September 2024 - vcf-midatlantic

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] slightly OT: Collector vs. Hoarder
by Bill Degnan 05 Sep '24

05 Sep '24

I felt bad after I sent my response. I stand by what I said, but what I really meant to say is *you* should be working now to use and preserve vintage tech that means something to you because the only chance it has living past you is how well you take care of it while you're still around. Does that make sense? I work on some vintage computing project every day. Been doing it since the late 80s with IBM XT boards and servicing them when they started to get phased out and replaced by PS/2's. Shortly after got back into Commodore 128's, then I got my first S-100 system (a Cromemco System One) and a few Tandy III's, and... Bill On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 2:31 PM Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > More space junk for us to send up. > > It’s getting a little ridiculous, > as if whoever is on the receiving end is going to know how to use any of > this Tech, > if it all. > > Mike > > Sent from: > My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > > > On Sep 5, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Bart Hirst via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > Haha, yea Bill's comments had me thinking of how to send a time capsule > of > > vintage tech into space. Maybe the space catapult can fling a few Apple > > II's into orbit. Makes me wonder what was in the trunk of Elon's tesla > > before launch, could have hidden a C64, 1541, CRT and maybe a copy of > > karateka. Well the 1541 may be pushing it, unless they threw in a > > fastloader cart. > > > >> On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 11:55 AM David L Kuhn via vcf-midatlantic < > >> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> > >> Way to bring down a party Bill. lol > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On > Behalf > >> Of Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2024 5:01 PM > >> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > >> Cc: Bill Degnan <billdegnan(a)gmail.com> > >> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] slightly OT: Collector vs. Hoarder > >> > >> Hello Bart. > >> I bet even among us tech hobbyists and purveyors of antique computers a > >> low percentage has anything really old beyond their personal interest. > >> Uber old tech collectors are out there, but they're much rarer and may > not > >> have the skills to support their items. They become "art" and thus how > >> they look on a display is more important than anything. > >> > >> It comes down to this, you can pass along stuff but you can't pass along > >> passion. To find one passionate person after another over the > generations > >> to keep an unremarkable Atari going (why?) would be quite unusual. An > >> Apple I stuff like that yes, but there is a short list of items that > will > >> be worth preserving over a longer stretch of time. Very very few > vintage > >> computing items will survive 100 years, and of these, very very few will > >> be complete and restorable, not to mention functional. > >> > >> There are always exceptions, maybe a collection large enough will > attract > >> an audience, or get absorbed into a future museum, but only the best > stuff > >> will survive. And with large collections there has to be an > >> institutional/financial commitment, security, protection against looting > >> when times get tough, etc. Anything that's not truly historic that > >> survives will be the exception not the rule. It'll be random stuff, > >> things that hang on the wall like front panels and interesting software > >> packaging that randomly might find themselves into the right hands 200 > >> years from now. > >> > >> To make it into the future an item will have to be meticulously curated, > >> and the item would have to be valuable enough to be worth the expense of > >> maintaining year after year. > >> > >> 500 years from now you'll still be able to see vintage computers in > >> museums, but only the few that were meticulously preserved, and > extremely > >> lucky. > >> > >> SO - just have fun with what you have. Use it or lose it. > >> > >> b > >> > >> On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 12:21 PM Bart Hirst via vcf-midatlantic < > >> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> > >>> One bad scenario I can think of is an individual who isn't at all > >>> interested in estate planning, and has no close friends or relatives > >>> with knowledge of their collection at hand when they move on, and thus > >>> things could go off the rails when put in the hands of someone who is > >>> not prepared and/or equipped to do anything other than call 1-800-junk. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 12:03 PM Hopkins, Justin via vcf-midatlantic < > >>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >>> > >>>> And I am pretty sure everyone remembers this. > >>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19665632.amp > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> on > >>> behalf > >>>> of Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic > >>>> <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > >>>> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2024 3:40:32 PM > >>>> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > >>>> Cc: Dean Notarnicola <dnotarnicola(a)gmail.com> > >>>> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] slightly OT: Collector vs. Hoarder > >>>> > >>>> This discussion has come up several times in the past year. I'm > >>>> wondering if I should expand/update and repeat my VCF talk from a > >>>> few years ago on the lifecycle of collections; establishing, > >>>> maintaining and final disposition. Thoughts? - Dean > >>>> ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart This Message Is From an External Sender > >>>> This message came from outside your organization. > >>>> > >>>> ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd > >>>> > >>>> This discussion has come up several times in the past year. I'm > >>>> wondering if I should expand/update and repeat my VCF talk from a > >>>> few years ago on the lifecycle of collections; establishing, > >>>> maintaining and final disposition. Thoughts? > >>>> > >>>> - Dean > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 9:29 AM Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < > >>>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Yes, I do know the distinction between you personally and the > >>>> organization. > >>>>> I thought of that as I was typing, but figured it would still get > >>>>> the > >>>> point > >>>>> across. Sorry if my phrasing distorted the situation. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 9:05 AM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < > >>>>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks for the props, but remember that LSSM is not "Dave's > >>> stuff". > >>>>>> I have my own computers at home. Nearly all of my (computer) > >>>>>> stuff > >>>> will > >>>>>> go to LSSM when I kick the bucket. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -Dave > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 8/28/24 08:53, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > >>>>>>> Don't forget about exhibiting/presenting/sharing stuff now so > >>> people > >>>>> can > >>>>>>> enjoy our collections while we are still alive. McGuire is a > >>> perfect > >>>>>>> example of this, and I am not. Someone want to come over and > >>>>>>> help > >>> me > >>>>>>> organize my storage unit(s)? ;-) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 8:48 AM Bob Shuster via > >>>>>>> vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> My bad, Dave! It was Mike Rosen (Sentrytv) responding to your > >>>> message > >>>>>> who > >>>>>>>> pointed this out, and I mixed up who said what! - Bob > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] slightly OT: Collector vs. > >>>>>>>>> Hoarder On 8/27/24 10:32, Bob Shuster via vcf-midatlantic > >> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> This is precisely why I started to sell off my collection, > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>> as > >>>>>>>>>> Dave McGuire pointed out it?s the people who come after > >>>>>>>>>> we?re > >>> gone > >>>>>>>>>> that will have to deal with it! As I stated on the front > >>>>>>>>>> page of > >>>> my > >>>>>>>>>> sales page: "There comes a time when one's collection > >>>>>>>>>> overwhelms > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> ability to store or maintain it ... I imagine the pain of > >>>>>>>>>> my > >>>> family > >>>>>>>>>> in having to do this after I'm gone!" > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I certainly wasn't the one who pointed that out. I was > >>>>>>>>> the > >>> one > >>>>>>>>> advocating for finding a compatible spouse to begin with. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> If fat, funny-looking, high-maintenance "me" can do it, > >>>>>>>>> any > >>> guy > >>>>> can. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -Dave > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > >>>>>> New Kensington, PA > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of > >>>> the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and > >>> confidential. > >>>> If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an > >>> authorized > >>>> representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > >>>> that > >>> any > >>>> dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you > >>>> have received this communication in error, please notify us > >>>> immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from > >> your system. > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Bart Hirst > >>> "This signature will now be eaten up and spit out by Velociraptors." > >>> > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Bart Hirst > > "This signature will now be eaten up and spit out by Velociraptors." > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] slightly OT: Collector vs. Hoarder
by Jeff S 05 Sep '24

05 Sep '24

Wait... did you just describe the Voyager project? 😉 (Hoping to live another 200 years to see "C'DORE 64" return as a sentient, child-like being.) On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 2:31 PM Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > More space junk for us to send up. > > It’s getting a little ridiculous, > as if whoever is on the receiving end is going to know how to use any of > this Tech, > if it all. >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] slightly OT: Collector vs. Hoarder
by Bart Hirst 05 Sep '24

05 Sep '24

One bad scenario I can think of is an individual who isn't at all interested in estate planning, and has no close friends or relatives with knowledge of their collection at hand when they move on, and thus things could go off the rails when put in the hands of someone who is not prepared and/or equipped to do anything other than call 1-800-junk. On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 12:03 PM Hopkins, Justin via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > And I am pretty sure everyone remembers this. > https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19665632.amp > ________________________________ > From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> on behalf > of Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2024 3:40:32 PM > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Cc: Dean Notarnicola <dnotarnicola(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] slightly OT: Collector vs. Hoarder > > This discussion has come up several times in the past year. I'm wondering > if I should expand/update and repeat my VCF talk from a few years ago on > the lifecycle of collections; establishing, maintaining and final > disposition. Thoughts? - Dean > ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart > This Message Is From an External Sender > This message came from outside your organization. > > ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd > > This discussion has come up several times in the past year. I'm wondering > if I should expand/update and repeat my VCF talk from a few years ago on > the lifecycle of collections; establishing, maintaining and > final disposition. Thoughts? > > - Dean > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 9:29 AM Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > Yes, I do know the distinction between you personally and the > organization. > > I thought of that as I was typing, but figured it would still get the > point > > across. Sorry if my phrasing distorted the situation. > > > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 9:05 AM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < > > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks for the props, but remember that LSSM is not "Dave's stuff". > > > I have my own computers at home. Nearly all of my (computer) stuff > will > > > go to LSSM when I kick the bucket. > > > > > > -Dave > > > > > > On 8/28/24 08:53, Chris Fala via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > > > > Don't forget about exhibiting/presenting/sharing stuff now so people > > can > > > > enjoy our collections while we are still alive. McGuire is a perfect > > > > example of this, and I am not. Someone want to come over and help me > > > > organize my storage unit(s)? ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 8:48 AM Bob Shuster via vcf-midatlantic < > > > > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > > > > >> My bad, Dave! It was Mike Rosen (Sentrytv) responding to your > message > > > who > > > >> pointed this out, and I mixed up who said what! - Bob > > > >> > > > >>> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > > > >>> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] slightly OT: Collector vs. Hoarder > > > >>> On 8/27/24 10:32, Bob Shuster via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > > > >>>> This is precisely why I started to sell off my collection, and as > > > >>>> Dave McGuire pointed out it?s the people who come after we?re gone > > > >>>> that will have to deal with it! As I stated on the front page of > my > > > >>>> sales page: "There comes a time when one's collection overwhelms > the > > > >>>> ability to store or maintain it ... I imagine the pain of my > family > > > >>>> in having to do this after I'm gone!" > > > >>> > > > >>> I certainly wasn't the one who pointed that out. I was the one > > > >>> advocating for finding a compatible spouse to begin with. > > > >>> > > > >>> If fat, funny-looking, high-maintenance "me" can do it, any guy > > can. > > > >>> > > > >>> -Dave > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > > > New Kensington, PA > > > > > > > > This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the > addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. > If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized > representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. > -- Bart Hirst "This signature will now be eaten up and spit out by Velociraptors."

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WANTED: Morrow Disk Jockey DMA
by William Sudbrink 05 Sep '24

05 Sep '24

Hi, Subject pretty much says it all. Working or non-working. I _think_ I will be exhibiting at VCF East next year and I have an idea that requires it. Plus, I've played with one in the past and would like to again. Bill S. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

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New acquisition at CDL
by Martin A. Flynn 02 Sep '24

02 Sep '24

New acquisition at CDL! We just picked up a 3 kVA transformer to convert the Camp Evans 120/208 volt three phase service to single phase 120/240 volt. Part number is Square D 3S1F Will be available for workshops, fitting with twist-lock and straight-blade receptacles on the output side. Martin Flynn

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] restoring PDP-8/L
by David Gesswein 02 Sep '24

02 Sep '24

On Mon, Sep 02, 2024 at 01:45:22PM -0400, Mike Rieker via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > > I'm restoring a PDP-8/L. I got it mostly working, had to replace a couple > chips. > Not bad for what people have reported for restoring other 8/L's. > I have checked the supply voltages and there is a timing diagram in the > PDP-8/L maint volume 1 book that seems ok. This one seems a little slow > (like 600nS instead of 500nS), but the stuff seems to be in place, > relative to each other. The manual shows some current waveforms to check > but I don't have a current probe (one is on order). Anyone have > experience getting this stuff to work? > Haven't had much problems with my 8/I or 8/L memory but have spent time with straight 8 memory. For 8/L people have reported bad diodes on the core modules. If bad people normally cut the body out and solder a new one to the leads. I think the diodes can be tested with meter diode check function. On these core modules when they broke a wire making them they would twist the wire together then put some coating over it. Some people have reported those connections going high resistance. If suspect you can check that with ohm meter comparing to other wires. There is a strobe alignment to make sure you are sampling the core in the middle of the pulse and adjustment for memory voltage/current. If you think failures change with temperature check the thermistor. What current probe did you order? I have an old Tektronix one since that was the only reasonable cost option to have the 10 MHz bandwidth needed when I was looking. I was having issues where I would adjust the straight 8 memory to pass diags but would stop working later. With the current probe I could see that the current varied with address. I found bad steering diodes and high resistance backplane contacts. After fixing that the memory has been pretty stable. Would also be good to see what memory locations are good and bad and see if you can find a pattern in address or data bit. That may point to particular areas to check. If you figure out suspect addresses you can try swapping driver cards and see if problem moves.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] restoring PDP-8/L
by Bill Degnan 02 Sep '24

02 Sep '24

If possible, bring to a workshop? BIll On Mon, Sep 2, 2024 at 1:45 PM Mike Rieker via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm restoring a PDP-8/L. I got it mostly working, had to replace a couple > chips. > > Anyway so of course, the memory isn't reliable. I can deposit to some > locations and they read back ok, but other locations do not. And which > locations are good seems change from day to day though I'm not sure about > that yet. > > It is able to run a small loop (IAC / JMP .-1) seemingly for hours on end > after hunting for some good memory locations, so the memory isn't a > complete basket case. After all it is doing read/write cycles just to > fetch instructions. > > I have checked the supply voltages and there is a timing diagram in the > PDP-8/L maint volume 1 book that seems ok. This one seems a little slow > (like 600nS instead of 500nS), but the stuff seems to be in place, > relative to each other. The manual shows some current waveforms to check > but I don't have a current probe (one is on order). Anyone have > experience getting this stuff to work? > > Thanks, > Mike Rieker > > >

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restoring PDP-8/L
by wmrieker＠nii.net 02 Sep '24

02 Sep '24

Hi All, I'm restoring a PDP-8/L. I got it mostly working, had to replace a couple chips. Anyway so of course, the memory isn't reliable. I can deposit to some locations and they read back ok, but other locations do not. And which locations are good seems change from day to day though I'm not sure about that yet. It is able to run a small loop (IAC / JMP .-1) seemingly for hours on end after hunting for some good memory locations, so the memory isn't a complete basket case. After all it is doing read/write cycles just to fetch instructions. I have checked the supply voltages and there is a timing diagram in the PDP-8/L maint volume 1 book that seems ok. This one seems a little slow (like 600nS instead of 500nS), but the stuff seems to be in place, relative to each other. The manual shows some current waveforms to check but I don't have a current probe (one is on order). Anyone have experience getting this stuff to work? Thanks, Mike Rieker

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Receive only Teletype 33 in Marlboro NJ for $75
by Joseph Giliberti 01 Sep '24

01 Sep '24

Not exactly common to see https://www.facebook.com/share/EG9y1gDnxQDQPAKY/?mibextid=kL3p88

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