you to keep in mind that discussions like these are not representative of everything that happens in our group. I'd like to think of us as a family. Families fight sometimes, have hurt feelings, hold resentments, etc. But families also have a lot of positive things like friendship, camaraderie, similar interests, vintage computer fun! I invite you to not give up on going to other events, especially Festivus which is our "most fun" event. Also come to our repair workshops. From going to these events you can see more of the positive side of our members. In any case, I applaud you telling us your feelings. I would much rather know someone's feelings whatever they are, than to not know and wonder. At least if we know, then we can at least try to address the situation. Jeff > > -Pete > > > > > On Nov 11, 2020, at 8:59 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > > > From: Evan Koblentz <evan(a)snarc.net> > > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward > > Date: November 11, 2020 at 8:59:28 AM EST > > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > > > > > What I see is a bunch of my so-called "friends" jumping on a vigilante > bandwagon, as if the group was going nowhere or must "recover" because my > leadership held it back. > > > > Fifteen years spent building the collection, the museum, East, pushing > forward the return of West, building amazing relationships with ACM, Bell > Labs, Babbage Institute, CHM, IEEE, and all of the other collector/hobbyist > groups, winning awards at NYC Maker Faire, growing the budget from zero to > $50,000/year ... how easily we forget. > > > > Corey said it best when I resigned back in December: the group, the > museum, and VCF East all likely would not exist if not for me. > > > > Yet hear you all are trampling on my grave and threatening to kick me > out. > > > > Apple without Steve Jobs is nothing special. > > > > > > > > -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org cell: 732-759-1783

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward
by Peter Fletcher 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

These sorts of discussions are why many of us aren’t more actively involved. I enjoy showing up at VCF East and having an exhibit, but life is complicated enough to see this sort of infighting every few months. Evan did great things and the steering committee does great things. I’ll stick to showing up once a year for VCF East and start muting these threads for my own sanity. -Pete > On Nov 11, 2020, at 8:59 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > From: Evan Koblentz <evan(a)snarc.net> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward > Date: November 11, 2020 at 8:59:28 AM EST > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > > What I see is a bunch of my so-called "friends" jumping on a vigilante bandwagon, as if the group was going nowhere or must "recover" because my leadership held it back. > > Fifteen years spent building the collection, the museum, East, pushing forward the return of West, building amazing relationships with ACM, Bell Labs, Babbage Institute, CHM, IEEE, and all of the other collector/hobbyist groups, winning awards at NYC Maker Faire, growing the budget from zero to $50,000/year ... how easily we forget. > > Corey said it best when I resigned back in December: the group, the museum, and VCF East all likely would not exist if not for me. > > Yet hear you all are trampling on my grave and threatening to kick me out. > > Apple without Steve Jobs is nothing special. > > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward
by Dean Notarnicola 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

Pete, I'm sorry for that. This discussion has become counter-productive and in the interest of everyone's sensibilities, we should mute this discussion. Everything that needs to be said has been said. I thank everyone for their opinions and their patience. As everyone knows, this is not the norm here. Time to move on. Regards, Dean On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 2:12 PM Peter Fletcher via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > These sorts of discussions are why many of us aren’t more actively > involved. I enjoy showing up at VCF East and having an exhibit, but life is > complicated enough to see this sort of infighting every few months. > > Evan did great things and the steering committee does great things. I’ll > stick to showing up once a year for VCF East and start muting these threads > for my own sanity. > > -Pete > > > > > On Nov 11, 2020, at 8:59 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > > > From: Evan Koblentz <evan(a)snarc.net> > > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward > > Date: November 11, 2020 at 8:59:28 AM EST > > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > > > > > What I see is a bunch of my so-called "friends" jumping on a vigilante > bandwagon, as if the group was going nowhere or must "recover" because my > leadership held it back. > > > > Fifteen years spent building the collection, the museum, East, pushing > forward the return of West, building amazing relationships with ACM, Bell > Labs, Babbage Institute, CHM, IEEE, and all of the other collector/hobbyist > groups, winning awards at NYC Maker Faire, growing the budget from zero to > $50,000/year ... how easily we forget. > > > > Corey said it best when I resigned back in December: the group, the > museum, and VCF East all likely would not exist if not for me. > > > > Yet hear you all are trampling on my grave and threatening to kick me > out. > > > > Apple without Steve Jobs is nothing special. > > > > > > > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward
by Ethan O'Toole 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

> Apple without Steve Jobs is nothing special. But... teddy bear Woz!!! - Ethan > [NON-Text Body part not included]

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward
by Andrew Diller 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

Woz just said "hold my beer..." > > Apple without Steve Jobs is nothing special. >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Ken Thompson video
by Michael Brutman 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

Wow Bill, that was amazing. Let's correct a few things. There are plenty of user groups and clubs both in the Pacific Northwest (where I live) and in Silicon Valley (where Erik lives). For you to ask people to think about "why is there no club out west or north west?" is absurd. (For the record I was active at the local Seattle Retrocomputing Society.) Nobody tricked Evan into giving up his board position. He wanted a paid position in line with what an executive director does - day-to-day operations of the museum in NJ. While an important position, it is not a board level position. So nobody should be surprised if they give up a board position and then don't have a say on board level decisions. I wasn't on the board at the time but this is pretty obvious. What is this business of which you speak? The one where the most of us pay our own travel expenses and volunteer dozens to hundreds of hours a year? The one that we also actively hustle to get donations for? That doesn't sound like a business to me; it sounds like a labor of love. We formed the steering committee to give local people who volunteered a museum more autonomy and oversight over the things they were directly working on. Other people wanted a voice and a say in what happened there. It couldn't be bottlenecked or controlled by one person anymore. This is how you grow and scale an organization. The idea that this was some nefarious plot to have somebody else get rid of Evan is insane, and it fits with the rest of this bullshit conspiracy theory crap you are spinning. We don't control all of vintage computing, nor do we want to. I'm not sure if you've been paying attention or you just like to act like you know what is going on, but we've been freely advertising the other VCF events both in the US and Europe - go look at the website. That was actually a big change after Evan left the board - Evan was a lot more likely to demand that people shouldn't be using the VCF name, which was not a valid demand to make. We don't own the IP. The current national board has been a big believer in a rising tide lifts all boats; we actively cross promote the other groups. "The new VCF West and northwest shows were formed after Brutman and Erik Klein joined the board and they pretty much own them through the board." Fact: the VCF West event was resurrected before I joined the board. VCF PNW came after I joined in 2018. I don't own PNW in any form, through the board or otherwise. I'm just the slob volunteer who launched it and did the majority of the organization for two years. Do you really think I benefited financially or I own anything as a result of having run VCF PNW in 2018 or 2019? What exactly did I get from it? What is this ownership that you refer to? "I suppose no one cares about the breakdown of east vs west revenue, but suffice it to say it ain't even" I don't even know what to say about that, other than it demonstrates such a lack of critical thinking that it is mind boggling. Yep, East has more revenue. No question. But let's look at where the revenue goes. VCF PNW ran in 2018 and 2019 and was two weeks away from running in 2020 before COVID-19 killed it. VCF PNW made a modest amount of money both years, and *all* of the money went back to the org. So sure, East has more revenue than PNW. But not a single dime of any money has stayed in the Seattle area. It all went back to VCF to support the museum, the web hosting, the workshops, etc. It certainly isn't even .. it all goes back to the VCFed, the nexus of which is the museum in NJ. Erik's story with West is going to be similar. Heck, even in 2020 after all of the expenses for VCF PNW were mostly sunk and the event was cancelled *I still managed to hustle* and turn a profit for the org. I had 200 t-shirts made up that I couldn't sell in person. I've logged over 100 hours invoicing and mailing t-shirts, raising money that probably would have been written off because we didn't have in-person events this year. And we still managed to get most exhibitors and volunteers a free t-shirt for their efforts. The t-shirts raised awareness for VCFed and also helped keep the lights on this year when our other sources of revenue dried up. That's not bad when you consider what happened to actual functioning museums with real payrolls that had to close this year. When I launched VCF PNW in 2018 I explicitly did not charge a gate fee, and it was the first event that we ever planned to operate that way. We explicitly wanted the event to be accessible to spread the word and raise awareness. It succeeded and we did it again in 2019. Does this sound like an evil corporation trying to wrest control away from the people who built it? Moving the museum? Another conspiracy theory. The only talk about ever moving the museum happens when we are talking about the leaky warehouse roof or the viability of InfoAge as a site. Nobody has ever even thought about relocating unless we get forced out of InfoAge or have to flee because they can't maintain the site anymore. Bill, your time on the VCFed board was spent criticizing and throwing rocks, but never actually doing anything. Stop grossly mis-representing what happened and what goes on there now. I busted my ass for VCFed. Erik busted his ass for VCFed. Jeff busts his ass for VCFed. Corey busts his ass for VCFed. You didn't do crap. For the record, unrelated to this little side-show, this morning I announced to the other board members that I was going to be winding down my involvement as a board member and opening up a spot for a new person. Over four years we are going to turn two out of five board positions over. I think that is a healthy turnover rate. You are doing your thing with Kennett Classic, which is a business that you own. Don't imply that we're doing anything like that with VCFed ... we're volunteering and making a difference, and we can demonstrate it. You've just found a good way to turn a hobby into a business deduction. There is a big difference between what we do and what you do.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF-MA Steering Committee Election Update
by Dean Notarnicola 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

Technically, a member is someone who simply subscribes to the mailing list. In spirit, a member is someone who becomes further involved in VCF affairs, either by becoming informed by reading the list, attending VCF functions, volunteering, etc. This is how we define membership for the purposes of voting and participating in steering the direction of the organization. Regards, Dean On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 7:53 AM Ben Greenfield via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Hello All, > > Adam, thank you for that update. I admit to only vaguely following the > list these days but had no idea that this is what has been going on. > > My question is regarding membership. How does VCF know who it’s members > are. > > During the formulation period I think it was rolled into VCF exhibit fees. > > I’m happy to be member but not really sure how it works. > > Thanks, > > Ben > > > On Nov 11, 2020, at 7:45 AM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > I am beyond excited by not only the quantity of people but also the > quality > > of people running for the two steering committee positions. > > > > Some background for those interested. At this time last year, the > National > > Board, consisting of three west coast members and two east coast members, > > recognized it was difficult for them to oversee day to day operations > from > > afar and bravo to them for recognizing this. The initial decision was > made > > to have the executive director report to one of the individual board > > members. This was a bad decision and I said so loudly. Many of you work > at > > all levels of both for profit and nonprofits and know this is a recipe > for > > chaos. > > > > The executive director balked at this, rightfully so, and issued an > > ultimatum. As many of you also know, issuing an ultimatum to your > employer > > never ends well, but I want to be clear that the National Board created > an > > untenable situation albeit with the best of intentions to solve a clear > and > > present problem. As such, I made the point that the ultimatum be allowed > to > > be walked back (an extremely rare thing for any organization to allow). > To > > the absolute credit of the National Board, they agreed. > > > > I then proposed the Steering Committee (SC) as a way to oversee east > coast > > operations by people with literal feet on the ground and the National > Board > > agreed. Initially, however, I rejected the notion of being appointed to > it. > > I wanted to be voted to it or not be on it at all. I truly believe and > > still believe that VCF is an organization of its members and each member > > must get a say in how we do business for the organization to grow. > Growing > > up isn't always fun and games, but you either grow or you shrink, you can > > never stay the same. > > > > Better minds convinced me that the SC needed to first formulate an > > environment amenable to an election and I agreed to participate for one > > year with the stipulation that my seat would be the first up for > election. > > If people liked what I did. Great. If not, they have every right to vote > me > > right out. Life (and Covid) intervened and I'm not running again due to a > > relocation to South Carolina. I'm still working as the national social > > media specialist, though (an appointed position, for what I hope are self > > evident reasons). Bottom line, and I'm thrilled to say this, we have an > > election process and each and every one of you has a vote. > > > > This election is a chance for you to suggest the direction you want VCF > to > > go in and then follow up and make it happen with your vote. Respond to > this > > email and tell us all, especially the candidates, things that need to > > improve. Tell us things you like. Tell us what direction *you* want VCF > to > > go in. > > > > And (sorry, I know how tired we are all of hearing this for a different > > election), vote. > > > > -Adam > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 9:13 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < > > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > >> Update! The following is the list of current nominees: > >> > >> Ian Primus - Nominated by Adam Michlin > >> Alex Jacocks - Nominated by Jeff Brace > >> Tony Bogan - Nominated by Dean Notarnicola > >> Dave McGuire - Nominated by Chris Fala > >> Jason Perkins - Nominated by Evan Koblentz > >> > >> Nominees should feel free to make statements in support of themselves, > if > >> desired. > >> > >> Please keep the nominations coming! > >> > >> Regards, > >> Dean > >> > >

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