- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Museum Tour 2017-08-11 August 11, 2017
by Jeffrey Brace 12 Aug '17

12 Aug '17

A group of forty-five children (about 8 years old) from Camp WOW (I believe through Children of America) came to InfoAge to tour all the museums. They were split into two groups. They all seemed to enjoy the museum. It's nice to have large groups to show off the museum. They were interested, well behaved and asked a lot of good questions. -- ======================================================== Jeff Brace ========================================================

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Found this in the side of a NeXT monitor.
by Douglas Crawford 12 Aug '17

12 Aug '17

http://imgur.com/6cxLW3x

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IBM 3740 FM Disks and Catweasel
by william degnan 11 Aug '17

11 Aug '17

Anyone who cares... Using my XOR S-4 S-100 computer I built IBM 3740 disks (SDSS) tonight. I had to replace a cap near the 7812 and one of the 1488 drivers on the CPU I/O card first, to get the system to work, but after that I was all set. 128 bytes 26 sectors per track, ~241K capacity. There were a lot of disk formats back then, I had to double check I was building the right thing as the old systems are flexible yet cryptic. So, should I attempt to build or image disks using the catweasel MK4 as the drive controller I have an actual disk to play with, or image disk. The XOR S-4 system I am using has Mitubishi M2896-63-02U drives, they're 8" DS/DD and the disk controller uses a 1795 FDC chip. The computer with the Catweasel has a Tandon 848. I'll post more details on my site as I make progress with photos. Bill

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Mac SE coming to Workshop
by Adam Rosen 11 Aug '17

11 Aug '17

Useless historical tidbit: SE was short for System Expansion. It was the first compact Mac with an expansion slot. That six slot Mac II was beyond the reach of mere mortals (or at least undergrads). At that time in the Mac world having even one expansion slot was a big deal… Unfortunately 30 years later, the same pain persists… > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:10 PM, Jeff Brace <jeffrey(a)vcfed.org> wrote: > > I love my SE/30 because I got a Daystar Accelerator which allows hookup to a color monitor and also makes it 40Mhz! Loved it! > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Adam Rosen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org <mailto:vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org>> wrote: > Actually correcting myself: the SE/30 is a 16MHz 68030, not 30MHz. (Damn human memory issues…) It also has a 68882 math coprocessor, which the standard SE does not. > > -- > ============= > Jeff Brace

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Mac SE coming to Workshop
by Herb Johnson 11 Aug '17

11 Aug '17

Degnan: I am picking up a MAC SE model 5011 with a bad SCSi HD (I am told) on the way to the workshop Saturday to play around with. Not sure if anyone is into these I think the hard drive is bad... ------------------------------------ It bugs me sometimes, that many of my VCFians don't realize I've been fixing and selling classic Macs and parts for about 20 years. http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/mac.html Old hard-drives fail for the factual reasons cited. Smacking hard drives to release them from what most call "stiction", works in various ways, depending on the actual physical fault, which isn't always "stiction". On compact Macs, there's bad connections which a smack on the case will verify and sometimes "fix". Just as in an earlier post, I suggested removing IC chips from sockets, fixes (or causes) bad connections. As for stickers on Macs. I don't engage in voodoo discussions, but sometimes voodoo methods have a basis in fact. A properly placed smack! is an exercise in physics; a properly placed decal is an exercise in art, or voodoo. Bill Degnan is an old friend of mine, but sometimes I think he "smacks" the VCFed NJ list, just to see if it "fixes" the discussion, or just to watch the sparks fly. Three times is the charm, Bill. Or...three strikes and 'yer OUT! ;) Herb "wack-a-mole" Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Stuff for sale - taking requests for anything workshop attendees would like to see.
by Douglas Crawford 11 Aug '17

11 Aug '17

I'll pack and bring to the workshop anything that folks are interested in. General Past projects, restored: - Amiga 3000, working, boots off hard disk, with cleaned keyboard, and pregnant mouse. $550 - TRS-80 Model III badged 16k,but 48k installed, diskless model, works great, have loaded files through cassette port from wave player. $150 - TRS-80 Model III 48k, Empty drive bays, but has drive supports and untested drive power supply. $100 - Kaypro 10, working ST-225 drive installed and loaded with both Perfect Software and Micropro software suites, reproduction install floppies. $300 - Commodore 8032, very nice, Everything I could think of to test all worked. Tested IEEE port with PETDisk. Saves and loads from Cassette. Keyboard was restored with conductive coating on the plungers. $275 - PC Junior monitor, works end of cord is not factory (I got it that way :) ). Nice looking, not yellowed. $45 FREE Stuff: - TRS-80 Model IV shell- just case, tube and video. Video board may not work. (not shown in the photos. Its presentable.) FREE - Kaypro II shell: case, Kbd shell, tube, and power supply. No drives. FREE APPLE: Compact macs: all work: I powered them up, screen, kbd, mouse, tested that the floppies mount and read. - Macintosh SE, ADB II dbd, Bus II mouse, Nice, dual floppy with SCSI drive that all works, System 7 installed. Video caps replaced. $200 - Macintosh 512K, yellowed, Ext. Kbd, cord, and Mouse, case flaw on top over what is a hot spot of the video board. $200 - G4 PowerPC Desktop, 800Mhz single proc, kbd and mouse $10 - Apple Studio CRT Monitor (shown paired with the 800Mhz G4 demonstrating that it all works) $100 each - G4 Desktop 450Mhz Dual Proc, System unit only. Case doesn't latch but looks nice. Works. THINKPADS: All have bad batteries of course but they run, as seen in the IMGUR photos. - IBM Thinkpad 380-D Win95 Laptop, works, Screen has bad pixels on left side, CMOS battery dead. - IBM Thinkpad 600E Win98 - IBM Thinkpad iSeries 1420 Win98 Professional CMOS battery dead, burried deep inside I think. And for your listening pleasure while you restore stuff: - Polk Audio bookshelf speakers

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S100 hybrid IMSAI/MITs on Ebay
by Herb Johnson 11 Aug '17

11 Aug '17

Bill Degnan says: [link to IMSAI on eBay] Assuming this was assembled in the late 70's early 80's from parts of "older" machines. I am sure Herb would agree there were a lot more of these kinds of S-100 machines used. Most early "stock" S-100 systems were modified and did not survive into the 80's in their original stock configuration. I bet the person who buys this will take the parts and use them to "complete" other machines to return those to stock condition, destroying the historical evidence that most computers of the 70's were hacked. or paint the grey TAI chassis to make it blue. I do understand about the financial value incentive to buy/sell stock items, but historically there is a price to pay, lost knowledge. ------------------------------------- Bill evoked my name, so I'll respond, but try not to take all the "bait". By the way, the system in question was re-offered as a mixed system, it has pieces of IMSAI, TEI and other brands of boards in it. That's more informative, if not honest, of the seller to do. To Bill's point. It's a simple fact of history, that most owners of early S-100 systems (before they were sold as complete turn-key disk-based systems), bought them in pieces, modified them like crazy, mixed board-brands like crazy, made their own boards. This was done for good reasons, at the time. and...it's still done today. In the era, it was not "hacking", it was normal and necessary. It was critical to, and demonstrated, the growth of the industry. That is the history. So notions of "stock IMSAI 8080" or "stock MITS Altair" are mostly ...(hitting delete key repeatedly)....not consistent with actual history of use. Some are, and that's fine too, IMSAI and MITS sold stock complete systems (with branded disk drives and controllers, etc.) I have some brand-systems myself (Ithaca Intersystems comes to mind). It's pointless for me to tell other people what to do today with things they own or buy. Or to argue the merits of a stock system versus non-stock. It is not pointless, for me (or Bill Degnan) to represent and inform, about actual history of use, of a brand or of one system. The lost knowledge that Bill speaks of, is knowledge of the diversity of IMSAI/Altair compatible boards, and the history of S-100 companies, and the stories of individuals through the S-100 computers they put together, for purpose. It's a rich history, as I suggested. Some of the S-100 systems or boards on my Web site, have a history to them which I've described. Bill does the same on his site. s100computers.com has many histories of S-100 companies as part of the design history of the boards shown on-site. There's many other sites which discuss "history". Those individual efforts matter. It's not done much in books; there's some vintage-magazines with articles. Most of the published "histories", the professional historians, if they bother focus on a handful of computer brands and only a few early, specific systems. Antique professionals hardly care at all about old computers. There's exceptions of course. Thus, the burden of preserving this history, falls MOSTLY on individual "hobbyists", and a handful of institutions (some small, some not) who care to do the same. The downside, is the indifference and lack of respect, for amateurs, from professionals. Hardly a new phenomena. I really don't want to argue about this. People, institutions, publishers, professionals - all make their choices to suit their interests and resources. And so do I. I'm responsible for my efforts, not someone else's. My work speaks for itself. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Tarbell DD controller troubleshooting
by Herb Johnson 11 Aug '17

11 Aug '17

Rich Cini: ...Tarbell DD controller for a machine I’m restoring and it doesn’t respond to any manual communications with the board using the test routines in the manual. ...Since it’s jumper-selectable for port ranges, I’ve tried both ranges. [Says he may replace the 8208 bus transcievers - what's a substitute?] ..A second Tarbell DD controller which won’t allow the CPU to come out of reset. -------------------- Pardon me for brief do-this suggestions, to save reading time and for clarity. And hello to my good friend and S-100 colleague Rich Cini. On the "can't address" board. Use an oscilloscope to look at the chip-enable signals for the floppy controller chip and data latches. See if the chips are being addressed when you send the IO read or write. Then trace backward to the I/O decoding and the bus pins. Or, start from the bus and trace "forward", your choice. Find the fault. There's many kinds of faults which can occur on any 1970's S-100 board. A common one is corroded IC pins and sockets. "Corrosion" comes in many flavors, as has been discussed in the S-100 community. "Replacing the chips" may simply clean the bad connection or remove the corroded chip; for awhile. Look for Ithaca Intersystems on my Web site for details. On the "stuck at reset" board. I don't know what that means. For this you may need a "divide and conquer" strategy. Presuming your board has socketed chips, remove the chips that access the S-100 bus, one by one; until the board no longer "sticks" the bus. When that happens, look at the schematic to see what function that last removed chip performed. Then add chips back in reverse order, to confirm the "stuck". By definition you MIGHT start with any chips on the bus reset lines. But "stuck at reset" is a vague symptom - your alternative strategy is to look (o-scope) at the reset lines on the bus, see if they are actually asserted and trace back on the Tarbell board to see what's asserting them. If those lines are OK at the bus, then you can try to determine the exact problem by bus signals. Maybe the data lines are jammed up, maybe it's the status or control lines, or address lines. Rich, I have a general argument for use of diagnostic methods - like the ones I've mentioned - over asking around for someone's list of known failures. (shrug) but you wanted some directions and not a lecture. My Web site has lots of examples of how I diagnose S-100 problems. Do the same things happen on one brand and model of S-100 board? Yeah, if the design is the problem, or if part-producers had a problem (poor sockets, chips that rust up). Otherwise, I think an oscilloscope and a schematic, and a working S-100 system, are your best friends. They will get you in the ballpark on some board. Then you can ask for specific help, or figure out the problem. Herb Johnson retrotechnology.com -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Updates -- TV/monitor stuff
by Evan Koblentz 11 Aug '17

11 Aug '17

Update for Jeff/Corey: I talked to Adam and Dean, both of whom helped determine which monitors/TVs to keep and which to sell/recycle. We decided to move the 27" Sony TV from the sell/recycle pile back into the keep pile. It's a good TV for certain artifacts-of-the-month, it's good for some VCF East exhibitors, good for Festivus, and so on. Update for everyone: decided on my own to remove Bernie S.'s former prison TV from the sell/recycle pile. I talked to him and we made came up with a plan: he's going to autograph it for us, and then he supports us eBay-ing it or selling it at the next VCF East. After all it's a federal prison TV used by a famous hacker! Too important to let go for ten bucks. But we still don't need it, so we'll get real value from it. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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using catweasel to format an RX01
by william degnan 10 Aug '17

10 Aug '17

Anyone ever formated an 8" disk to be used in an RX01 using a catweasel controller? Curious if it's worth trying this route. I have a Tandon 848 drive. Bill

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Museum Report 2017-08-09 August 9, 2017
by Jeffrey Brace 09 Aug '17

09 Aug '17

About a dozen visitors today with varying interest. Corey and I took care of a maintenance project in the museum. -- ======================================================== Jeff Brace ========================================================

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] the binary programmer cartoon
by Jeffrey Jonas 09 Aug '17

09 Aug '17

re: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/209/503496984_bc43812ff6_o.jpg It's a Far Side style cartoon "real programmers code in binary" showing a fellow at a CRT displaying only ones and zeroes. The kybd has 3 keys: 0 1 enter I'm not amused, nor is anyone who uses front panels, whether toggle switched or pushbuttons. At least we "enter the program" in binary. Even Evan's doing that now! Some systems have pushbuttons that encourage "chording" in octal: the kembak, Univac, HP, etc. There's a reason all computers up to the 70s had huge front panels. The binary status REALLY MATTERED. -- Jeff Jonas

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S100 hybrid IMSAI/MITs on Ebay
by william degnan 09 Aug '17

09 Aug '17

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Vintage-IMSAI-8080-Computer-Microcomputer-/192… Assuming this was assembled in the late 70's early 80's from parts of "older" machines. I am sure Herb would agree there were a lot more of these kinds of S-100 machines used. Most early "stock" S-100 systems were modified and did not survive into the 80's in their original stock configuration. I bet the person who buys this will take the parts and use them to "complete" other machines to return those to stock condition, destroying the historical evidence that most computers of the 70's were hacked. or paint the grey TAI chassis to make it blue. I do understand about the financial value incentive to buy/sell stock items, but historically there is a price to pay, lost knowledge. Bill

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Stuff for sale
by Douglas Crawford 09 Aug '17

09 Aug '17

The AppleColor monitor is claimed. ------------ I'll keep reposting an update list like this as we go: The projects have stacked up too high... so I'm lightening my inventory! These are being first offered to folks who can pick up at the workshop and to folks local to Pottstown PA for pickup. What doesn't sell now might be offered later for the next workshop or ebayed. Suggested retail prices are given, taking reasonable offers of course. Generally taking best offers, at my discretion. I might be persuaded to a cut additional break if you have a cool project purpose. Everything can be seen here: http://imgur.com/a/Mz4Cv General Past projects, restored: - Amiga 3000, working, boots off hard disk, with cleaned keyboard, and pregnant mouse. $550 - TRS-80 Model III badged 16k,but 48k installed, diskless model, works great, have loaded files through cassette port from wave player. $150 - TRS-80 Model III 48k, Empty drive bays, but has drive supports and untested drive power supply. $100 - Kaypro 10, working ST-225 drive installed and loaded with both Perfect Software and Micropro software suites, reproduction install floppies. $300 - Commodore 8032, very nice, Everything I could think of to test all worked. Tested IEEE port with PETDisk. Saves and loads from Cassette. Keyboard was restored with conductive coating on the plungers. $275 - PC Junior monitor, works end of cord is not factory (I got it that way :) ). Nice looking, not yellowed. $45 FREE Stuff: - TRS-80 Model IV shell- just case, tube and video. Video board may not work. (not shown in the photos. Its presentable.) FREE - Kaypro II shell: case, Kbd shell, tube, and power supply. No drives. FREE APPLE: Compact macs: all work: I powered them up, screen, kbd, mouse, tested that the floppies mount and read. - Macintosh SE, ADB II dbd, Bus II mouse, Nice, dual floppy with SCSI drive that all works, System 7 installed. Video caps replaced. $200 - Macintosh 512K, yellowed, Ext. Kbd, cord, and Mouse, case flaw on top over what is a hot spot of the video board. $200 - G4 PowerPC Desktop, 800Mhz single proc, kbd and mouse $10 - Apple Studio CRT Monitor (shown paired with the 800Mhz G4 demonstrating that it all works) $100 each - G4 Desktop 450Mhz Dual Proc, System unit only. Case doesn't latch but looks nice. Works. THINKPADS: All have bad batteries of course but they run, as seen in the IMGUR photos. - IBM Thinkpad 380-D Win95 Laptop, works, Screen has bad pixels on left side, CMOS battery dead. - IBM Thinkpad 600E Win98 - IBM Thinkpad iSeries 1420 Win98 Professional CMOS battery dead, burried deep inside I think. And for your listening pleasure while you restore stuff: - Polk Audio bookshelf speakers /************************************************************************** * In the batter's box * I may also be selling these items in the future but not committing to it. * Let me know if you have strong interest, don't ask me what I want for them- * tell me what they are worth TO YOU. (such a tease, I know) */ - Model IV, really nice one, NEED TO DELAY SELLING THIS at least UNTIL I get my 4D working. (seen in the main imgur) - Altos 580 CP/M MP/M Project. I have quite a bit of doc and disks for this. (seen in the main imgur) untested - DEC Rainbow project: See here: http://imgur.com/a/wHs4j rough - Amiga 4000 Works booting from floppy. http://imgur.com/a/YY6hK - Dual 8" floppy S-100 by Pegasis (Small time NJ S-100 board integrator)w/ rebadged (shoddilly) Televideo 925 Terminal. (seen in the main imgur) There is extensive documentation and working media for this. - SD Systems big hulking industrial S-100 system populated with complete SD System cards! http://imgur.com/a/4GNWB - AT&T / Teletype 5425 Terminal that goes with things like the ATT 3B computers. Very nice, works great. PS2 - IBM PS2 Model 77 486DX2 Desktop - IBM PS2 Model 30 286 Desktop - IBM PS2 Model 56 SX Desktop **************************************************************************

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Stuff for sale
by Douglas Crawford 09 Aug '17

09 Aug '17

The projects have stacked up too high... so I'm lightening my inventory! These are being first offered to folks who can pick up at the workshop and to folks local to Pottstown PA for pickup. What doesn't sell now might be offered later for the next workshop or ebayed. Suggested retail prices are given, taking reasonable offers of course. Generally taking best offers, at my discretion. I might be persuaded to a cut additional break if you have a cool project purpose. Everything can be seen here: http://imgur.com/a/Mz4Cv General Past projects, restored: - Amiga 3000, working, boots off hard disk, with cleaned keyboard, and pregnant mouse. $550 - TRS-80 Model III badged 16k,but 48k installed, diskless model, works great, have loaded files through cassette port from wave player. $150 - TRS-80 Model III 48k, Empty drive bays, but has drive supports and untested drive power supply. $100 - Kaypro 10, working ST-225 drive installed and loaded with both Perfect Software and Micropro software suites, reproduction install floppies. $300 - Commodore 8032, very nice, Everything I could think of to test all worked. Tested IEEE port with PETDisk. Saves and loads from Cassette. Keyboard was restored with conductive coating on the plungers. $275 - PC Junior monitor, works end of cord is not factory (I got it that way :) ). Nice looking, not yellowed. $45 FREE Stuff: - TRS-80 Model IV shell- just case, tube and video. Video board may not work. (not shown in the photos. Its presentable.) FREE - Kaypro II shell: case, Kbd shell, tube, and power supply. No drives. FREE APPLE: Compact macs: all work: I powered them up, screen, kbd, mouse, tested that the floppies mount and read. - Macintosh SE, ADB II dbd, Bus II mouse, Nice, dual floppy with SCSI drive that all works, System 7 installed. Video caps replaced. $200 - Macintosh 512K, yellowed, Ext. Kbd, cord, and Mouse, case flaw on top over what is a hot spot of the video board. $200 - AppleColor 13" RGB Monitor, quite yellowed (introduced 1987 for $1,647!) $80 - G4 PowerPC Desktop, 800Mhz single proc, kbd and mouse $10 - Apple Studio CRT Monitor (shown paired with the 800Mhz G4 demonstrating that it all works) $100 each - G4 Desktop 450Mhz Dual Proc, System unit only. Case doesn't latch but looks nice. Works. THINKPADS: All have bad batteries of course but they run, as seen in the IMGUR photos. - IBM Thinkpad 380-D Win95 Laptop, works, Screen has bad pixels on left side, CMOS battery dead. - IBM Thinkpad 600E Win98 - IBM Thinkpad iSeries 1420 Win98 Professional CMOS battery dead, burried deep inside I think. And for your listening pleasure while you restore stuff: - Polk Audio bookshelf speakers /************************************************************************** * In the batter's box * I may also be selling these items in the future but not committing to it. * Let me know if you have strong interest, don't ask me what I want for them- * tell me what they are worth TO YOU. (such a tease, I know) */ - Model IV, really nice one, NEED TO DELAY SELLING THIS at least UNTIL I get my 4D working. (seen in the main imgur) - Altos 580 CP/M MP/M Project. I have quite a bit of doc and disks for this. (seen in the main imgur) untested - DEC Rainbow project: See here: http://imgur.com/a/wHs4j rough - Amiga 4000 Works booting from floppy. http://imgur.com/a/YY6hK - Dual 8" floppy S-100 by Pegasis (Small time NJ S-100 board integrator)w/ rebadged (shoddilly) Televideo 925 Terminal. (seen in the main imgur) There is extensive documentation and working media for this. - SD Systems big hulking industrial S-100 system populated with complete SD System cards! http://imgur.com/a/4GNWB - AT&T / Teletype 5425 Terminal that goes with things like the ATT 3B computers. Very nice, works great. PS2 - IBM PS2 Model 77 486DX2 Desktop - IBM PS2 Model 30 286 Desktop - IBM PS2 Model 56 SX Desktop **************************************************************************

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!)
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 08 Aug '17

08 Aug '17

Bob Applegate via vcf-midatlantic writes: >Just for reference, assembly language is still used quite a bit today in >the real world. ... >Knowing assembly is still a good skill to have. Hear, hear!

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!) (Jeffrey Jonas)
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 08 Aug '17

08 Aug '17

Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic writes: >My error on "real", Adam meant the old cliche "real programmers use >assembler". I apologize, I thought Adam was asserting that vintage >computing wasn't real when compared to day-job computing. Well, according to the book at least, they don't use Pascal! ;) >As for my 'dissing emulators. I have my priorities too: I'm preserving >hardware, because emulators make it easy to throw 'em out! And for >"circumstantial" reasons: my nuts-and-bolts BSEE for instance. It depends upon the emulator. FWIW, I have a laptop (HP Envy 17) which has 2 drive bays. One of its drives has Linux installed on it, the other drive has VMS. Yes, VMS. It boots up with a small stub program that loads Alpha virtualization (emulation) and then, boots the VMS image. Everything is as if it was running on a *real* Alpha. I can write Alpha assembler and debug it (Symbolic debugger or DELTA or XDELTA) just like on a real Alpha. I've used this for on-the-road development as well as for presentations because it is difficult to lug an Alpha system about (no Tadpole Laptop, albeit, I would like to find one). The only drawback is that the product is licensed via a small USB-dongle depriving me of one USB port of the laptop. Alpha virtualization: http://www.vax-alpha-emulation.com/p/emulation/alpha/

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assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!) (Jeffrey Jonas)
by Herb Johnson 08 Aug '17

08 Aug '17

There's some irony in discussing the tedium of assembly language programming, by using (excuse me) the tedium of emails as a learning and describing tool. It's my bias, but the hardest way to learn something, is by having several people explain it, post streams of details, argue amongst each other in the process, get sidetracked, etc. I understand, that's the 21st century way; no insult, it's just not my 20th century way (or my textbook way, I was formally educated in computing). Look. The vintage basis for assembly-language programming, included the limited resources available to microprocessor owners in the 1970's. Hand-assembly and front panels, limited memory, limited I/O, limited storage. Limited access to prior source-code. The other limitation was the owner him/herself: programming was likely a mystery, at least programming that particular processor, and later in time the mystery of whatever "system" architecture in use. Results matter. Those owners learned, became computing experts, who became employed in the personal-computer boom to come. So - that old-school way, mattered then; and matters now as a matter of historic preservation. So why preserve it? To remember the lessons of the 20th century past: a past of limited resources, versus the 21st century experiences of ABUNDANT, STANDARDIZED computing. And so, calling assembly language programming "tedious" misses these points, imposes those 21st century assumptions on 20th century tech. This is not some old man's problem with the future. My vintage Web site, attracts people who ask me "I wanna start with some vintage computing; where do I learn, how to program and repair these things?" I'm stumped - modern resources have mostly given up "assembly language" and "TTL logic" or even "read this schematic"! If the above is too "tedious", if you are messing with vintage computers "for fun", and don't care about historic perspective, that's fine. But you have a choice. Try to sledge-hammer C code (or some language-of-the-year) from a cross-compiler into an Apple II, and trip over all the I/O it needs to "know"? Or, work within the Apple II's BASIC, Sweet-16, and assembly-language calls (documented long ago) - in assembler (readily accessible) - and get something DONE? And learn something "old"? If you are worried about looking trivial - buy a Raspberry Pi and *guarantee* your results are trivial, just in a larger social group. Harumph, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Tarbell DD controller troubleshooting
by Richard Cini 07 Aug '17

07 Aug '17

All – Not sure if anyone has worked on these boards before, but I’m working on a Tarbell DD controller for a machine I’m restoring and it doesn’t respond to any manual communications with the board using the test routines in the manual. The simplest test is to write a value to the data port and read it back using a ROM monitor. I always get 0xFF back. Since it’s jumper-selectable for port ranges, I’ve tried both ranges. I didn’t know if this was a common failure mode, but I thought I’d first replace the buss interface chips – 8208 octal 3-state transceivers. Not sure if there is a known cross reference or replacement. If so, what is it? I also have a second Tarbell DD controller (a spare) which won’t allow the CPU to come out of reset. Not sure if that sounds familiar to anyone, but I thought I’d mention it in case it sounds familiar. Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

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The great CRT & printer disbursement
by Evan Koblentz 07 Aug '17

07 Aug '17

Today we set aside about 1/3rd of all our monitors and printers. We simply had too much. We focused on keeping computer-branded versions and historically significant aftermarket versions. We put aside mostly generic items and redundant branded items (we don't need six Apple Imagewriter IIs, for example.) The units that we put aside -- a whole pallet full of printers and maybe 15-20 monitors -- will all be available to members at the workshop next weekend. Items are yours for $10 each. All items are as-is and untested. Some are quite nice, we just have enough or don't need them.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!) (Jeffrey Jonas)
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Aug '17

07 Aug '17

Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic writes: >Adam Michlin had a lot to say. It's pretty much reasonable, plausible >stuff he has to say. But I have a few nagging comments. > >I don't care for his use of a distinction between "real" programmers >(his quotes), versus whatever-the-hell we do, we who post here, as less >than real. I see his point, I have a BSEE myself. But I don't care for >that ordering, or the choice of word. This is a discussion list about >vintage computers; modern work is second, that's the order. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/209/503496984_bc43812ff6_o.jpg >And I don't care to hear, what amounts to "assembly languages - learn >one, learn them all". And emulators, while free and convenient, aren't >quite the same as actual hardware sitting on your desk, or in a rack. > >He's welcome to his preferences and priorities of course. But then - if >he clearly favors one processor or architecture over another - why then >claim any assembly language is like all others? It is...but it isn't. > >I get his points, there was no insult intended. But it makes me cringe. >Like a Civil War re-enactor cringes, when visitors ask them about Web >sites, cell-phone reception, keeping cool in the summer, etc. > >About "reality". I spent my time last week, as follows. Disassembling >COSMAC 1802 code to restore source for an RCA monitor program. I looked >at and discussed, oddball Z80 and 8080 architectures, for programming to >SPI or I2C devices. I explained the repair of a 1979 S-100 bus backplane >and just scanned its manual last night. > >Please don't tell me, what I'm doing, isn't "real". That knowledge of >and experience with architectural features are arbitrary details, >readily learned, readily emulated. And don't do so, when some of these >differences matter to YOU. No insult to you, just consider the larger >contexts, as I've suggested. > > >keepin' it real retrotechnology.com > > >-- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA Good grief, please don't tell me there's another New Jersey; one's bad enough!.

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 06 Aug '17

06 Aug '17

Awesome day at the museum. There were a moderate amount of visitors. The big news is how much we accomplished in the warehouse. Me, Jeff B., Adam, Dean, and Drew all helped out. Jason Scott + girlfriend stopped by to donate a large amount of periodicals and shelving. By the end of the night, we all consolidated several shelving units and pallets into about 1/3rd less area. We worked on both the sorted and unsorted sides of the warehouse. We also put aside many monitors and printers which are not needed. See my next email...

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Who can scan old pictures quickly?
by Evan Koblentz 06 Aug '17

06 Aug '17

Everyone, I was sent a few dozen photographs -- real ones, not computer files -- of some of the original VCF events from the late 1990s. It would take me a long time to scan these using a conventional consumer-grade multifunction device. Who can scan them and get them back to us quickly? Not looking for anyone to post these: I'll handle that directly on the VCFed site. Just need digitization.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] original adm3a box
by william degnan 05 Aug '17

05 Aug '17

Come and get it contact me privately via my site Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Aug 3, 2017 10:39 PM, "Bob Aviles via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Bob Aviles <raviles132001(a)yahoo.com> > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 02:14:35 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] original adm3a box > Hi, > If you still have it? I will get it. > ThanksBobby > > On Wednesday, August 2, 2017, 8:19:23 PM EDT, william degnan via > vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> > wrote: > > I have the orig box for the Lear Siegler adm3a terminal...Will bring to > next workshop if there is interest. Very large with padding inside, cannot > be easily broken down. If you want to pick up, come and get it.. first > come first served > > b > >

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August 2017 Workshoppe Importante Info-mation
by Jeffrey Brace 05 Aug '17

05 Aug '17

We are going to have the workshop in 9032-A which is the bigger room near the main building, since we have people working on a decent amount of stuff. As a reminder the workshop is $10 per person, *per* day now. Sorry this InfoAge's rule and not our decision. If you have signed up, then you are guaranteed a table, otherwise you will always be downwind from Evan as he farts silently and deadly from eating too many pretzels. DATE: August 12 & 13, 2017 LOCATION: InfoAge Building 9032A - (2201 Marconi Road, Wall Township, NJ) TIME: Start about 10 A.M. on Saturday and ends whenever we go to sleep. End about 5 P.M. on Sunday. (Starts around 10 A.M. Sunday morning) SIGNUP: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16G0w7Z5y15B2uWh-NKIt mVnoJF-f3NIIFQDoEnUHx5A/edit?usp=sharing COST: - $10 per person, PER day. This is required by InfoAge for us to pay them. - $25 for those wanting to stay overnight. Please pay me when you get there so that I don't forget. Otherwise I will send my attack cat to find you. OVERNIGHT: Bring your own pillow, blankets, soap etc. We provide a bed frame and an uncovered mattress. There are showers and a kitchen for your use. - We will have PayPal credit card swipes available. Let me know ahead of time if you want to use this and I will set it up. EQUIPMENT: - VCF will provide a table and you can use any available electrical outlet. - Bring your own tools, power strips, power cords, and supplies etc. - Please bring an extra one or two power cords as these are often forgotten by people. DRINKS: You should bring your own. I would recommend bringing a cooler of some type. FOOD: You provide your own. We usually order pizza, subs or go out to a dinner and everyone pays their own way. Usually, we make a decision when everyone gets hungry. GATE: During the hours from 1 pm to 5 pm close the front gate behind you. We want museum visitors to go to the front lobby and not wander through the middle of the campus. Outside of those times, you can feel free to leave the gate open. PARKING: Park across from 9032 or 9010A on any blacktop area. InfoAge doesn't like us parking on the lawn anymore. QUESTIONS? Please ask me (Jeff Brace) or Evan. My cell is 732-759-1783 and Evan’s is 646-546-9999 in case you need to contact us. See everyone there! And have fun! -- ======================================================== Jeff Brace ========================================================

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Video of my Kfest lecture
by Evan Koblentz 04 Aug '17

04 Aug '17

Forgot if I posted this. Video taken by Jason Scott. https://archive.org/details/2017_Kfest_Lego_Programming_for_the_Apple_II_Ev… ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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OT: New York World Maker Faire Bus Trip
by Chris Fala 04 Aug '17

04 Aug '17

If you are interested in attending World Maker Faire but don’t want to drive into New York, here is an opportunity for you. My Makerspace, Make Lehigh Valley in Allentown, PA, is once again sponsoring a bus trip to World Maker Faire in New York on Saturday, September 23, 2017. It will be one day only, departing Allentown at 8:00am and returning that evening. We have chartered a full-size, commercial, air-conditioned bus (not a van or school bus!), so your comfort is assured. :-) Even if you don’t live in the Allentown area, it is worth a relaxing drive there to save the trouble of an aggravating drive into the city. For more information and to register, please visit https://www.eventbrite.com/e/world-maker-faire-2017-with-make-lehigh-valley… and share with all your friends. You can bundle your travel and admission, or select transportation only. Faire website: http://makerfaire.com/new-york/ Hope to see you there! Chris

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original adm3a box
by william degnan 03 Aug '17

03 Aug '17

I have the orig box for the Lear Siegler adm3a terminal...Will bring to next workshop if there is interest. Very large with padding inside, cannot be easily broken down. If you want to pick up, come and get it.. first come first served b

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TRS-80 Model IV on Long Island for decent $
by Douglas Crawford 03 Aug '17

03 Aug '17

https://longisland.craigslist.org/sys/d/radio-shack-trs-80-computer/6214426…

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semi OT: tiny Lego vintage computers
by Jeffrey Jonas 03 Aug '17

03 Aug '17

http://boingboing.net/2017/08/01/obsolete-technology-lego-kits.html Obsolete technology LEGO kits Chris McVeigh of Halifax, Nova Scotia builds all kinds of cool things with LEGO. Recently, he's been creating kits that showcase obsolete office technology. This particular kit, which he calls "My Old Desktop: DOS Edition 2.0," features a few reminders of the 1980s office, including a rotary-dial desk phone and a beige desk computer that can be partially fed one of the miniature 5.25" floppy disk replicas.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!) (Jeffrey Jonas)
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 03 Aug '17

03 Aug '17

Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic writes: >There's some irony in discussing the tedium of assembly language >programming, by using (excuse me) the tedium of emails as a learning and >describing tool. It's my bias, but the hardest way to learn something, >is by having several people explain it, post streams of details, argue >amongst each other in the process, get sidetracked, etc. I understand, >that's the 21st century way; no insult, it's just not my 20th century >way (or my textbook way, I was formally educated in computing). There was learning amidst all of misguided biases in this thread? I guess I missed it. :P

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Museum Report 2017-08-02 August 2, 2017
by Jeffrey Brace 02 Aug '17

02 Aug '17

About 3 dozen visitors today. Lots of families both big and small. From near (Lakewood) and far (California) as well as varying levels of interest. Definitely an uptick lately on the number of visitors. -- ======================================================== Jeff Brace ========================================================

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!) (Jeffrey Jonas)
by Mike Willegal 02 Aug '17

02 Aug '17

Programming in any language can be tedious, depending upon the task, tools and library of existing routines that you can draw from. Like Jeff says, if you have been coding a certain type of application in assembler, or any other language, for a while, you will eventually build up a library of routines that make life a lot less tedious. Regarding Jeff's comment about the Apple 1 monitor being clever, the most ingenious little monitor I’ve seen is the 256 byte Creed monitor for the 8008 that was published in volume 1, number 7, of the Micro-8 newsletter. Just like the Apple 1 monitor, it can read, write and execute a program in memory, but it also squeezed a boot loader. It did all that with the very difficult to program, 8008. The user interface implemented by the Creed monitor is very, very nice to use. Here is a link to a web page of mine, that has a port of the Creed Monitor to the SCELBI. http://www.willegal.net/scelbi/MCMON.html <http://www.willegal.net/scelbi/MCMON.html> regards, Mike Willegal

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Museum Report 2017-07-27 July 27, 2017
by Jeffrey Brace 02 Aug '17

02 Aug '17

Sorry for the late report. There were about 2 dozen visitors this past Sunday of varying interest. There has been an increase in visitors since InfoAge started a new marketing campaign. It is really working. Many times more than the normal amount of visitors. -- ======================================================== Jeff Brace ========================================================

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Museum is open despite street work at Infoage in August
by Jeffrey Brace 02 Aug '17

02 Aug '17

Despite the sewer pipe operation to replace the pipes on Marconi road, InfoAge is open. Our museum is open too. I will be here Wednesday Aug. 2 & 9, and probably for the rest of the Wednesdays in August. We are usually not open on Wednesdays, but I'm a school teacher, so I can be docent in the summer on Wednesdays. Anyway, be aware that the front entrance is open today. Next Wednesday you may have to use the back entrance. As the road work goes down the road you may have to use an alternate route to get to InfoAge on weekdays. I believe that this would be via Brighton Ave and Watson Road to go through the back way. Weekends should be fine. They don't work on the road on the weekends. -- ======================================================== Jeff Brace ========================================================

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Book review
by Evan Koblentz 02 Aug '17

02 Aug '17

"IEEE Annals of the History of Computing" is the top academic journal covering computer history. The current issue has a review of my book, "Abacus to smartphone: The evolution of mobile and portable computers". The reviewer was fair in observing what I did well and what I could have done better. She concluded that it's an "accessible read ... recommended for historians of all stripes or those with an interest in wide-ranging narratives of computer technology". That was exactly my goal when I started researching it more than a decade ago: to make the book accessible to the public yet also credible to professional historians. Goal achieved! Happy camper tonight. I emailed the journal editor to ask about their rules for quoting/reprinting -- I do not intend to break them. Nobody should take it upon themselves to host the PDF. IEEE members can read it here: https://www.computer.org/…/an/2017/02/man2017020009-abs.html ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!)
by Jeffrey Jonas 02 Aug '17

02 Aug '17

Not to fan the flames but I have experience and opinions on the subject: Glenn Roberts via vcf-midatlantic writes: >I hate to be the bearer of bad news but assembly language is probably >the most tedious of programming environments. VAXman: > That's not necessarily true. It depends upon the machine (CPU) > and its language (instructions, address modes, registers, conventions, etc.). Part of me wants to agree, having assembler programmed 8, 16, 32 bit machines. There's a deep satisfaction to optimizing a program with "green card" in hand (IBM 360 reference card - lists all instructions). But even I must concede that assembler programming the Z80 was dogmeat after having programmed IBM 360/370. Too few registers, weak instructions and other things that make assembler programmers happy. Even now, when considering microcontrollers, I look over the instruction set as some measure of goodness: is the architecture clean? Are the instructions flexible enough to do as much as possible in one cycle? But assembler programming is just the tip of the iceberg. There are programming "traditions" and conventions, particularly register usage, if you're to link to any libraries or supervisor calls. Assembler programmers depend a lot of macros and libraries to make their programming environment more pleasant. The joy of the IBM 1130 was seeing your program running on the front panel and understanding what it was doing on the lowest possible level! Lotsa libraries and shareware, even in the 70s. But that's all for CISC CPUs. RISC sapped out all the pleasure with too many details for humans to track: pipelining, delayed branch, instruction hazards, cache, etc. Concurrent Computer Corp converted from 360-like microcoded CPUs to the MIPS R3000. The internal courses were wonderful, covering all the aspects why RISC is the way to go, and all the trade-offs, particularly the need to rely on the compiler for optimization and bug fixes/workarounds. >Good assembly language programmers have libraries of frequently needed >routines (e.g. to print text or do = 16 bit manipulations). It helps a lot. The 68000 trainer I used for a lab course had a few functions in the ROM such as print character, print string. It sure accelerated my progress. But if there were no ROM, a simple workaround would've been to cut-and-paste just the functions I needed into the source file. Or learn the link-editor to link the main to libraries. > I/O routines, unless one is writing the I/O subsystem and device drivers, > should be part of the OS or, in lesser systems, ROM, Bios, etc. > Inventing the wheel everytime you want to roll is not very productive. Agreed. That's part of why 70s Development Boards were really USEFUL once ROMS/EPROMS were large enough to have some support. CP/M started the portable "BIOS" concept: a minimal set of foundation subroutines upon which everything else is built. I still marvel at how much functionality Woz squeezed into the Apple 1 with those TEENY ROMS (256 bytes?) -- jeff jonas

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GW-48T02-1 a Replacement for 48T02 RTC/NVRAM Batteries
by systems_glitch 01 Aug '17

01 Aug '17

All, I've got a pile of old Sun boxes I'm going through, dealing with dead NVRAMs of course. I ordered some ST 48T02 replacements from Mouser, only to find out they're not 100% compatible. So, since I was going to have to modify a whole bunch of old 48T02s, and there are space constraints on some of the systems, I designed a little module with a CR1225 and crystal to totally replace the CAPHAT on a 48T02. Here's the writeup: http://www.glitchwrks.com/2017/08/01/gw-48t02-1 I've got 100x on order, in panels of 10. If anyone is interested in some bare panels, assembled modules, or complete 48T02 replacements, let me know! I'll be doing other modules for the 48T08 and probably one to turn a DS12885 into a DS12887. Thanks, Jonathan

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Sym-1 craigslist
by william degnan 01 Aug '17

01 Aug '17

https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/sys/d/vintage-collectable-synertek/6228…

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LinApple
by Evan Koblentz 01 Aug '17

01 Aug '17

Anyone use LinApple? I'm using it on Linux Mint. It says to press F3 or F4 to load a disk image. But when I press either of those keys the program window closes. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: WTD Programmer with Experience in PDF Editing Programatically (Windows)
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 31 Jul '17

31 Jul '17

william degnan via vcf-midatlantic writes: >I am working on an application that edits PDF file text, I am tired of >banging my head on the desk ... so, I am looking for someone with >related experience who can help. > >In the simplest terms it's a business forms generator. The program >starts with a PDF template and then receives input from a web form. The >output is a copy of the PDF template with the form data, placed and >sized correctly. The file will be sent to the printer. > >Anyone done that before? The best I can do is replace text, but I can't >move it around. Yes I know editing PDFs is clunky, but *if you have >done this before* contact me if you're looking for a project. Postscript but not PDF. For the Postsript, the input collected was stored as|to a postscript variable. (eg. /Surname (the-input) def Then, the 'form' simply issued, at the appropriate place, a 'Surname show'. I'm pretty sure that the same approach would work with PDF.

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OT: WTD Programmer with Experience in PDF Editing Programatically (Windows)
by william degnan 31 Jul '17

31 Jul '17

I am working on an application that edits PDF file text, I am tired of banging my head on the desk ... so, I am looking for someone with related experience who can help. In the simplest terms it's a business forms generator. The program starts with a PDF template and then receives input from a web form. The output is a copy of the PDF template with the form data, placed and sized correctly. The file will be sent to the printer. Anyone done that before? The best I can do is replace text, but I can't move it around. Yes I know editing PDFs is clunky, but *if you have done this before* contact me if you're looking for a project. To reach me off list: my company site, degnanco.net --> click Contact. Bill

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$40 IBM 5150 in Parsippany
by Christian Liendo 31 Jul '17

31 Jul '17

I think this is a good deal. Hope it goes to a good home. https://newjersey.craigslist.org/sys/d/vintage-ibm-model/6242460762.html

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Woohoo!
by Duane 30 Jul '17

30 Jul '17

Evan, If there is any interest, Ill do a demonstration of my 1219 cross assembler at VCF ORG &O1000 ENTB TEXT_BUFF ; LOAD INDEX REGISTER WITH ADDRESS OF TEXT BUFFER RJP TYPEAS ; RETURN JUMP TO TYPE ASCII STRING ROUTINE STOP &O40 ; STOP PROGRAM >TEXT_BUFF AS HELLO WORLD FROM VCF ; BUILD ASCII BUFFER END ; PRODUCES: TEST.PRG ORG &O1000 001000 321003 ENTB TEXT_BUFF ; LOAD INDEX REGISTER WITH ADDRESS OF TEXT BUFFER 001001 761016 RJP TYPEAS ; RETURN JUMP TO TYPE ASCII STRING ROUTINE 001002 505640 STOP &O40 ; STOP PROGRAM TEXT_BUFF 001003 110105 AS HE HELLO WORLD FROM VCF 001004 114114 AS LL 001005 117040 AS O 001006 127117 AS WO 001007 122114 AS RL 001010 104040 AS D 001011 106122 AS FR 001012 117115 AS OM 001013 040126 AS V 001014 103106 AS CF 001015 440040 AS TYPEAS 001016 000000 DATA 0 ; TYPE OUT SUBROUTINE GOES HERE LABEL TABLE TEXT_BUFF 001003 TYPEAS 001016 The formatting got a screwed pasting into the email Its not pretty but it beats hand assembly. Duane -----Original Message----- From: Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2017 1:13 PM To: Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic Cc: Evan Koblentz Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Woohoo! > When you get more practice with this, > I would suggest using a 6502 cross-assembler Yup, that's the plan. > about printing Text on the screen, > There are many of these assemblers and cross-assemblers which have a > feature called Macro's > This is not specific to a computer platform, just the developer who wrote > the code for the assembler I understand what you're saying. However, as I learn, I want to be very careful to avoid confusing stuff that's part of Apple 6502 assembly vs. stuff that's part of any specific editor/assembler. I may not know the difference at first. > about what Mike said, definitely use comments I know.

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Woohoo!
by Evan Koblentz 30 Jul '17

30 Jul '17

Made my first assembly program just now. :) http://snarc.net/h.jpg I was nudged by Ragooman, inspired by attending Kfest, and grateful for the book "Apple Roots" (the previously recommended book "Assembly Lines" left my brain in a knot after 5 pages). I read chapters 1, 3, and 4 -- skipped chapter 2 about number systems because I already understand that well enough to fake it and it didn't seem pivotal to * jumping in and doing something *. I used ProDOS Assembly Tools which I downloaded from the Asimov site. (Adam convinced me to switch to a real program like Merlin soon.) Tried the sample program (ADDNRS) in chapters 3/4 and got it to work after Facebook user Katherine S. in the Apple II group noted that I was missing some spaces in the sample code. After that it assembled without errors. Our own list member Paul H. provided additional insight. Then, armed with sleep-deprived confidence, I went back and applied what I learned to the "HI" example in chapter 1. That worked too, so I looked up the number chart at the back of the book and changed it to HELLO WORLD. It worked but I had a typo in the output: it showed a hyphen instead of a space. That was a good thing because it forced me to download the manual and learn how to load and edit the listing. Corrected it and this time it showed HELLO WORL ... what happened to the D? Looked again and I'd forgotten the final $FDED to display what I LDA'd. Okay then! Now it works. I have absolutely no clue if this is the "correct" way to make a hello world in Apple II 6502 assembly. I understand there's probably a more efficient way to do it. But for now, I basically skimmed three of the first four chapters and wound up with this: 1 ORG $1000 2 LDA #200 3 JSR $FDED 4 LDA #197 5 JSR $FDED 6 LDA #204 7 JSR $FDED 8 LDA #204 9 JSR $FDED 10 LDA #207 11 JSR $FDED 12 LDA #160 13 JSR $FDED 14 LDA #215 15 JSR $FDED 16 LDA #207 17 JSR $FDED 18 LDA #210 19 JSR $FDED 20 LDA #204 21 JSR $FDED 22 LDA #196 23 JSR $FDED 24 RTS Efficient or not, it works! ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Woohoo!
by Evan Koblentz 30 Jul '17

30 Jul '17

This popped into my mind: what if you want to display a large amount of text? I assume there's some better way than loading each individual character. The book I'm reading may explain it in a later chapter, and maybe it's counterproductive for me to ask at this point! Not looking for a code example right now. But someone please assure me assembly isn't always * this tedious *.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Woohoo!
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 30 Jul '17

30 Jul '17

Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic writes: >Made my first assembly program just now. :) > >http://snarc.net/h.jpg Your code would be more interesting.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Woohoo!
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 30 Jul '17

30 Jul '17

Glenn Roberts via vcf-midatlantic writes: >I hate to be the bearer of bad news but assembly language is probably >the most tedious of programming environments. That's not necessarily true. It depends upon the machine (CPU) and its language (instructions, address modes, registers, conventions, etc.). >Good assembly language programmers have libraries of frequently needed >routines (e.g. to print text or do = 16 bit manipulations). Perhaps. >I have not programmed the Apple but on Heathkit machines there are many >such useful routines embedded in the machine's ROMs (I'm sure that's true >for Apple too). I/O routines, unless one is writing the I/O subsystem and device drivers, should be part of the OS or, in lesser systems, ROM, Bios, etc. Inventing the wheel everytime you want to roll is not very productive.

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Retrobrite instructions from the master
by Evan Koblentz 29 Jul '17

29 Jul '17

Javier Rivera is widely considered the master of Retrobrite. Here's a video (not mine) of him demonstrating the method at Kfest last week. DO try this at home. :) Be sure to FOLLOW THE DETAILS EXACTLY. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFGS9xaaO_M ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 29 Jul '17

29 Jul '17

Short and solid: lots of visitors today. Afterward I went into the warehouse and cleared one more pallet of random items. Martin dropped off parts for connecting the new motor-generator to the Univac.

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