- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

VCF East -- vendors
by Evan Koblentz 03 Apr '18

03 Apr '18

Everyone, Some of you may remember how last year we jammed in the professional vendors like sardines. Not anymore! For 2018 we arranged the show layout so vendors (and consignors and VCFed itself) will have copious space available. Please forward this message to any businesses you know that might want to be a vendor at the show. Vendor tables are $30 each, vendors can order as many tables as they want, and the deadline is Friday April 20. Two rules: 1. Vendors must be on-topic (vintage computing items, or relevant electronics/supplies). 2. Vendors must be businesses or your primary income: individual sellers use consignment. 3. Vendors must be there Saturday and Sunday. No one-day sellers. Any questions should be directed to me. -Evan

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Computer Church Tour and Vax Workshop April 14th (&15th?)
by Bill Degnan 03 Apr '18

03 Apr '18

An impromptu workshop is formulating at my house for April 14th if anyone is interested. I live in Landenberg, PA contact me privately for directions. Starting in the morning through the day/night. 1. We will be working on VAXen as the theme, 2. We will caravan over to the new Computer Church computer museum (a 501c,etc org) to review the extensive collection and maybe help out there. 3. We will go out to dinner locally. If anyone is interested in what remains of the unclaimed VAXen machines please plan to be there then as they'll likely be gone by the end of the weekend. I want to give everyone a fair chance to finalize who gets what. I have received a lot of inquiries. I will publish a list of what's left after I contact the people who contacted me already about these to claim them, in the order that they inquired. I have tested them to get a feel for their status. This stuff is not free, I need to recoup my expenses. I had not mentioned that I also likely will have pedestal VAXen too, 3800's and 4000's in addition to the workstations. Of course I have tons of other non VAX, DEC and OtherCo around. I will bring some items to VCF East but assuming I am going to exhibit I don't have a lot of space in my small car for deliveries. Landenberg, PA Inquiries: http://www.vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm Bill

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VCF East: Friday tech talks
by Evan Koblentz 02 Apr '18

02 Apr '18

We have eight tech talks so far: http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-east/classes/ but we need 7 more to complete the schedule. Contact me off-list if you'd like to teach a class. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, executive director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Club tables @ VCF East
by Evan Koblentz 02 Apr '18

02 Apr '18

Do you know of, or are you part of, another club/organization that would benefit from having a table at VCF East? Let me know offline. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, executive director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Ahem.... register VCF East exhibits!
by Evan Koblentz 02 Apr '18

02 Apr '18

There are 20 exhibits so far: http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-east/vcf-east-exhib… .... register soon! It'll close around the third week of April. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, executive director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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720K diskette drive
by Mike Loewen 02 Apr '18

02 Apr '18

Does anyone here have a spare 3-1/2" 720K diskette drive, in exchange for pictures of dead presidents? All I have are 1.44MB drives, and I need the older, 720K drive. Please reply privately, thanks! Mike Loewen mloewen(a)cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

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OT: Troubleshooting Port Forwarding with Verizon FIOS Actiontec MI42WR
by Jeffrey Brace 02 Apr '18

02 Apr '18

So Dan Roganti and I were troubleshooting getting a new C64 network game working. It wasn't working so we tried Artillery Duel Network game. It still didn't work. Does anyone have experience with this router and doing port forwarding? Thanks, Jeff

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C64 Multiplayer Internet Dungeon crawler (alpha)
by Jeffrey Brace 02 Apr '18

02 Apr '18

Thought this was cool. A new C64 network game by Leif Bloomquist. It’s an alpha, but so much cool! Anyone want to play together? ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Leif Bloomquist <leif(a)schemafactor.com> Date: Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 6:57 PM Subject: [torontocbm] Multiplayer RogueLike game...now playable! (In browser too!) To: torontocbm(a)freelists.org <torontocbm(a)freelists.org> At World of Commodore 2017 I talked about my latest networked game project, a multiplayer "roguelike" dungeon crawler. I'm pleased to announce that an early alpha version is now playable! It's ready for C64 with RR-Net and (drum roll)...JavaScript! This means that you can play it in any modern web browser, theoretically. To get and set up the C64 version: http://forum.jammingsignal.com/thread/120/connecting-real-c64-rr-net To play it right now in your PC browser: http://rogue.jammingsignal.com/rogue/ I'd like to emphasize that they are connected - you can play head-to-head between multiple PCs and C64s, :-) The game is winnable. How to win? Email me privately the "magic word"... I'm also looking for suggestions for a name for the game!! Enjoy! Feedback and suggestions most welcome. Cheers, -Leif -- Leif Bloomquist | leif(a)schemafactor.com | +1 416-737-2328 | Check out my blog! http://www.jammingsignal.com "Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story." - xkcd -- ======================================================= Jeff Brace =======================================================

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The Next Great Workshop: April 28 & 29!
by Jeffrey Brace 01 Apr '18

01 Apr '18

Signup here: < https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15skPd9SrZ2WsHMoTBTrrvBNwG1nbixVNfey… > We have 8 so far with room for more. We won't have a workshop in May. I will start looking at the dates available for June, July, Aug.

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2nd call for VCF East 13 Saturday Dinner Survey
by Jeffrey Brace 01 Apr '18

01 Apr '18

Here is the survery again: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DV5T7PN I only got 11 responses so far. I was hoping to have more. I will give it another week and then close out the survey. Then the local admin group will decide what to do based on the results. Thanks! Jeff Brace

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UCSD P-System on a hard drive - any pointers?
by Glenn Roberts 01 Apr '18

01 Apr '18

Can't recall if I've asked this here before - looking for anyone with personal experience or connections to enable hosting the UCSD P-System OS on an 8-bit system (Heathkit) with a hard drive. I'm looking for more depth than you can find by just Googling (I'm familiar with most of that content I think). I'm not that interested in the later version by Pecan that was for the IBM PC. If you've no interest then thanks and enjoy your day, otherwise more detail below. tx! * Glenn I have fond memories of using the P system on a Terak 8510a - that was a pretty cool platform (LSI-11 based; wondering - does the museum have one?) P-System was never a big success for multiple reasons, but it has some nice qualities that make it worth preserving, including full screen editing and an IDE-like environment, semi open source (at least the pre-commercial versions done at UCSD) and broad platform support. It was a learning environment that I suspect influenced many who were new to computer science in the late 70's so it deserves a place in the annals of personal computing history. I'm working on a Heathkit platform (H8 or 89). I have the Heath implementations (both rev II and rev IV) but Heath never bothered to support their own hard drive (Z67) - probably because the P-System was rapidly fading around the time that came out. Working with floppy versions is tedious and unreliable - I'd like to host this on my Z67 emulator on the Heathkit. I'm aware that UCSD has released the earlier versions (I.5, II) but the most promising approach (I think) is to use the later "CP/M Adaptable" release. This uses a translator layer to map the P-System BIOS to the CP/M BIOS. We already have CP/M BIOS support for the Z67. The preferable release would seem to be Rev IV from Softech since that supports "Winchester" drives and memory swapping, etc. Again I have a licensed copy of the IV release but it's the Heath tailored one - I'm thinking the CP/M Adaptable one is a better starting point. I've found many of the needed pieces of this in the Maslin archive and in Bitsavers so I've got most (maybe even all) of the pieces of the puzzle but it's a bit tedious to piece together a working system. So if you've got experience (or only interest) in this topic or more importantly know of any substantial work that's been done (or an "expert" - perhaps someone from Softech or the original UCSD team?) I'd be interested in more information. Thanks! - gfr

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Museum Report 2018-03-31 March 31, 2018
by Jeffrey Brace 31 Mar '18

31 Mar '18

I was at the museum today giving tours while Evan and Adam worked in the warehouse and in the museum to rearrange an exhibit and to work on the server etc. for the tablets. He can give you details later on what he and Adam worked on. A steady stream of visitors today. They came in two by two. Lots of highly interested people with lots of questions. A funny story with the first pair, a father and son. They son who was about 16 years old seemed to have some knowledge of vintage computers by reputation, but not personal experience. They needed to rush out and the boy was sad that he didn't have time to try some BASIC programming. I told him that the Commodore 64 was my favorite and that he could always buy one at a reasonable price nowadays. Then Evan and Adam came in the door carrying a C64. I told them of his interest and they gave him the C64. This C64 was found in the Camp Evans Base Of Terror area, so it was exposed to the elements and probably not in working condition, but the kid loved it. We told him that he could come to our workshop and get assistance repairing it. I also told him about our VCF East in May. One guy used to work at Fort Monmouth and Camp Evans and loved our new MOBIDIC display. So lots of fun being docent today with visitors excited and interested. I switched out the Star Gemini-10X printer above the C64 with a Commodore 1526 printer, which was common in that time period and matches the color well. I plan on borrowing the Star Gemini 10X for my exhibit at VCF East with Computer which will use Computer Eyes to capture a still image from a video camera and then print it out on the printer for attendees to take home.

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LOGO Turtles, etc.
by Erik Klein 31 Mar '18

31 Mar '18

Hello, I'm on the hunt for some LOGO turtles for a project at the Computer History Museum. Does anyone have any they're willing to part with or a line on some I could beg or buy? I'd also like LOGO for Apple ][ and Atari if anyone is willing. Thank you, -- ----- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com - My personal collection www.vcfed.org - The Vintage Computer Federation www.vcfed.org/forum <http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum> - The Vintage Computer Forums marketplace.vintage-computer.com - The Vintage Computer and Gaming Marketplace

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OT Warning - Non VCF Project Help
by Martin A Flynn 31 Mar '18

31 Mar '18

OT Warning : The team from the Computer Deconstruction Lab is working on a cost reduction project to assist InfoAge. The project has the potential to save InfoAge more than $1500 a year by consolidating cable modems used for data. Basic project is running aerial fiber optic cable between two areas * Building 9059 (the IXR building) and Building 9010 C/D (the Visitor Center area ) * Building 9059 (the IXR building) and Building 9010 A/B (VCF Museum area ) Where we need help: Before installation, loss testing the donated bulk fiber to be used on the run between Building 9059 (the IXR building) and Building 9010 A/B (VCF Museum) To keep the list clutter down, please reply directly. Martin Flynn

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Interesting article about preserving Apple software (not hardware)
by Herb Johnson 29 Mar '18

29 Mar '18

> "Cracking" software to preserve it is akin to taking a picture of artwork > and letting the original rot away in my opinion. > > Sure, some of the original bit patterns are intact, but it's not close to > an original in any sense of the word. I don't see the need to trash-talk, people who are working hard to recover programs and files from digital media. I"ve worked with a number of people who recover files from diskettes and audio cassettes. I'm doing so today. Some work with the physical media, some work with decoding the "flux changes", some with emulators and some with vintage or modern-replica hardware. Some even resurrect hardware unavailable, or never available. They all, are collectively preserving programs and vintage computers, and making the experience of operating those programs available again. They are getting results. Results matter. I'm in no position to judge the merits of the product and services he's described. He's welcome to be enthusiastic, have particular interests, want to preserve certain things. I just don't care that he calls out other people's good work in the way he has. If we don't defend the good work of others, then maybe they won't work so hard to do more. Or get started at all. There's reasons to keep discussions "of good will". This is a discussion group, not an advertising platform. Perhaps in Mr. Courbis' enthusiasm for a product release, he wasn't clear about that concept. herb johnson retrotechnology.com -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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WANTED: Camcorder operators (and camcorders) for VCF East class recording
by Jeffrey Brace 29 Mar '18

29 Mar '18

Future VCF East attendees: Last year we had a team of 5 people recording all the Friday classes at VCF East. This year three of them are unavailable. I was able to get two new operators, but would like to have two more as backup and to give the other operators a break. We need confidant, committed people to record Friday May 18 classes. Saturday and Sunday keynotes are already covered. This is a serious request, so only serious replies desired. Send me a personal e-mail if you are interested in being an operator. We are also looking to borrow the highest quality camcorders. We have camcorders, but desire the highest quality. If you have one which we can borrow, then send me a private reply. Thanks! Jeff Brace

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OT: Free CD printer available
by Kelly Leavitt 29 Mar '18

29 Mar '18

I have an extra RIMAGE Everest III printer for free if anyone wants it. Goes to the recycler Friday if no one wants it. You can come to Sparta NJ to pick up or I can bring to VCF. I do not have the driver CD, but I do have 5 sets of thermal ribbons for it. Here's what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr7YdWLi0Ds <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr7YdWLi0Ds>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbkSl3YO7pk I just have the printer. The robotics system went up in smoke and has already been recycled. vcfed and Infoage have first dibs.

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Interesting article about preserving Apple software (not hardware)
by Christopher Gioconda 28 Mar '18

28 Mar '18

Admittedly I'm a Commodore guy, but this link about Apple software preservation was shared in a Commodore group on Facebook. It made me think about our recent conservation conversation, and I had a realization it isn't just about hardware. Software mediums, like floppy diskettes and tapes, are falling victim to entropy and require efforts to preserve them in new ways that are more durable and futureproof. Anyway, here is the link: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gv39mx/programmers-are-racing-to… Chris

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Museum report today
by Tony Bogan 28 Mar '18

28 Mar '18

Left work early so I could finally pant that section of wall in the museum white to match the rest of the walls in the museum (where I had removed and closed off the old door last year) Stopped at the front desk and let them know I'd be in the museum for a couple hours before I had to go back to work in case anyone stopped by. Well, ended up not getting any painting done as I had half a dozen visitors come through between 1:30 and 3:30 (the only time I had to paint!) The first visitors were a husband and wife that were very interested. They are both programmers and they started their careers on punch card systems. They took the full tour and asked lots of questions. They were also very interested in VCF East coming up. The next two visitors were individuals that came one after the other spaced about a half hour apart. Both gentlemen asked lots of questions. They were mostly interested in the micros since those were the machines they get up using (one had a trs 80, the other an apple II) The past couple were a mother and teenage son. Their interest level was extremely high, and the mother used to work for xerox from the late 80s through the early 2000s. They stayed long after the tour asking lots of questions. I showed them the videos I have of Bill Dromgoole working in the Univac and then ended up telling them everything bill has taught me about its use and inner workings. They too showed interest in VCF East. So the wall is still the same color as it was before the day started! I was disappointed at first that I could not get the work done (Wednesdays are usually dead) but in the end it was a great day with some of the most engaged people I've had while at the museum. Tony Sent from my iPhone

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OT: 60s/70s/80s Lithography tech
by John Heritage 28 Mar '18

28 Mar '18

Off topic -- Some interesting pictures/info on 1960s-1980s (and before/after) silicon litiography technology : http://www.iwailab.ep.titech.ac.jp/pdf/iwaironbun/2015iitb.pdf A few examples: Pic of a 64kb DRAM wafer from 1979, 1k SRAM 2 inch wafer from 1974 wafer yield chart from 1974-1975 for 1kbit SRAM 1906 Vacuum tube, pic of 1947 Bipolar transistor 1970 Intel 1kbit dRAM, and 4004 CPU die pics

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Preview: museum plans for this weekend
by Evan Koblentz 28 Mar '18

28 Mar '18

Jeff B. is back from hiatus and will be our decent this Saturday. Adam and I will also be there to work on the network and other things. Laura will be there to paint the third UNIVAC pallet. Infoage is closed Sunday due to most of the staff observing Easter.

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More vcfed in Hackaday
by Evan Koblentz 28 Mar '18

28 Mar '18

Found this article from last week. Pleasant surprise! I didn't know Hackaday would be at Trenton. They featured us at the beginning of the article. :) https://hackaday.com/2018/03/23/hackaday-visits-worlds-oldest-computer-fest…

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OT -- URGENT -- Thunderbird help needed
by Evan Koblentz 28 Mar '18

28 Mar '18

I've got a huge problem. I use Thunderbird on my Linux desktop. Made a backup copy of the profile folder before wiping the partition and reinstalling Linux the other day. Imported the backup profile into the new installation. All of the IMAP folders worked fine, but my POP folders are broken. The messages appear to be there in the folders, but they're blank when I open them (except the sent folder: that is missing entirely). This includes my entire inbox of personal email containing thousands of messages, many of which are very important, and some of which are absolutely vital. Tbird has a "repair folder" option but all that did was erase everything include the message list (got it back by reimporting the profile folder again). Here is someone else who had the same problem, but no solution is listed: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1024340 .... can anyone help? (Please don't tell me that I "should" have made another kind of backup, or that I should switch all folders to IMAP going forward, etc. ..... that will NOT help solve the immediate problem and will just make more stressed/angry.) Any tbird whizzes out there who can save all these messages???? This is urgent.

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HealthKit ET-3400?
by Joseph Oprysko 28 Mar '18

28 Mar '18

Does anyone happen to have one of these beasties lying around somewhere? I’m interested in getting one, as I have several Motorola 6800 manuals for op code programming. I’m interested in playing around with it and of course learning/refreshing my knowledge of that CPU. I’m wary of buying off eBay, as many of them will say “As-Is, Powers on, but untested”. So likely they’re being sold by either someone’s child, or a garage/Attic cleanout company. While the ET-3400 is generally what I’m looking for, any microprocessor trainer, similar in functionality would be acceptable. I know I have some manuals in storage I had gotten from the Engineering VP at Fox TV for a different trainer, but when he inquired with the boss “his wife” she apparently had gotten rid of it years ago. That kind of bummed me out. So if you have one that you’ve used/played around with and is no longer near the top of your interests, please let me know off list. Thanks, Joe Oprysko -- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT -- URGENT -- Thunderbird help needed
by Evan Koblentz 27 Mar '18

27 Mar '18

> The MORE command is a Linux shell command to print the raw contents of > a file to the screen I have no clue how I'd use that. (Tried calling you but it said the number I had is not working.)

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Anyone need help with VCF exhibit?
by Joseph Oprysko 27 Mar '18

27 Mar '18

Due to personal issues, I’ll likely not be having my own exhibit at VCF, but if someone in the area is looking for some help with their exhibit, I’m available. If you’re interested, feel free to contact me off list and we can discuss the details. -- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VAX 101 class - need a VAX does VMS even matter anymore?
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 27 Mar '18

27 Mar '18

Joseph Oprysko via vcf-midatlantic writes: >Brian, > >I tried to email you off list, but I got a bounce from your domain. My .org domain? There are no filters there save for RBL lookups. Your domain might be listed on one or more.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VAX 101 class - need a VAX does VMS even matter anymore?
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 27 Mar '18

27 Mar '18

Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic writes: >stand by everyone, I have the list of persons who inquired, in order and >a picture set of the vax/alphas waiting for a home. b FWIW, I have numerous Alpha servers if anybody is interested. I can put new versions of VMS on them if anybody would want one. I'll have to in- ventory what I've got and let you all know. The three ES45s will not be going. ;) Free for all of them as it's high time I prune the herd down.

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VCF East 13 Dinner Survey
by Jeffrey Brace 26 Mar '18

26 Mar '18

Hello future VCF East attendees: I'm planning the Saturday dinner for VCF East 13, which will be Saturday May 19 at 7pm until 11pm. Please take this survey on the dinner: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DV5T7PN Information about last year's dinner: Cost: $33 Buffet selections: Cold cut platter, house salad, fresh mozzarella with grilled vegetables *Wings, chicken parmesan, beef stroganoff, baked ziti*

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VAX 101 class - need a VAX does VMS even matter anymore?
by Bill Degnan 26 Mar '18

26 Mar '18

I will be teaching a VMS 101 class - the basics for those who want to *get started with* VMS (using a VAX, Alpha, or even simH). If you are a VMS ringer you might be bored but you're invited too. Why VMS? perhaps you want to learn about the dawn of the WWW era Internet or you like to program in C but find ancient UNIX under-developed. Maybe you simply have a burning desire to expand your horizons beyond what one can do from the BASIC prompt of an Atari 800. I will put VMS in historic perspective. I will talk about the rise and fall of VMS. - Yes it's still used today but there was a time when VMS was as equally prevalent as UNIX for workstations and mini computing file servers. I remember thinking in the early 90's that UNIX is falling out of favor and that VMS would win out, but I was wrong. What happened? Find out in my class. I will teach how to gain root access to an unknown VAX/Alpha and inventory and configure the hardware. I will teach about how to get around the file system, set up users, and for those who know UNIX touch upon the parallel UNIX equivalents of things. If you need a VAX/Alpha contact me via http://www.vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm prior to the event (now). I have at least 10 that have to go in the landing of my family room, I picked up from a donation with the proviso that they be given to hobbyists and not trashed. I plan to hold a separate VMS workshop near my home some time soon, if there is enough demand for it. If you can't make the 101 class or you're an advanced user and want to participate in a workshop let me know asap. The workshop will be near my Landenberg, PA home. Bill

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VAX 101 class - need a VAX does VMS even matter anymore?
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 26 Mar '18

26 Mar '18

Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic writes: > >> Hey I wasn=E2=80=99t sure of the date of this but it sounds >interesting= . 3 hour drive for me so I was wondering...Any chance you >might consider = broadcasting it using one of the many video >conferencing tools like zoom = or hangouts or skype or, etc? Can I audit the class to insure its accuracy?

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Artifact handling and becoming better caretakers
by corey cohen 26 Mar '18

26 Mar '18

Everyone, Ok, I’m back from my trip to India so could delve more into this issue and would like to clarify a few things since we are all friends here and sometime emails or electronic postings can be misinterpreted in tone. As many of you know VCFed was created as an outgrowth of the old MARCH group which was a group of motley vintage computer collectors. We created VCFed as a federal educational charity with the goal of becoming more professional so that we could expand the hobby and provide a safe place for people to donate vintage computing artifacts so they can be shared with the public, many of these artifacts have personal history to the donor. When I say safe place, there is an assumption of care that is implied when someone donated an item or artifact to us for caretaking. To be clear, VCFed and its members ARE the experts in many of the fields and disciplines in vintage computing, so much so that traditional museums contact us for information. For example, no one could be trusted more than Bill Dromgoole with repairing and curating a Univac or Dave Gesswein with a PDP-8. I would trust no one more than Ian Primus repairing a CRT on something like a PDP-1, if we hypothetically owned one. Common machines like the Commodore 64 or compact Mac have similar experts in VCFed with specialized knowledge of how to repair and restore them. As many of you are aware, our members get asked by collectors and museums all the time on how to handle them. We all are the experts here. So, as they say, let’s cut to the chase… How did much of this knowledge come about? Experimentation which allowed us to learn what we should do or should not do. This knowledge is one of the things our group is great at collecting and sharing. Experimenting on a scrap C64 case with peroxide or some sort of thickened oxidizing solution like RetroBrite is something our members have done and posted the results. In the process, vintage items have been destroyed and when successful items have been restored. A C64 is a common enough artifact where millions were produced and tens of thousands may still survive so when mistakes happen the impact to history or our nerves may not be significant. Heck I even removed the black paint on one of my hand-held football games cleaning it with an alcohol wipe not knowing the paint used ISP as a solvent. They are common enough so I simply masked and repainted it with similar paint. I did learn a lesson on how to clean handheld football games from Mattel. When it comes to rare artifacts, we must take much greater care as there may be no simple fix or way back from a failed experiment or mistake. Artifacts from the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s use paint, materials and manufacturing techniques that are different than those used in the past 30 years and in many cases, are not compatible with cleaning techniques used on consumer items like a C64 or more contemporary ones like my Macbook pro. Some of these challenges have already been faced by our friends at the Computer History Museum, Living Computer Museum and others with artifacts of similar vintage. From their training, they have learned the discipline of both brush and dental pick, patience vs carelessness. They experiment with more common items that are similar construction and age before touching something that cannot be replaced. BTW, this is how I learned some of my Apple-1 and vintage computer restoration knowledge. Does anyone think I tried any of my techniques without testing? It is common knowledge that I will bake some Apple-1 computers in an air oven to reset the ceramic caps so that they are more reliable computers when operating. Sure, there were scientific papers on this relating to military components and resetting ceramic caps, but was I willing to risk something so rare as an Apple-1? No, I tested with similar vintage Atari arcade boards and NTI S100 boards to determine not only temperature and time, but which components need to be removed before doing this. I have shared the details of this knowledge with museums around the world on how to maintain their Apple-1 in operating condition for future generations and so they don’t need to risk an artifact needlessly. So, what does this long-winded message really say… At VCFed, we are trying to up our game so that we can accept and care for rarer artifacts with the same kind of trust people would have donating to a place like the Smithsonian. People need to trust VCFed and we do know the right people to learn from and become fountains of knowledge for others. I think that is what the board was trying to get across with our earlier postings that may have been misunderstood by some. So, to keep your trust and gain more, we don’t want to attempt any invasive cleaning or cosmetic restoration work on rare objects until some guidelines are established. To be honest, this may be the first time someone is attempting to write all this information down in one place for “Vintage Computing” and that is a good thing. As always, your friend, fellow collector and VCFed board member, Corey p.s. I look forward to seeing many of you at the various Vintage Computer Festivals and workshops that we host. On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:25 PM, Drew Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 12:56 PM Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > > > To draw parallels between a quite benign Wang joke and sexual > > harassment/rape takes things a bit far, don't you think? > > > I have to agree here. If you think the joke was inappropriate, fine. But I > don't see how it's "offensive". >

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 26 Mar '18

26 Mar '18

Chris F. and Tony were at the museum for us today. Chris said there were five groups of visitors ranging from seniors to children and from very interested to barely interested. :) That's a normal Sunday: a mixture of all kinds of people. We also received the second half of the Wang system: its ASR-33 and the proprietary electronic control box. (Chris said that it "has several Nixie tubes for a display and about 25 keys. It looks like an oversized calculator with a long serial cable" -- just like this one, but without the demo stand and presumably not in black and white :) -- http://www.thebattles.net/wang4000/img/trantanella4.jpg.) Tony continued his ongoing maintenance goal of fixing all of our many Apple II-series computers and Macs. I made a trip to the nearest Micro Center store and picked up a 4-port KVM for our rack.

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free at workshop: thin 3.5 inch floppy drives
by Jeffrey Jonas 26 Mar '18

26 Mar '18

Free: several thin 3.5" floppy drives from laptops. Ideal for retro projects or compatibility with old media. They should all be +5V only (no 12V). I'll bring them to the workshop, if anyone claims them. -- Jeff Jonas

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Help identifiying a disk.
by Neil Cherry 25 Mar '18

25 Mar '18

Another one of my recent finds is my ATR800 and it's disks and documentation. I didn't know this until after I read the documents but the ATR800 is able to act as a bootable disk drive for the Atari -OR- as a normal CP/M system. I've found a couple of sets of disks for the ATR8000. One 5 1/4" CP/M disk, one 5 1/4" Atari disk (which I think works as the ATR800 Atari boot diks) and a bunch of 5 1/4" disk which I think are Atari disk formats (Atari 810 or 1050 drive compatible, not normal 5 1/4" drive format). What I don't know is what the ATR800 drives used were. What was common with CP/M? Has to be 5 1/4" would a 40 track double sided drive work with a SS disk? I doubt I'm looking at an 80 track drive. Also what does it take to create CP/M boot disks? Technically this is my first CP/M system. Thanks -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Need to change April workshop date
by Evan Koblentz 25 Mar '18

25 Mar '18

>> April 28-29 by a vote of 5-3. >> >> I'll inform the right people at IA... > So is the next workshop date of April 28-29 now set? Just checking so I can make some reservations. I know I was jumping the gun last time I asked. I informed the right person at IA about our change request, haven't heard back, will contact him now.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VAX 101 class - need a VAX does VMS even matter anymore?
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 25 Mar '18

25 Mar '18

Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic writes: >I will be teaching a VMS 101 class - the basics for those who want to >*get started with* VMS (using a VAX, Alpha, or even simH). If you are a >VMS ringer you might be bored but you're invited too. Why VMS? perhaps >you want to learn about the dawn of the WWW era Internet or you like to >program in C but find ancient UNIX under-developed. Maybe you simply >have a burning desire to expand your horizons beyond what one can do >from the BASIC prompt of an Atari 800. > >I will put VMS in historic perspective. I will talk about the rise and >fall of VMS. - Yes it's still used today but there was a time when Fall? Two new VMS sales here in the past month.

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Old linksys router
by Eric Rangell 25 Mar '18

25 Mar '18

Hi all, I’m wondering if that old linksys router can be repurposed as a Linux machine and patched, and if anyone has done cool things with that “Woody" hardware. Eric

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VCF BBS
by Evan Koblentz 25 Mar '18

25 Mar '18

As some of you may remember, last year we bought an inexpensive analog PBX for use with the planned BBS. Martin and I talked. He says it won't work with modems and that we * will * need Asterisk. We'll see. :)

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 24 Mar '18

24 Mar '18

Dean, Drew, and I were at the museum today working on the network upgrade. We'll have to finish it next week (probably Adam and I) due to some glitches experienced today. But we got a bunch of prep work done, we learned some things not to do :) (pro tip: use a real Cisco console cable, not a homemade one), and we have a solid plan for how to proceed based on advice from Chris L. and Martin. We also did some work on the BBS server and a few miscellaneous things.

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test
by Jeffrey Brace 24 Mar '18

24 Mar '18

Just checking to see if I can get e-mail replies from this list.

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Museum report Saturday 3/24
by Tony Bogan 24 Mar '18

24 Mar '18

Headed up to the museum around 11 today to get some work done on the warehouse apple computers and help Bill D #3 with the Univac. (He does the fixin, I do the liftin) Bill made the ride out to be docent today. Ended up being there till just before closing. Bill got the cooling fan that was not working in the CPU replaced and the new one running. He also did some work on the tape punch/reader and teletype. As I've said before, so cool to see this machine coming alive!! Light day for visitors. When not moving the heavy stuff there wasn't much else I could do on the Univac (except watch and learn, which is definitely more enjoyable than lifting stuff!) so I ended up taking the visitors while Bill got work done on the computer. Two families came through. The first was a husband and wife with their young son. We set the son up playing solitaire on the IBM PC while I brought the couple through the museum. Bill had the teletype print the boys name out and gave him the printout. The parents were very interested and asked lots of questions. Fortunately I was able to answer a lot of them! Later in the day a grandmother with her two grandsons came through. The younger boy was more interested in everything but computers, but the older grandson (12 years old) would have made Ian proud!! Not only is he into vintage computers (which currently for him starts with mid to late 90s PCs & Macs so far) but he is an avid collector of CRTs. When he and I got talking about their use for vintage gaming and computers and he told me about when he was degaussing a tv and about the Sony trinitron he picked up for a song and a dance at a thrift shop, I knew I had met Ian's kindred spirit!! He also graciously offered to give us a crt if we ever needed one for the museum as he currently is up to 15 working ones! Only a few but a few quality visitors today. Tony Sent from my iPhone

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Artifact handling and becoming better caretakers
by Erik Klein 23 Mar '18

23 Mar '18

Greetings list members and museum volunteers, The first thing we want to do is say thank you for your enthusiasm and for volunteering. This is an all-volunteer organization and nothing happens without your effort. In keeping with our mission to educate on computer history, the Vintage Computer Federation does outreach, manages a sizable collection and, occasionally, does some preservation work. The museum is fortunate to have had some truly unusual artifacts entrusted to us. We are just temporary caretakers; it is our job to ensure that those artifacts continue on to the next set of caretakers. While we are aware of several possible areas for improvement, it has come to our attention that artifact handling is something that needs our attention now. A quorum of the board of directors spoke the other night and we agreed that, although the museum has done well so far, we could "up our game" and do even better. As a result, we are going to draw up a plan for getting consultation and help from other museums and any other authorities that we can locate. The goal will be additional training for museum volunteers on proper artifact handling and collection management. We have good contacts at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View and Living Computers:Museum+Labs in Seattle, both of which are well known and highly regarded. Acquiring whatever of their expertise we can beg, borrow or steal will benefit us and help us carry out our long term mission. We don't have a timetable for getting this done yet; the idea is a few days old so far. In the interim please be mindful that what has been entrusted to us might be very unusual and unique, and, quite frankly, irreplaceable. Until we get more formal guidelines and training the goal should be to stabilize and preserve artifacts, and not to alter them in any way unless there is an active threat to them. This includes deep cleaning, adhesive removal, major repairs, etc. Let’s acknowledge that we don't know what we don't know, and, until we know better, we should be extremely cautious. Thanks for your consideration and patience. If you have questions or comments please reach out to any member of the board of directors. Regards, Mike, Erik, Jeff, Corey, and Bill -- ----- Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com - My personal collection www.vcfed.org - The Vintage Computer Federation www.vcfed.org/forum <http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum> - The Vintage Computer Forums marketplace.vintage-computer.com - The Vintage Computer and Gaming Marketplace

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OT: OM2 Duplex Fiber Patch Cord SC/LC
by Joseph Oprysko 23 Mar '18

23 Mar '18

Does anyone here have a use for such a cable? I was shipped it from Amazon, when the item ordered was a 3D Printer... Don’t Ask. LOL. The 3rd party vendor refunded me my payment, and said don’t bother shipping it back (likely because it shipped from the UK, the return costs would be prohibitive) So I have this brand new Fiberoptic Patch cable, and have ABSOLUTELY NO USE for. It’s 3 meters (about 10 feet) long. While I actually have a device that would support it (my Cisco Metal 8 port Switch), when used with a fiber transceiver, which I don’t have, as well as no fiber network card for my PC. Joe -- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?

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Another eBay Lisa 1 auction, 50K...
by Evan Koblentz 23 Mar '18

23 Mar '18

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-APPLE-LISA-1-TWIGGY-COMPUTER-COMPLETE-AND-WOR…

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Computer math (was 33! science project)
by Jeffrey Jonas 22 Mar '18

22 Mar '18

Long long ago, I ran Whitesmiths' "C" compiler under CP/M on a Z80 system but forgot what data types were "native". I also have PL/1 for CP/M. While "native" data types are definitely faster (word-sized integers), even the Z80 had math co-processors. Before it was on-die, there was a variety of 8087 math co-processors by Cyrix, AMD as well as Intel. So speed and precision were far from "standardized". -- jeff jonas

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Artifact handling and becoming better caretakers
by Herb Johnson 22 Mar '18

22 Mar '18

> The goal will be additional training for > museum volunteers on proper artifact handling and collection management. > In the interim please be mindful that what has been entrusted > to us might be very unusual and unique, and, quite frankly, irreplaceable. > Until we get more formal guidelines and training the goal should be to > stabilize and preserve artifacts, and not to alter them in any way unless > there is an active threat to them. This includes deep cleaning, adhesive > removal, major repairs, etc. Let’s acknowledge that we don't know what we > don't know, and, until we know better, we should be extremely cautious. Well, I read the statement signed by the Board of Directors of VCF Inc. It's a very careful and cautious statement, about the need to preserve our artifacts intact, and not damage them, and what we don't know about preserving them - and so let's wait for some comprehensive policy from some peer museums "who know what we don't know". My initial reaction was to write another cautious statement, about the need to RESTORE artifacts, the 'present threat' of time that already is damaging them, about the need to recover data. About employing old-persons NOW, who worked on these machines, who won't be around "later". About others, such as private owners, who are restoring and who can use our help as we work on our own artifacts. And so on.... But that's reacting to a reaction, I decided. I respect, that the VCF Inc. Board, has to show due diligence, and take actions in policy. But you know - we all know each other, in vintage computing, many of us do. We know who is working on what, who has what, and where that work is going on. If not, there's the Internet. We all know (most of us) how age is affecting equipment, and ourselves, and those who still are alive who made this stuff. "Decay" is a fact not a what-if. We know who's interested in this stuff, how they get interested, preservation is one interest, restoration another, education another, and so on. "Some of us", includes you Members of the Board; and those reading these words on this list. For the oldest of us (me), time and delay are not our friends. We may each have our points of view - some enjoy repair, some don't. But we collectively know quite a lot, and we have ears and mouths to engage about these matters. So, let's take a deep breath, before we lecture each other like we've never met before, and don't know our ignorance. The initial issue, was about removing paint while removing tape goo. Let's not do that - that's a good idea. Message received I believe. But saying like, "don't touch until we create a corporate policy about preservation among our peer organizations", may make a few people "nervous", may seem a bit "reactive". VCF Incorporated, as I've suggested, *already* has many good people doing many good things about repair and restoration, emulation, or archiving. People like to be appreciated - acknowledged - for work done and contributions made. The due diligence of the Board, may call for caution at times, or some executive decision. But the work of VCF Inc - as your statement notes - is accomplished by people who have demonstrated trust AND expertise; demonstrated by their results. So: Consider the volunteers in hand. Have some trust, that they all won't rub the paint off the console. These are the people who will help you, the Board of Directors, in developing policies - which is what Boards do, among other things. And, they will do the work of preservation, a goal of the Board. They are your first "experts". Others who benefit from their work, can speak up if found and asked. I get many inquiries myself, from *emulators* - those who write and support emulators, do very hard work to resurrect documents and software and hardware, to make their emulations "work". It's not my preference, but, hey ! there's more of them, than more of ME. No three-phase needed, no garage-of-racks, just a PeeCee. Some people start their vintage interest that way. (shrug) It's reasonable to ask other institutions too. You might ask other artifact-based museums - machine tools, steam engines, antique autos. I'm *sure* they have discussions and policies about "fix/don't fix" "touch/don't touch" which would inform your Board. Their interests in legacy are no less than yours, or mine - my modest experiences suggest that to me. And, if the Board want to discuss particular policies in this email list, or elsewhere, that's a reasonable thing. I'm a little startled by this particular context. I hope this is a more useful response, than dueling lectures. We are, mostly, on the same side. Also, note the informed posts about removing tape adhesive. regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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old file formats
by Jeffrey Jonas 22 Mar '18

22 Mar '18

Apropos of data restoration and copying-up old files: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-to-open-old-computer-files The Quest for a Universal Translator for Old, Obsolete Computer Files To preserve bygone software, files, and more, researchers are working to emulate decades-old technology in the cloud. by Jessica Leigh Hester March 08, 2018 Of course, all that can be lost if not openly replicated on other systems.

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Trenton
by Herb Johnson 21 Mar '18

21 Mar '18

Since TCF is walking distance from my home, I was there this year. It was, as Evan says, much like the last few years. There's one or two vendors who bring vintage-computing items, and then several others you see at hamfests with modern computers, and a few parts vendors. It's early in the hamfest season so it's good to see these folks again. I bought some widgets, my friends bought some vintage things, I scarfed up the tossouts at the end. There was a 3D printer dealer there. The talks are of the same sorts as recent, mostly about doing modern computing in various aspects. Since early personal computing included "embedded" issues like networking, operating things, coding - modern computing topics in embedded work are of interest to many of us oldies. THey show off some college-engineering student work, some robotics. Neil Cherry's talk was fine, and I recommend looking at IoT stuff through the eyes of vintage computing "nuts and bolts". Frank O'Brian spoke on the Space Shuttle computer - he's part of Infoage, wrote about the Apollo Guidance Computer. Other talks may be of interest to some who read this. A surprising talk, was by a high-school student, who is making his own semiconductors in his garage. When his talk began with "here's how a semiconductor works...." I was worried. Spoiler: he's using 1990's class small-run semiconductor technology, and a bit of optical hacking, and some common household items. And he's getting it done. Best talk I've heard in years, me being a BSEE from the 1970's, that's what I learned then. Not sure the "gamers" would be interested, but the "makers" among us ought to be. The Sarnoff Collection had a table during the morning, and opened their museum in the afternoon which is a short walk away. Go there sometime, to see the COSMAC computers, some blue LEDs (RCA uncovered the breakthru technology), and radio/TV stuff if that's of interest. I work with them so they get my attention. The 1802 *is* a New Jersey microprocessor. TCF has topics of interest to modern computing technologists, and also a strong amateur radio component. You can get your ham license in a day spent there, like many hamfests offer. It's not the parking lot of old-tech dealers it used to be, but it's not a bad way to spend a day-of-tech. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Infoage closed tomorrow due to snow -- EOM
by Evan Koblentz 20 Mar '18

20 Mar '18

________________________________ Evan Koblentz, executive director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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