- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Need to change April workshop date
by Jeffrey Brace 20 Mar '18

20 Mar '18

And the winner is .......... ? On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Evan Koblentz <evan(a)vcfed.org> > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 14:42:14 -0500 > Subject: Need to change April workshop date > A bunch of Sandy volunteers (yes it's still happening) need to use the > barracks area April 7-8. That bumps us. (Don't worry, it's set in stone for > VCF East weekend.) > > They said we could reschedule to April 21-22 or 28-29. > > Vote here: https://doodle.com/poll/vyyvb324ah8i8bvw ... whichever date > has the most votes by 11:59pm this Thursday wins. > > Votes via reply to this message will not be counted. > >

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Small rescue help needed in Wilmington DE
by Evan Koblentz 20 Mar '18

20 Mar '18

Who's available to pick up some boxes of important magazines/journals in Wilmington, Delaware on April 20? (Already asked Bill Deg.; he's not available that day.) These are for the museum.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum report
by Jeff G 20 Mar '18

20 Mar '18

I use WD40 to remove tape/label adhesive with very good luck, and often no damage to painted surfaces. Once the label is removed I usually use regular isophyrrl alcohol to clean up the WD. You can always test on some hidden spot to make sure its safe too.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] NeXT in the family.
by Lou 19 Mar '18

19 Mar '18

Oh I know all about the community site, I got myself into the forum on Saturday and I am loving what I have read so far. As for the peanuts archive believe it or not I believe its actually installed on my NS! The previous owner was a collector himself and replaced the drive with a Scsi2SD board which works wonderfully well. Sure I don't get the classic sound of the disk spinning up but as long as everything works the way it's supposed to I cannot be picky haha! The other interesting thing about this acquisition was that it came with actual documentation and the official OS Install/Dev tools Disks! The Documentation itself seems to be the original "Getting Started" Booklet that covers both the NeXTstation and the NeXTcube setups and walk through. There is also an official user reference guide, applications guide, release notes, some letters and another book which is a third party publication on how to use the Operating System. The Documentation alone is awesome looking through and I might consider bringing it up the next time I am at the Museum if anyone wants to look through it! Thanks again for the reach out Tony! Lou >Very nice! If you have not already, make sure you check out nextcomputers.org >Especially their file archive (down the bottom of the home page) > >They have ISO images of the peanuts archive CDs along with disk images (cd and floppy) >of many of the utilities, apps, games and operating systems that were available for >the NeXT machines. > >Tony

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 19 Mar '18

19 Mar '18

Good day!!! We got a Wang 4000. This was the first computer model from Wang. Before that they only made calculators. Back story: the computer belonged to a chemical company here in NJ. They bought it around 1967-1968, used it deep into the 1970s, and replaced it with an HP-3000. Frank's father tightly wrapped the 4000 in plastic, put desiccant bags inside, built a wooden crate for it, and put it in some corner of his warehouse. The father died several years ago. His son Frank took over the company and recently decided to sell one of their warehouses. While clearing the warehouse this month, Frank and his colleagues found the crate. Frank remembered that the company had the HP-3000 so he Googled, found an HP mailing list, and posted about its availability. Dave M. and Mike L. read that message, noticed it was here in NJ, knew VCF would love to have an HP-3000, and forwarded it to me. He agreed to donate it to VCF. He didn't want to wait until he got here to see it, so he opened one side of the crate back at his warehouse. It happened to be the front. He saw it was a Wang 4000 and not the HP (he has no idea now what became of the HP!) He re-sealed the crate and brought it to us today -- special thanks to Infoage volunteer Ray B. for operating the forklift. Steve A. led the crate-opening party. We were shocked at the good condition of the computer inside! It looked very clean. Steve and I determined where to put the computer (in place of the Data General Eclipse in the museum) and then we removed the plastic wrap. That left a lot of tape residue; I went out to buy some Goof Off (they didn't have Goo Gone). But then there were about 30 museum visitors today and other tasks to do, so I'll clean the new artifact another day. 4000 picture 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MFIYqIOVHKRH-D87sBpTxxnwA3lPWBJp/view?usp=… 4000 picture 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/199JTwJwFYkaxR_hUfhc2o1OsDZ60zBe-/view?usp=… 4000 memory: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WP1qDzZlwn9DLbpsBc3WaFoaJEdJvQzW/view?usp=… Frank: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G2pd9sbWmzxakkQQSdB1Ak2-lLc1ub2X/view?usp=… Forklift: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C4sQpHQamzexjJKoTbV_7QmiIOnkX3-H/view?usp=… Beside the great visitorship today, I also installed the next rack shelf and put the combo DVD/VCR along with the laserdisc player in there (the LD has a karaoke feature... I can't see us using that!). I couldn't find where in the warehouse I put the stereo receiver, but it was an old crappy one anyhow, so it's no big deal if we need to replace it. Also on the agenda: replace the rack's network wires with black ones in order to continue the "stealth" theme which I like. A/V so far: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EU6TZoSwIW5NVtoXUV2Crr6kzODONQE3/view?usp=… Whole rack so far: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vqdd5YqtoLOW1BhWdCa0xBK6dT7oaTsa/view?usp=… A weird thing about the tablet server: its power button is on the front near the top left side -- exactly where you wrist would hit when using the keyboard that sites on top of it (since we don't have a keyboard tray). But the server happens to have pull hooks on both sides, the hooks happen to have round indentations on their inward-facing sides (facing toward each other, that is), and the height of the indentations happens to line up with the power button about a half-inch in front of it. So I went to Home Depot, bought a metal rod, asked Roddy next door to spray it black, and installed it between the indentations. Got all that? :) (The pictures below will show you.) Now the rod serves double-duty as a wrist-rest and power button guard. It worked very nicely. Front: https://drive.google.com/file/d/100dAtR4HGtHJ-Nhzi8f1fTK1HcheJNjk/view?usp=… Top: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WsF5UYQ4EQBBjlIUFPCpbikcyFO8bWVN/view?usp=… Looking ahead: next weekend (or maybe Friday) is when Dean, Drew, and I will swap from the Pi to the server and the consumer router to the Cisco access point. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, executive director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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NeXT in the family.
by Lou 19 Mar '18

19 Mar '18

Finally a good weekend without snow yesterday I was able to meet up with CommodoreZ of the VCF community over the acquisition of a complete NeXTstation mono setup. For those that did not know a few months back a NeXTstation popped up on craigslist in the DC area. I tried my best to pull resources on my end to get out there but lacking my own personal vehicle few others were not able to assist me with getting out there. Fortunately however CommodoreZ lived not far from there at all and was more than willing to act as a middleman/liaison for me to acquire the NeXTstation. We finally met up yesterday and we chatted up for a few hours, that alone was so much fun I almost forgot what I was actually there for! Transaction done, thanked him up and down for the help and headed back home with a machine I always wanted to get my hands on! Everything runs great after setting up the system. It looks as good as the Museum's NeXTstation! I hope to do some interesting things with it soon enough. Once again I cannot express it enough to give my thanks to Z. Without his help I do not know if I would have gotten this in my hands, but he made it happen.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Fwd: Re: Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 19 Mar '18

19 Mar '18

Thank you Doug/David. I only used a small amount of Goof Off but it didn't work anyhow. Maybe because the instructions say to let it dissolve the residue for a couple of minutes, however, this is a vertical panel so when I put it onto the residue most of it just dripped down. What's a better method, other than removing the panels (not so easy to do; it requires removing whole components not just typical latch-on panels.)

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Trenton Message-ID:
by Jeff G 19 Mar '18

19 Mar '18

Now I wonder if I'm the actual Jeff G, the "other" Jeff G, or perhaps a third Jeff G that wasn't even mentioned, but I won't lose sleep over it since it was really just in passing. ;-) Trying to keep my nephews focus was tough but he seemed to have fun looking around.

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Trenton
by Evan Koblentz 18 Mar '18

18 Mar '18

Another year of the Trenton Computer Festival is in the books. Basically the same as it's been for several years now -- small one-day event, about a dozen of our group members in attendance (hope I don't forget anyone: Herb, Jeff G., other Jeff G., Jeff J., Dean, Drew, Rolf, Mouse, Ian, Don, Frank) ... also lots of people who know us + come to VCF East but aren't active participants. There were some interesting talks, a small tiny vendor area, and post-show dinner with group members. It remains fun and useful for us to have a table there and it's a relatively low-effort endeavor for us. I brought Corey's Mimeo instead of ours because his is installed in a briefcase which makes it easy to move around. So many people thought it was real, and in some cases I let them. :)

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Looking for weight of vintage computers for Science Fair Project
by Connor S 18 Mar '18

18 Mar '18

Thank you to all who have helped with Connor's science fair project comparing 13 micro-computers! We've been learning so much and greatly appreciate the help testing and interpreting data so far. Connor S. has put together some graphs on time to boot, factorial calculations & time to count to 1,000,000. He also made a comparison table based on information we could find on each computer. We've had difficulty locating the weight of some computers on-line. If anyone can help, we are still looking for the approx. weight of the following computers. (Weight should include computer, disk drives & monitor, if possible) - Commodore PET - TRS-80 model 1 - Atari 800 XL - TRS CoCo 3 - Vic-20 -Tandy model 102 Thank you, Jen & Connor S.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum report Saturday
by Evan Koblentz 17 Mar '18

17 Mar '18

Thank you Tony! The tablet network is about to become much more reliable. In the next week or two we're changing over from the Pi and cheap home router to the new server and a Cisco access point. That should dramatically improve the network. I'm excited about it. On Mar 17, 2018 9:04 PM, "Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: Ended up spending most of the day at the museum today. Had a fair amount of visitors. A group of about 12-14 Boy Scouts (8-10 Boy Scouts plus 4 or 5 adults) The group leader mentioned he started in college using a slide rule....when I pulled out the slide rule from the workshop he proceeded to give a demonstration to all of us on its use. Was definitely the highlight of his day and mine!! I had several families come through along with a few other people that were volunteering doing cleanup that took breaks from their work to visit the museums. I got several more apple Computers assessed and tagged for the warehouse. The hallway and museum ceiling hung TVs were not showing their slideshows so I reset them. Bill Inderrieden stopped by and did some work and we coordinated a little more on the April switching of the Univac pallets (new ones that Bill Dromgoole made will replace the older and less attractive ones the computer components are currently sitting on) The wifi network for the tablets went down just as I was closing up around 4:30. I'll stop by in the morning after work to drop machines off at the warehouse and will fix it then. All in all a busy day with some really interested people. Many of which had experience working with various machines in college or at work that we have in the museum (and a slide rule!!) Tony Sent from my iPhone

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Museum report Saturday
by Tony Bogan 17 Mar '18

17 Mar '18

Ended up spending most of the day at the museum today. Had a fair amount of visitors. A group of about 12-14 Boy Scouts (8-10 Boy Scouts plus 4 or 5 adults) The group leader mentioned he started in college using a slide rule....when I pulled out the slide rule from the workshop he proceeded to give a demonstration to all of us on its use. Was definitely the highlight of his day and mine!! I had several families come through along with a few other people that were volunteering doing cleanup that took breaks from their work to visit the museums. I got several more apple Computers assessed and tagged for the warehouse. The hallway and museum ceiling hung TVs were not showing their slideshows so I reset them. Bill Inderrieden stopped by and did some work and we coordinated a little more on the April switching of the Univac pallets (new ones that Bill Dromgoole made will replace the older and less attractive ones the computer components are currently sitting on) The wifi network for the tablets went down just as I was closing up around 4:30. I'll stop by in the morning after work to drop machines off at the warehouse and will fix it then. All in all a busy day with some really interested people. Many of which had experience working with various machines in college or at work that we have in the museum (and a slide rule!!) Tony Sent from my iPhone

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Museum today
by Tony Bogan 17 Mar '18

17 Mar '18

Will be here at the museum until around 3-4pm today. Getting more machines tested and tagged and back to the warehouse. No one available to be docent so going to stay as long as I can. Feel free to stop by! (Gets lonely here sometimes ;-) Tony Sent from my iPhone

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Help Needed for Science Fair with Commodore 64, PET & VIC-20
by C.J. Slade 17 Mar '18

17 Mar '18

Hi VCF, Connor S has come the last 2 workshops at VCF with his Dad and loves working on vintage computers. He has been working on the 5th Grade Science Fair project for the past few months. Connor is comparing vintage to modern computers and has been researching and testing the Altair 8800 (clone), Apple II GS, Macintosh SE, iBook G3, Commodore 128 & Mac Book Air. He would like to add the C-64, PET & VIC-20, but doesn't have access to run tests. Would someone be willing to run the following 3 tests on the *Commodore 64*, *Commodore PET *and *Commodore VIC-20 *this week for Connor to include in his results? 1) Boot Time into OS Time in seconds from turning on the power switch to computer fully loaded in OS 2) Highest factorial calculated (BASIC; Hope I typed his program correctly) Connor's guess it that the PET & VIC-20 will only be able to calculate 33 factorial. 10 INPUT "NUMBER"; A 20 B = A 30 B = B - 1 40 PRINT A "*" B 50 A = A * B 60 PRINT A 70 IF B > 1 GOTO 30 80 END 3) Time (in minutes) to count to 10,000 in BASIC using this program. 10 I = 0 20 PRINT I 30 I = I + 1 40 IF I < 9999 GOTO 20 50 PRINT "DONE" You can e-mail results to Connor S (& me) at *basicprogrammer10(a)gmail.com <basicprogrammer10(a)gmail.com>*. Connor will be happy to acknowledge and thank who ever helps with this additional data on his science fair poster. He would be happy to share final results at an upcoming workshop, if there is interest. Thank you, Jen (Connor S's Mom) :)

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 17 Mar '18

17 Mar '18

Busy time for me -- warehouse today, Trenton tomorrow, museum docenting Sunday. Still new-ish volunteer Laura and I did warehouse work from about 2pm-7pm today. She put a second coat of paint on the new UNIVAC pallets. I consolidated the huge collection of slide rules into fewer boxes. Then we spent an hour or two playing shelving unit Tetris -- moving things around the warehouse for better efficiency. The result is some things are in more logical places now, and other things that were in the unsorted area were moved into the sorted area. So a net positive. We took another hour cleaning the pile of empty boxes. Threw away some boxes of odd sizes or in poor condition, nested others, and neatly re-stacked all the common banker boxes. We also sorted through a few boxes of miscellaneous stuff and generally straightened up some cluttered areas. It's been an impressive improvement in the warehouse this past year. Jeff B. and Adam deserve most of the credit for it. It is a pleasure now to go in there and see wide aisles with a good amount of open space. We'll need that space for the next huge project (probably post-VCF East) which is to sort, organize, and consolidate our vast collection of books, magazines, and manuals. Trenton will be fun tomorrow but what I'm really looking forward to is the historic and rare minicomputer being delivered here Sunday. What kind is it? Don't you all want to know. :) I will announce it and post pictures when it gets here.

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No posts in honor of Pi Day
by Jim Scheef 15 Mar '18

15 Mar '18

Are we not posting today to honor Pi Day? Jim

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Semi-OT: stereo speakers for museum
by Evan Koblentz 13 Mar '18

13 Mar '18

We're going to need four matching stereo speakers (one for each corner of the exhibit room). I plan to wire together the two at each end of our rectangular space so they're all "front" speakers; this won't be a 5.1 system (but I'll probably put a subwoofer someplace discrete, so it maybe "2.1" so to speak..... I wanted to install speakers in the ceiling. IA management said no. Thus we have to go with conventional speakers. I think the usual black speakers will be ugly against our white walls/ceiling. Does anyone know if decent speakers that are affordable and available in lighter colors? Alternately, if black is this only option then how could we camouflage them?

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Kaypro 10 available in Lancaster PA
by Evan Koblentz 13 Mar '18

13 Mar '18

Contact: betsylowrey(a)aol.com ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, executive director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Trenton is this Saturday
by Evan Koblentz 13 Mar '18

13 Mar '18

We'll have our usual table at the 43rd Trenton Computer Fest this Saturday. Haven't decided what I will bring for a demo machine. (They saw my favorite demo, the Lego system, last year.) Perhaps the Mimeo because it's small-ish and I know a lot about it. I'm not giving a talk this year. But I will attend the dinner banquet.

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Remember: sign up for your VCF East exhibits!
by Evan Koblentz 12 Mar '18

12 Mar '18

There are 10 registered exhibits already for VCF East XIII. We can comfortably fit 35-40 depending on the number of multi-table exhibits. As with last year, we may have to say "no" to procrastinators. I have a secret plan :) in case we ever have a demand for 50-ish exhibits. I would love it if that happens! For now, the message is REGISTER SOON: http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-east/vcf-east-exhib… ... you don't have to know all the details at this point, just put in the basics. This is important for our marketing.

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New museum artifact
by Evan Koblentz 12 Mar '18

12 Mar '18

Looks like we're getting a Wang 4000 soon. Exciting! I hope to know more by next weekend.

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GRI 771 Keyboard Info
by systems_glitch 12 Mar '18

12 Mar '18

All, I'm looking for info on a George Risk 771 parallel ASCII keyboard. I've got one but no documentation or existing cabling. I'd like to interface it to my Poly-88. Thanks, Jonathan

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vcf-midatlantic] Mac OS 7.1 Terminal Emulator & BBS software
by Herb Johnson 12 Mar '18

12 Mar '18

> I don’t have any of my old Zip Drives save one internal > one, nor my Jaz Drive. My Zip drives would have been useless > anyway as all the ones I owned were parallel port, not SCSI. I sell SCSI external ZIP 100 drives, and parallel external ones. USB ZIP drives were not uncommon on eBay, I don't have a stock of those. Internal SCSI ZIP drives are a little less common and my stock is limited. I have stacks of IDE/PATA ZIP drives. Also disks. Contact me privately about any of these. I'm replying publicly, because ZIP drive technology is actually a pretty good "vintage" resource. SOme people malign ZIP disks and drives. The facts are, PC's and Windows systems used them for quite a long time, you could buy ZIP disks at the office-supply stores well into the 2000's. I don't know of much removable storage, that spans Macs and PC's, and can be connected to most Macs and most Windows systems, *and* allow files to move between them. There's Mac-format and PC-format ZIP disks, but old Macs can read either and I think Windows can read either (I forget). > Oh, my mistake, [my SE/30 memory is] not 1.5 mb, it’s 8mb. > But my hard drive sounds very > gummy. Where it’ll slow down and stop spinning occasionally. Well, time to replace that drive. While you are in there, get some 4MB or 16MB SIMMS and goose up that SE/30. (you need four SIMMS of a kind.) That's a very desirable compact Mac and it's good you have it in working order. System 7 likes more than several MB of RAM. The SE/30 mobos, they need recapping soon, if they haven't been already. Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Museum report Saturday 3/10
by Herb Johnson 11 Mar '18

11 Mar '18

> Once we get a new iPod or repair the existing one >> for the Apple I replica it will be twelve! Good work on the Apple II's. Either you Tony or Jeff Brace will know: the iPod carries programs stored as audio files which the Apple I reads like an audio cassette. Do you happen to know the analog sampling frequency and sample bit-size for those files? I'm in the world of COSMAC cassettes now, and digitized WAV files. So I'd like to know plausible parameters for cassette-based data files read by actual hardware. Herb "8-track" Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 11 Mar '18

11 Mar '18

Me, Adam, Tony, and new volunteer Laura were all at the museum today. Things that got done: - Laura painted the two custom UNIVAC pallets that Drom built. (He's still building the others.) - Tony (a few days ago) installed a new custom MOBIDIC display case in the hallway. It looks great! Roddy (artist across the hall from us) volunteered to spackle some "extra" drill holes (my fault, not Tony's) and then we'll paint over it. - Martin had the new 1u SuperMicro server shipped to us. It didn't come with memory or a hard drive. I bought 4GB RAM (max that the server can take but it's plenty for our use). Dean donated a 240GB SSD: we put on Ubuntu with Mate, SSH, Apache, and (just for fun) xScreenSaver. I chose the green-font Matrix display full of hex characters. :) Racked it, attached the new keyboard/trackpad donated by Cherry Americas, and attached my old home LCD onto the VESA rack bracket from Martin. Finally we installed a rack shelf (also from Martin) which will hold the non-rackable BBS server and analog PBX. (Will post pictures when I get home in a bit.) - Laura and I sorted eight boxes of Commodore software. - Adam and I reorganized stuff to sell at VCF East (if nobody wants it at the April workshop). It's all consolidated onto three pallets in one aisle of the warehouse. - Tony played tour guide. Around a dozen visitors today.

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Museum report Saturday 3/10
by Tony Bogan 10 Mar '18

10 Mar '18

Two visitors all day today, a father and son, and they showed up literally as I was locking the outside door. Got a lot done today. Started around 10:30 this morning loading up Apple IIs from the warehouse to work on. I picked up our new server for the museum (Dan Jacobs and Martin Flynn were at IXR and had it waiting for me) and also got two more compact Macs for VCF from them (a Mac plus and Mac classic) I was able to get half a dozen apple computers tested, fixed (as needed) and working, tagged and back in the warehouse. A couple others need more repairs than I had time for and I brought another four out to evaluate. The goal is to have all the compact Macs and apple IIs (and any other machines I have time for before my busy season at work begins) tested and tagged with serial numbers, working condition, known issues etc. to facilitate entering the information in the new archiving/inventory software we will be getting soon (hopefully) I was up on Thursday and got the new MOBIDIC shelf (temporary till time permits to make a "good" one) up in the hallway and at that time got some of the tablets in the museum running again (d-link router had come unplugged!) I finished reconnecting the rest to the network today (some want to hook to the vcf wifi instead of the tablet wifi after restarting or losing the network) so for the moment all the tablets are functioning within normal operating parameters. I also made a couple super simple display programs/screens for a couple machines in the museum too. There are eleven of the micros in the museum that are running well. (Not counting ones that may work but are not hooked up to monitors) Once we get a new iPod or repair the existing one for the Apple I replica it will be twelve! There may be others ready to go but I am only familiar with twelve of them :-) Big shout out to Jeff B., Doug Crawford and Chris Fala for educating me in the ways of the commodore! Tony

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Museum shout out
by Tony Bogan 10 Mar '18

10 Mar '18

Been here at the museum since 10:30 working on tagging and fixing apple IIs from the warehouse and other jobs. Will be docent here all day if anyone has nothing to do over the next 5 1/2 hours feel free to stop by!! :-) Tony Sent from my iPhone

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OT: Mechanical Computer with Marbles
by Joseph Oprysko 10 Mar '18

10 Mar '18

I read a post elsewhere and heard that there’s also a YouTube video (but I haven’t watched it) of this rather cool looking device called Turing Tumble. Apparently it is a Kickstarter funded mechanical computer made of plastic and marbles. It kind of reminds me of the Digicomp II mechanical computer from the late 1960’s. https://www.turingtumble.com/ -- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?

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Tomorrow @ Liberty Science Center
by Evan Koblentz 10 Mar '18

10 Mar '18

I'll be at the Liberty Science Center (Jersey City, NJ) all day tomorrow demonstrating the 1987 Lego robotics kit with our Laser 128. It's as much fun for me as for kids! Feel free to come visit! Random idea: one of these days I should disassemble the forklift-style robot and make something evoking Johnny No. 5 instead. :) #nodisassemble #evanalive

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{vcf-midatlantic] [Semi-OT] 3D Printing Replacement Parts
by Herb Johnson 09 Mar '18

09 Mar '18

> The limiting factor in all these technologies is more the > imagination and skill of the user, and less the technologies > themselves. Sure, capabilities grow with time, but incredible > things are made every day, with very basic tools. But I think, vintage computer owners (and reporters, and investors) are spoiled by the revolutionary successes in personal and embedded computing, and carried (past tense) those feelings over to 3D printers and their development and use. This was my essential gripe in the previous discussion. Now, we have dispensed with this issue. People are talking about here-and-now use to make vintage computing parts; reasonable expectations, actual results. Dave McGuire did not post about "incredible things" made, but in fact CREDIBLE things - like that finger splint. He could have used popsickle sticks and string; but his local printer + thingiverse design = useful widget. (shrug) 3D printers may simply become like waffle irons and pancake mix: something you do when needed and ignored soon after. Of course they could do more; like icecream cones. ;) > You can do quite a bit, and in very high quality, if you take > the time to properly learn to design parts. First - 3D printers are pretty sophisticated tools. Better tools do a better job for ANY user. Beginners need a BETTER tool than those with experience. And now, there's better printers on the market (among others), and better resources. In any event, printing toggles is not a big stretch of available technology. > curate a library of 3D printable parts that are > directly related to vintage computer systems. Second - get the plans from someone who has that better experience, better tools. This is what they do in the home-machinist magazines today; they did it in the Pop Science, Pop Mechanics, Pop 'tronics magazines years ago. It was done a century ago in those magazines. 'Fer instance: http://www.retrotechnology.com/restore/boy_mechanic.html > The most notable item is the eject gear for the Apple 3.5" disk > drive that has finally been (dare I say it) "perfected." I know about those eject-mechs, I've sold some as replacements. I see how those gears fail. And I was skeptical about printed gears. This is a real case-in-point and I'm glad Tony Bogan brought it up. Some vintage Macs are close to 40 years old and their plastics are FAILING - repeat, failing. These are real vintage-computing issues. Oh - it's good design to make a part KNOWN TO FAIL. Example - a fuse. Then you can stock and replace only one part, and fix the underlying cause. So I need those gears, and some of those toggles too, and other parts. Some I may have to design, they are uncommon. I'll read this thread with interest and I hope for some collective efforts from it. Even a list of success stories and good printers and CAD tools works for me. Thanks! Herb Johnson plastics are the future -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Printing on 14" greenbar
by Evan Koblentz 08 Mar '18

08 Mar '18

Who in the group has (any) computer + printer that is ready-to-go for printing on 14" greenbar? This is for a VCFed collaboration opportunity with another organization (I can't elaborate right now).

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Printing on 14" greenbar
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Mar '18

07 Mar '18

Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: > Well I suppose that depends on the (unstated) intent. The printers >won't be leaving LSSM, but we are happy to print stuff for >people/projects/etc. They might need a really freakin' long BC22D! :P

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Printing on 14" greenbar
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Mar '18

07 Mar '18

Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: >On 03/07/2018 04:23 PM, Brian Schenkenberger via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >>> On 03/07/2018 03:22 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > >Who >> in the group has (any) computer + printer that is ready-to-go for >> >> printing on 14" greenbar? This is for a VCFed collaboration >opportunity >>> with another organization (I can't elaborate right now). >>> >> We have several in operable condition over at LSSM. > > LOL! > > ? My guess is he's not going to trek to P'burgh to get one! ;) I DO have a working DEC LA-120 DEcwriter and a large box of greenbar fan-fold; albeit, I never print on its greenbar side. I hate loooking at it.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Printing on 14" greenbar
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Mar '18

07 Mar '18

Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: >On 03/07/2018 03:22 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > Who >in the group has (any) computer + printer that is ready-to-go for > >printing on 14" greenbar? This is for a VCFed collaboration opportunity >> with another organization (I can't elaborate right now). > > We have several in operable condition over at LSSM. LOL!

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Printing on 14" greenbar
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Mar '18

07 Mar '18

Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic writes: >Who in the group has (any) computer + printer that is ready-to-go for >printing on 14" greenbar? This is for a VCFed collaboration opportunity >with another organization (I can't elaborate right now). Like, perhaps, an LA-120 DECwriter???

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Need to change April workshop date
by Bill Degnan 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

note that's VCF SE's weekend. On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Evan Koblentz <evan(a)vcfed.org> > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 14:42:14 -0500 > Subject: Need to change April workshop date > A bunch of Sandy volunteers (yes it's still happening) need to use the > barracks area April 7-8. That bumps us. (Don't worry, it's set in stone for > VCF East weekend.) > > They said we could reschedule to April 21-22 or 28-29. > > Vote here: https://doodle.com/poll/vyyvb324ah8i8bvw ... whichever date > has the most votes by 11:59pm this Thursday wins. > > Votes via reply to this message will not be counted. > >

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Need to change April workshop date
by Evan Koblentz 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

A bunch of Sandy volunteers (yes it's still happening) need to use the barracks area April 7-8. That bumps us. (Don't worry, it's set in stone for VCF East weekend.) They said we could reschedule to April 21-22 or 28-29. Vote here: https://doodle.com/poll/vyyvb324ah8i8bvw ... whichever date has the most votes by 11:59pm this Thursday wins. Votes via reply to this message will not be counted.

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Correct link for April 7-8 workshop
by Evan Koblentz 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

Corrected link: https://tinyurl.com/yam5mnpc On Mar 6, 2018 11:06 AM, "corey cohen via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: I’ll be Sunday at some point. Maybe Saturday night also if my family is tired of me since my kids are off all the previous week from school. corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ > On Mar 6, 2018, at 10:39 AM, J. Alexander Jacocks via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > Confirmed. > > - Alex > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > >> Same here. Regenerate the tiny url. >> >> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 10:34 AM Jeff Galinat via vcf-midatlantic < >> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:58 PM Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic < >>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Here's the signup sheet for the April 7-8 workshop: >>>> http://tinyurl.com/yd3mxfsu >>>> >>> Hi Evan, >>> That link does not seem to work for me. I clicked and/or copied it in >> both >>> Safari & Chrome and it just brought me to the default Google Search page. >>> It might just be a problem on my end so I wanted to see if others have >>> problems with it. >>> Regards, >>> Jeff >>> >>

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Connor's famous (again)
by Brian L. Stuart 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

On Tue, 3/6/18, Connor Krukosky via vcf-midatlantic <vcfmidatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > Wow, yup, I need to go to bed, thought I sent it to JUST Evan and... > Welp, here I am spamming the list now (rolls eyes) > Yup I'm still human guys. Don't worry, still making just as many > mistakes as I always have haha. Don't think it got to > my head too much yet, though maybe it has a little... Some of > you keep me in my place sometimes, and thanks ;) > (Looking at you Ian haha) Connor, Staying grounded is certainly a good thing, but at the same time, you're on an incredible adventure that I suspect more than a few of us envy. And it may well be the only time in history that ignoring Dave's sage advice worked out. :) I think it's safe to say we're all proud of you and look forward to seeing you at VCF. For that matter, I'd like to see you give a keynote at a VCF sometime where you tell us all about this adventure. BLS

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] East XIII exhibit registration is open!
by Evan Koblentz 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

>> is their advanced tickets via paypal too ? or just wait till that wknd ? There will be. It's not ready. On Mar 6, 2018 12:18 PM, "Dan Roganti" <ragooman(a)gmail.com> wrote: is their advanced tickets via paypal too ? or just wait till that wknd ? Dan

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East XIII exhibit registration is open!
by Evan Koblentz 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

Aaaaaaaand ..... go! http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-east/vcf-east-exhib…

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Sign up: April 7-8 workshop
by Evan Koblentz 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

Here's the signup sheet for the April 7-8 workshop: http://tinyurl.com/yd3mxfsu

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[Semi-OT] 3D Printing Replacement Parts (Was: Re: About Bill's message)
by J. Alexander Jacocks 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

A concrete item that you can see today is the power switch on the IBM PS/2 Model 76, in the museum. It was broken at some point in the past, and I 3D printed a replacement. One way that you can deal with the limited number of colors available in PLA/PET/ABS filament is to dye the results. For an example, see this article in Make <https://makezine.com/2013/05/09/how-to-dye-your-3d-prints/> magazine. You can do quite a bit, and in very high quality, if you take the time to properly learn to design parts. All the things that are required for the design of professionally made injection-molded parts (clearance, tolerance, wear, etc.) are also necessary to get a good quality result out of FDM. And, of course, there is SLA, if you really need fine detail. And last, there are those, like myself, who also tinker in the subtractive manufacturing arena that is CNC machining. That produces quite a bit more robust parts, from any machinable material, including ferrous metals. The limiting factor in all these technologies is more the imagination and skill of the user, and less the technologies themselves. Sure, capabilities grow with time, but incredible things are made every day, with very basic tools. - Alex On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:16 AM, Dave Wade via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic- > > bounces(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> On Behalf Of Herb Johnson > > via vcf-midatlantic > > Sent: 06 March 2018 03:35 > > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org > > > > Cc: Herb Johnson <hjohnson(a)retrotechnology.info> > > Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] About Bill's message > > > > > Creating a library of open-source vintage computing parts * IS * a > > > good idea. Bill: if you'd like to lead the effort then you have my > support. > > > > I agree, it's a good idea. If Bill agrees, I hope he changes the subject > line! hint > > hint > > > > There's a number of toggles that people try to 3D print, varying degrees > of > > success. Maybe keycaps? Light covers? These are small parts and printing > a > > few at a time gives some "scale" to the effort. Tricks like coloring the > plastics > > are good to know. > > > > I think Keycaps are better made with modelling moulding compounds. > > > > Nice thing about collecting models, is that most all 3D printers use the > same > > modeling language. There are some collections of models out there (no > > magic "git" thank goodness) so those could be pointed to. I think I know > a > > few locations .... > > > > I'm not against 3D printers - just skeptical about their results. But > these are > > not a big stretch. And if there's cooperative colleagues among us to > test, we > > can find out! IXR locally also has, or had, a 3D printer > > - Neil can speak to that. Our friend Matt with the $200 printer, can > participate > > too. We might pass the hat to buy plastic noodles... it is OK to call > them that? > > ;) > > The results can be good, but its not just point and shoot. I think where > they really com in is for new prts to adapt old machines. E.g. > > https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1592139 > > Dave > > > > > herb > > > > -- > > Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA > > http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net > > preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing > > email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com > > or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info > >

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OT: Re: Is it just me or.....
by Herb Johnson 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

> One major difference between the PC and 3DP is the latter will require > substantial materials advancements to make it usefully mainstream and there > doesn't seem to be a Moore's law driving that. That statement, hints at something important. I'm tired of every techie/consumer/science advancement in the last few decades, being compared to the personal computing revolution and to "Moore's Law". Digital technology - almost ALL of it - has advanced in doing THE SAME THING: representing a one or zero with smaller physical hardware. Below the microscopic, it's now below WAVELENGTHS OF LIGHT. OK? Re-read those statements. That's the corollary to Moore's Law. Now: will a 3D printer "advance", by printing pea-sized beer-can openers? Is a 3D printed car a revolution - if it's Hot Wheels sized? So, 3D printing + Moore's Law = zero. Detailed discussion of 3D printing is, as Evan noted, off-topic. But as an engineer, I see that 3D printers have to do more than print plastic forks to be useful to most consumers, and to many techs. But to handle more robust materials, you need more robust tools. A hot tip and a gear to extrude plastic noodles won't get you there. Sorry to those disappointed, but as I said, expectations are too high, the suggested comparison fails. But we vintage computerists, are in the best position, to deny the premise that "3D printing will be the next revolution, like personal computers". We (some of us) know WHY personal computing (and embedded computing) were revolutionary. From an engineering view, 3D printing will be at best, *evolutionary*, like many other advances in technology and materials and processes. Herb Johnson BSEE 1976 -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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About Bill's message
by Herb Johnson 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

> Creating a library of open-source vintage computing parts * IS * a good > idea. Bill: if you'd like to lead the effort then you have my support. I agree, it's a good idea. If Bill agrees, I hope he changes the subject line! hint hint There's a number of toggles that people try to 3D print, varying degrees of success. Maybe keycaps? Light covers? These are small parts and printing a few at a time gives some "scale" to the effort. Tricks like coloring the plastics are good to know. Nice thing about collecting models, is that most all 3D printers use the same modeling language. There are some collections of models out there (no magic "git" thank goodness) so those could be pointed to. I think I know a few locations .... I'm not against 3D printers - just skeptical about their results. But these are not a big stretch. And if there's cooperative colleagues among us to test, we can find out! IXR locally also has, or had, a 3D printer - Neil can speak to that. Our friend Matt with the $200 printer, can participate too. We might pass the hat to buy plastic noodles... it is OK to call them that? ;) herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Connor's famous (again)
by Evan Koblentz 06 Mar '18

06 Mar '18

Front-and-center on IBM.com right now.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] About Bill's message
by Dave McGuire 05 Mar '18

05 Mar '18

You wrote: > I know I've seen 3D printed switches for mini's show up a few times. > Back in 2015, Christopher Parish had a handful of 3D printed > replacement switche paddles for his HP minicomputer. > While I can't put my finger on it, I seem to recall seeing similar > ones for the PDP-8/e but maybe that's a fig newton of my imagination. > Am I remembering this right? (Alex, man, I love ya like a brother, but for the love of God PLEASE fix your mail client) Vince Slyngstad has designed a number of things for the DEC world, including front panel switches: http://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php I've printed a few of these with good results. There are three 3D printers here in my lab. I use them with some frequency to make random replacement parts, and quite a lot for customer prototyping applications. I.e., "real work". These are not toys. For all of the assertions in this thread about them being so fiddly, etc, that's really not the case today. These are all Monoprice-branded models (one each of their Mini, Plus, and Ultimate models), and they are essentially plug-and-go, right out of the box. This is not news. I am not a 3D printing "hobbyist" or "hacker". I have enough time-sinks in my life and I do not need or want another. I do, however, need to get work done, which occasionally means making parts, without screwing around, as I have no time to waste. With today's affordable 3D printers this is very much a practical thing, and I do it all the time here with excellent results. Yes, you do need to learn how to use them properly. But the same goes for any tool, even a hammer or a screwdriver. But I would expect a mailing list full of computer people, i.e. thouse with a significantly higher I.Q. than the average slob on the street, should be able to figure that out. Sometimes it's not for work purposes. I messed up my thumb pretty good a few days ago and needed a splint. I found a thumb splint on Thingiverse, and...less than half an hour later, my thumb was in a splint. Nay-say all you want, folks, but it's here. Come see if you don't believe me. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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About Bill's message
by Evan Koblentz 05 Mar '18

05 Mar '18

Bill Deg. wrote: >> I keep giving away good ideas and then they're taken without giving me credit The short comment is, "He's right." And that should be rectified. Since day 1 of MARCH -- around fall 2004 -- Bill has been my top adviser. Various MARCH and then VCFed officers have come/gone, but Bill's always been there to give us great ideas and help me understand ways to improve my own ideas. Repair workshops were Bill's idea. (I said they wouldn't succeed.) The holiday party was Bill's idea. (I said nobody would go.) A sales area at VCF East was Bill's idea. (I said it would be too difficult.) Hands-on restorations of the museum items were largely Bill's idea. (I said we couldn't pull it off.) The list goes on... I hope to learn my lesson one of these decades, which is "Listen to Bill." Creating a library of open-source vintage computing parts * IS * a good idea. Bill: if you'd like to lead the effort then you have my support.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Mac OS 7.1 Terminal Emulator & BBS software
by Joseph Oprysko 05 Mar '18

05 Mar '18

Oh, my mistake, it’s not 1.5 mb, it’s 8mb. But my hard drive sounds very gummy. Where it’ll slow down and stop spinning occasionally. I haven’t opened it up to see which model hard drive to see if there’s something I can do to clean up the spindle motor/bearings On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 3:20 PM Ben Greenfield via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > > On Mar 4, 2018, at 2:29 PM, Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > > I've got 128MB (unofficial maximum) installed in mine. Makes a big > > difference. > > > Wow! I have got to try that, > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 1:42 PM Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic < > > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > >>> on my SE/30,... (running 7.1) as I only have 1.5mb of Ram. > >> > >> What? An SE/30 has eight 30-pin SIMM slots. Get some 4MB SIMM's! Fill > >> that puppy *up*! - Herb > >> > >> -- > >> Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA > >> http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net > >> > > -- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?

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Mac OS 7.1 Terminal Emulator & BBS software
by Herb Johnson 04 Mar '18

04 Mar '18

> on my SE/30,... (running 7.1) as I only have 1.5mb of Ram. What? An SE/30 has eight 30-pin SIMM slots. Get some 4MB SIMM's! Fill that puppy *up*! - Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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