- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Commodore 64 curb find, need power supply
by Jason Perkins 04 Jun '17

04 Jun '17

Thanks Alexander! That sounds ideal! -J On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:07 PM Alexander via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > Nice score! > > I believe I have a spare C64 PSU from a bricked machine that won't be > needing it. You are welcomed to it. > > You're over in Springfield, right? I'm not far away, if you want to stop > by the Merrifield area, it's yours at your convenience. > > -Alexander 'Z' Pierson > > Sent from my pocket telephone. > > Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > >Last week I was driving through my neighborhood and spied an electric lawn > >mower by the curb. When I walked back to nab it, by eye caught a Commodore > >logo on a box. I thought to myself "Surely there's not commodore equipment > >inside." Turns out it was a never opened MPS-801 dot matrix printer! > >Everything, even the original ribbon, was in its packing. > > > >Well, this warranted a closer look at the other curb items. Nearby was a > >long box lid, with 2 items in plastic bags. One bag contained 1541 drive, > >and the other an original style C64. Both with plastics in perfect > >condition! The C64 has an "A" revision motherboard. > > > >I've never had a C64, so I figure this is worth a play :) It didn't come > >with a power supply though. Does anyone have an extra they want to sell? > >I'm just outside DC if that makes a difference. > > > >Thanks! > > > >-- > >Jason Perkins > >313 355 0085 > -- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085 Sent from my iPhone

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List check. Please disregard.
by MailmanLists Support 03 Jun '17

03 Jun '17

22:48 AEST List check. Please disregard.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Warning: This thread involves game consoles
by jaj＠totallyamused.com 02 Jun '17

02 Jun '17

We were an Intellivision family, playing Sea Battle, whenever possible, with my brothers is a fond memory. Before it was trendy I collected video game systems, in college my roommate and I stayed up all hours of the night playing Videocart-09 Drag Race/Drag Strip on the Fairchild Channel F. We were both car guys, and the controller for that particular game was awesome. The system was dated but the concept of the game was spot on. My roommate passed away a few years ago -- I occasionally drag the system out and play and recall how fun it was to waste away hours on that game. As a tween to teen I loved the Commodore 64. Up N' Down, Dr J and Larry Bird Go 1-on-1, and Epyx Summer Games...and then the single player turn games of the early BBS days (Empire)... Great memories, no warning required for this post!! > My dad bought us kids the original Atari 2600, my first game console. I > preferred the planes over the tanks. Gen-X all the way. It is customary > to reply to a thread such as this.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Warning: This thread involves game consoles
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 02 Jun '17

02 Jun '17

Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: >On 06/02/2017 02:12 PM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >> My dad >bought us kids the original Atari 2600, my first game console. I >> >preferred the planes over the tanks. Gen-X all the way. It is >customary >> to reply to a thread such as this. > > Original Pong was my >first "console" in the mid 70s followed by Atari 2600 and intellivision >(5 kids in the family so one console didn't cut it!) > Apple II in 1978 >and it was more Apple II gaming than anything till the early 80s when >highschool and girls took precedence! > > BBS/AE line took over the >Apple II for years so it was mostly consoles for gaming and still is to >this day. > > My first game console was an Atari 2600. I bought it in 2013. I >haven't powered it up yet. Kudos!

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Warning: This thread involves game consoles
by william degnan 02 Jun '17

02 Jun '17

My dad bought us kids the original Atari 2600, my first game console. I preferred the planes over the tanks. Gen-X all the way. It is customary to reply to a thread such as this.

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Wifi232
by william degnan 02 Jun '17

02 Jun '17

Yesterday I got one of Paul Rickard ' s WIFI232 devices and I should say, Well Done! It's perfect for vintage computing. Plunk one on most any serial port and you're all set. Great documentation and features too. There is even a built-in wifi access server function. I tested on a vt240 last night to connect to telnet bbs and other telnet sites ATDT towel.blinkenlights.nl [enter] ATDT IP address of BBS Etc. http://biosrhythm.com/?page_id=1453 Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net

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Thinning out my collection
by Jonathan Gevaryahu 02 Jun '17

02 Jun '17

I'm planning to thin out my vintage computer collection, I've accumulated just too much stuff in recent years and need to clear space. Currently I'm trying to get rid of some non-vintage stuff which people may or may not have an interest in: I have three Lexmark Optra S 16xx/1855 printers; of the three, two work and one is a parts donor for the other two. I don't need any of them anymore. Between them they have two envelope feeder modules, a duplexer, as well as a 2-drawer 500 sheet input tray option. I also have a large pile of loose spare parts harvested from a fourth printer. These are basically free to a good home, pickup only from 19066. Contact me off list if interested. In the future, I have some other truly vintage computer stuff to disperse, including some IBM PS/2 stuff I don't need, and at least one old-world Beige PowerPC mac I don't need either, and several 486/pentium pc clones, but I need to assess that stuff further and clean personal info off the hard drives etc before those can be offered. -- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu(a)gmail.com jgevaryahu(a)hotmail.com

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COBOL
by Evan Koblentz 01 Jun '17

01 Jun '17

Relax: I don't intend to learn COBOL. :) Lots of tech reporters are writing stories about why COBOL is dead/obsolete. They're wrong. I am writing a story about COBOL's merits, roadmap, etc. -- already working on setting up some interviews with people in the ISO standards community, IBM, and so on. Here's a specific question for you guys. The page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compilers#COBOL_compilers lists lists nine COBOL compilers. Other than IBM and Gnu, which are the most common ones used in industry? (banks, federal agencies, etc.) ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] COBOL: vintage vs. legacy code
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 01 Jun '17

01 Jun '17

Bob Applegate <bob(a)corshamtech.com> writes: > On May 31, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Joseph S. Barrera III via vcf-midatlantic = <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: >=20 > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Brian Schenkenberger via = vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: >=20 >> I've been writing assembly for 40+ years and fully expect to be = writing it >> for another 10+. ;) >>=20 >=20 > Are you asserting that, say, VAX assembly and 6502 assembly are the = *same > language*? :-) Somehow I missed this comment. Funny you should mention VAX; it shows how out of touch you are with the VMS world. I have written my fair share and more of VAX assembly but I've written volumes of Alpha and Itanium too. I used to play on PDPs and the micro-computers (CP/M) in the physics lab in college writting assembly. One of my first year EE classes involved 6502 processors too. >Same concepts, even if the target processor is different. Pretty much. >FWIW, I was in a code review this week for a few hundred bytes of = >assembly code. The number of people fluent in assembly at the company = >is very small, but this product sells several hundred thousand units a = >year and is very important. The code was in C using a highly optimizing = >compiler but it couldn=E2=80=99t quite squeeze the code enough once a = >new feature was added, and going to a slightly larger processor with = >more RAM (32 bytes) was about four cents more per chip, so switching to = >assembly was the best approach. > >Not all computers have 2 TB disk and 32 GB RAM. When you need to save a = >few bytes, assembly is your friend. Yeah, like the specialized processors incorporated in to satellites which I coded for in my Astrospace days.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] COBOL: vintage vs. legacy code
by Jeffrey Jonas 31 May '17

31 May '17

My dad's happily retired for about 25 years now. Some of his COBOL IBM mainframe code is STILL IN PRODUCTION. Why? Because of the investment of untold man-YEARS of effort, debugging and diligence to yield nearly bullet-proof code. Because the code implements algorithms and logic that's no longer documented or understood by anyone else. Porting code introduces new bugs, thus IBM's captive audience with all the new mainframes ALWAYS being "backwards compatible". > It's not obsolete as long as it's *not* too much trouble to maintain. There's a whole wild and wacky world of backwards compatible retrofits to "legacy systems". Screen scraping interfaces new apps to programs that still think they're talking to 3270 "green screen" terminals. Dave McGuire: > Organizations are using it for a reason: > It's the right tool for their job, > based on whatever criteria they've set forth. FORTH? Did somebody say FORTH :-) Most of my dad's career was writing COBOL programs. I'll never have that stability in today's "language of the month" club: Perl, Python, Go, Ruby on Rails, Java and all its variants and environments, ADA (before it was a fruit), FORTRAN/RATFOR/WATFIV, ... -- Jeff Jonas

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Sphere 1
by Evan Koblentz 29 May '17

29 May '17

Sellam Ismail is looking to sell his Sphere 1 (missing CPU card) for $4K OBO. He's at sellam.ismail(a)gmail.com. It would be wonderful if someone could buy this and donate it to the VCFed museum. Someone offered to replicate the CPU card for us if that happens. Anyone can send me a PM here or email to evan(a)vcfed.org if you're interested in helping us. Please note that we are not looking for donations to buy the computer ourselves. We have a policy prohibiting artifact purchases regardless of the source of funds. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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testing ... ignore
by Evan Koblentz 29 May '17

29 May '17

________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Animated graphic needed
by Evan Koblentz 28 May '17

28 May '17

Some of our museum info kiosks, aka the cheapest Android tablets available, are showing signs of burn-in from the VCF logo screen saver. I don't know if this is literally old-fashioned "burn it" or some other technical issue. Quick search reveals un-burn apps that display many colors etc. to undo symptoms. Anyway, to prevent this from happening on all of our tablets, we should make a screensaver more elaborate than the current one (our "ectoplasm" logo on a black background). Please note that the screensaver is a web page with an image; the kiosk app requires this vs. loading an image directly. Can someone make a version of our logo that does things such as fade in/out, bounce around, spin, etc.? I don't think HTML5 video would work because some of the tablets use older Android 4.4. ------------------------- Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation A 501(c)3 educational non-profit Evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation

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Museum closed today
by Evan Koblentz 28 May '17

28 May '17

Our museum is closed today and will reopen next weekend.

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Animated graphic needed
by Jonathan Sturges 28 May '17

28 May '17

So my understanding was that real burn-in required a display technology dependent on phosphor, like CRTs or plasma, so I have long understood that LCD was immune to this. What would give some handheld LCDs persistence? And would a motion GIF be sufficient? I didn't bother to check but that HAS to be compatible with Android 4.4... -Jonathan Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 04:05:15 -0400 From: Evan Koblentz <evan(a)vcfed.org> To: Vcf <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Animated graphic needed Message-ID: <79e1380f-e3ca-4638-82b9-27bfd4ab66bd(a)vcfed.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > Some of our museum info kiosks, aka the cheapest Android tablets available, are showing signs of > burn-in from the VCF logo screen saver. > I don't know if this is literally old-fashioned "burn it" or some other technical issue.

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Radio Shack archives aution
by Evan Koblentz 28 May '17

28 May '17

Fyi: http://www.electronicdesign.com/communications/radio-shack-close-most-retai… ------------------------- Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation A 501(c)3 educational non-profit Evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation

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ADM-3A display problem
by Garrett Nievin 26 May '17

26 May '17

I'm restoring a Lear Siegler ADM-3A, and I'm not the most CRT-savvy guy around (but I did really enjoy Ian's excellent class at the most recent VCF-E). Attached is a photo of the issue. If I crank the brightness to clearly see the raster, I can see that the text is actually displaying as dark instead of bright. Pointers? Cheers, Garrett

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sun SparcStation 2, video frequencies
by Herb Johnson 26 May '17

26 May '17

Someone asked me, about connecting modern monitors to a SparcStation 2 with a CG6 8-bit color framebuffer. If you acutally have a VGA-type or LCD type *modern* monitor hooked up and running, please send me details. Now - I know plenty about video and scan rates and fixed frequency monitors. I don't need lessons in wiring up 13W3 connectors, sync-on-green. I know about sense-pins or "ID pins" which tell these video cards, "I'm monitor X, change your video to Y". OK? I'm not asking to be "schooled" on the subject. What I'm asking is what an electrical engineer would ask (that's me). What are the damn actual, real, video signals this card puts out? As in mode X: (sense pins grounded) horizontal frequency ? vertical frequency ? frame rate ? if you want, "video frequency in Megahertz" which isn't useful And yes, I searched the Web, and it was uninformative on "cold" searching. Active users of Sun may know where to go. Lots of links are dead, or under-informative, or lessons in video. My site has such lessons already! What I did find, are references to Sony monitors sold by Sun for use, which are GDM-1662 and GDM-1962. I got what I *think* are Sony's fixed frequencies of use. I did not get the magic "sense pins grounded" on those monitors. I'll not quote here what I learned on those monitors, you can send that along if you wish, that will confirm what I found. Here's a more general question, related of course. Otherwise - people who ask me about monitors for old computers, ask for a magic box. It's variously called "a converter" or "frame buffer" or "adapter". they think it magically changes video frequencies, even stores a frame of video! But most don't; the simplest just rewire 13W3's to hook to HD-15 connectors, with some toggles for the sense pins. some may play with sync signals. But...this is the year 2017, not 1997 or even 2007. There may WELL be "magic boxes" now, that have whole computers in them, that DO capture a frame and resend it. If anyone knows of one of THESE, which costs less than $100 - and it *works*, that matters for some reason - I'd like to know. IF it costs $250, that doesn't help - these are hobbyists asking, not video engineers. Thanks. Sorry for the long post, but I'm not looking for history lessons or video-signal lessons. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Virginia guys...
by William Sudbrink 26 May '17

26 May '17

Did any of the Virginia crew see this: https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/zip/6147194618.html There's a guy in Dale City emptying out a storage shed: I am a retired engineer and am in the process of moving back home (out of state) I am emptying a 12 X 22 garage storage shed of 50 years accumulation of hardware, tools, furniture, automotive parts-filters-accessories, electronic parts and accessories, Ham Radio parts and accessories and household items. All will be placed on the curb for free pick-up hour by hour until the shed is empty.( NO BROWSING IN SHED OR GARAGE) No saving or holding, first pick-up gets it some or all FODDER FOR FLEA MARKETS OR YARD SALES! --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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Results of Jason Scott collection rescue
by Evan Koblentz 26 May '17

26 May '17

Anthony S. and I took a Uhaul to Jason's house today and rescued most of his vintage computing collection. I'll never remember everything -- we filled the 9-foot cargo van three layers tall! Following are the highlights: - Large amount of common 8-bitters in mediocre condition. Half a dozen Apple ][ plus/e/c/GS/Laser; a few Vic/64 systems; one or two TRS-80; one or two TI-99/4A; etc. .... also some Sun systems and a pair of DEC Rainbows - Several DEC terminals in mediocre condition - A bunch of small tape drives etc. - Miscellaneous peripherals - Xerox-branded terminal that appears to be an ADM or similar - Commodore PET case with some other computer inside it (we didn't have a chance to open it but someone wrote "MM-1" in market on the back) - An awesome homemade videogame controller unit for a PC, might have to be installed in our workshop :) - NeXTstation and monitor, just like the one we got running in the museum a few weeks ago. Nice to have a backup! Funny story: we went an hour out of way to visit Sridhar and pick up something. We ended up visiting his father and picking up nothing, due to a fairly hilarious misunderstanding. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] COBOL
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 26 May '17

26 May '17

Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: >On 05/17/2017 07:33 PM, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > ..I >used cobol when I worked at dupont tso/JCL (Damn autocorrect) > > Cobol >is obsolete though. My professional opinion > > Your bank statement would disagree with you. > > Cobol is *out of fashion*. Obsolete doesn't mean quite the same >thing. I still have customers actively developing their application with COBOL. With extensions in the compiler, they make extensive use of VMS RMS ISAM files. I stil can't make head-or-tails of those damn PIC statements.

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ADM-3A display problem
by Herb Johnson 25 May '17

25 May '17

I own and have repaired some ADM-3A terminals, and I have electronics experience from the era. I did not see the posted image, from the VCF Web archive of messages. I just walked through the ADM-3A Maintenance Manual, which is on Web online archives. I did not see any "invert video" DIP switch setting. I did not see any description about how to invert video. And - at a glance - I did not see anything on the schematic on the logic board, which suggested a simple means to invert video. Of course I may have missed something; or my manual may not match the actual terminal. But I'm confirming the owner's impression that there's not likely a "toggle switch" in play. I'm afraid, the apparent inverted video, may be a real issue and not just some inadvertent setting. So: it's either a deliberate "mod" for purpose, or some logic failure. I doubt it's a monitor failure - that can be diagnosed, by using an oscilloscope to look at the incoming CRT monitor signal, to see if it is standard NTSC type video. This calls for technical experience and use of an oscilloscope. An oscilloscope will show actual signals. If there is a mod, jumper or failure, "walking through" with schematic and oscilloscope will find it. The logic board should be inspected for any wiring modifications. The board can be removed and decabled for such inspections. Be VERY CAREFUL because 1) various pieces of insulating "cardboard" are EXTREMELY fragile, 2) there's risk of shock from the 15,000 volts on the CRT - a charge that the "tube" retains after power-off, and 3) of course any physical issues from handing old electronics, boards, cabinets. Standard disclaimer: I'm not responsible for loss, injury or damage. Use any information I provide at your own risk. I may be wrong, confirm anything I've suggested. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Computing time in BASIC
by Evan Koblentz 25 May '17

25 May '17

Suppose I want an Applesoft (Microsoft) BASIC program to do something for a certain amount of time as measured in seconds or minutes. FOR-NEXT loops don't align to any real increment -- they just count based on how fast the processor can go, right? If so, then how do you make something happen for a time amount? ------------------------- Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation A 501(c)3 educational non-profit Evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation

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Film thing is resolved
by Evan Koblentz 25 May '17

25 May '17

Everyone, There was extensive discussion about the film issue on the private chapter admin list (me, Jeff B., Corey, Dean). We four jointly drafted a letter to IA management. Corey and I signed it. I met with IA management today and the matter is resolved. VCF is satisfied with the outcome. Please understand that I can't go into details, and that it would NOT help if any of our members post any further Facebook comments about it. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Commodore 64 curb find, need power supply
by Alexander 24 May '17

24 May '17

Nice score! I believe I have a spare C64 PSU from a bricked machine that won't be needing it. You are welcomed to it. You're over in Springfield, right? I'm not far away, if you want to stop by the Merrifield area, it's yours at your convenience. -Alexander 'Z' Pierson Sent from my pocket telephone. Jason Perkins via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: >Last week I was driving through my neighborhood and spied an electric lawn >mower by the curb. When I walked back to nab it, by eye caught a Commodore >logo on a box. I thought to myself "Surely there's not commodore equipment >inside." Turns out it was a never opened MPS-801 dot matrix printer! >Everything, even the original ribbon, was in its packing. > >Well, this warranted a closer look at the other curb items. Nearby was a >long box lid, with 2 items in plastic bags. One bag contained 1541 drive, >and the other an original style C64. Both with plastics in perfect >condition! The C64 has an "A" revision motherboard. > >I've never had a C64, so I figure this is worth a play :) It didn't come >with a power supply though. Does anyone have an extra they want to sell? >I'm just outside DC if that makes a difference. > >Thanks! > >-- >Jason Perkins >313 355 0085

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Commodore 64 curb find, need power supply
by Jason Perkins 24 May '17

24 May '17

Last week I was driving through my neighborhood and spied an electric lawn mower by the curb. When I walked back to nab it, by eye caught a Commodore logo on a box. I thought to myself "Surely there's not commodore equipment inside." Turns out it was a never opened MPS-801 dot matrix printer! Everything, even the original ribbon, was in its packing. Well, this warranted a closer look at the other curb items. Nearby was a long box lid, with 2 items in plastic bags. One bag contained 1541 drive, and the other an original style C64. Both with plastics in perfect condition! The C64 has an "A" revision motherboard. I've never had a C64, so I figure this is worth a play :) It didn't come with a power supply though. Does anyone have an extra they want to sell? I'm just outside DC if that makes a difference. Thanks! -- Jason Perkins 313 355 0085

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OT - electronics question
by william degnan 24 May '17

24 May '17

There is a "thing" that one can use to regulate LED voltages in a string, with a pretty large voltage/resistance variation. It's better than having a resistor at each light. What is this thing called?

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] COBOL
by Kenneth Seefried 24 May '17

24 May '17

Something I've noticed being overlooked whenever this topic comes up (what, several times a year): the industry *has* been trying to migrate off COBOL for as long as I've been in the game (30+ years). At one point, the "4GL" suites were going to let you capture all that business logic in a 'better' language. Most are all long forgotten and barely lamented. PowerBuilder, anyone? Then IBM decided the answer to COBOLness was, of all things, Smalltalk. They dumped all kinds of resources into retreading COBOL programmers into object-oriented quiche-eaters. A glorious experiment; I think pretty much the only legacy is Object COBOL and a lot of programmers that really, really hate the whole OO paradigm. Then about a decade ago I guess, Java was going to put the final stake in COBOLs heart. Jury still out there, I suppose. I do see a *lot* of business apps for conservative, disciplined, COBOL-esque IT shops being done in Java. Not sure they're replacements, tho. I've even heard of real projects to migrate COBOL to Ada (reasonable), Visual BASIC (icky) and C (kill it with fire). I'm sure over time all these 'alternatives' eroded away the *number* of COBOL apps in production; after all, if you've got some smallish, auxiliary app why not make it easier for more people to be competent to maintain. And there's an entire ecosystem of products that let you put a nice UI in front of what is on the back-end a block-oriented, 3270 terminal abstraction. All programmable in VB, Javascript, etc. What seems clear, however, is that little migration of business critical, high volume, high reliability transaction processing applications that are COBOL/Mainframe core competencies is being seriously undertaken. P.S. - If you're really interested in learning COBOL academically, take a peek at Columbus State University TSYS School of CS (https://goo.gl/0cx6qH) You can get a COBOL/Mainframe oriented certificate or BS degree. It's a joint venture of sorts between the University System of Georgia, IBM and TSYS, who is one of the largest credit card processors in the world. This is a tangible answer to "not enough new COBOL programmers". P.P.S. - I'm currently an IT executive at the 5th largest bank in the US. Yes we use COBOL. No, it's not going away any time soon. They're hiring, last I checked. KJ

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Computing time in BASIC
by william degnan 24 May '17

24 May '17

There was a whole industry in 8bit times selling clock cards with batteries. I have also seen replacement chips with clock/batteries on them. Not sure what specifically was used for your machine to accomplish this but that's one thing you can do, IF the clock writes to a memory location that BASIC can then access. Poor man's alternative, use a stopwatch and run the program. Have an on-screen counter running that shoes your program loop counter maybe a space bar to force a stop. Eventually you'll find the best method to accomplish. Help? Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On May 24, 2017 1:03 AM, "Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic" < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: Suppose I want an Applesoft (Microsoft) BASIC program to do something for a certain amount of time as measured in seconds or minutes. FOR-NEXT loops don't align to any real increment -- they just count based on how fast the processor can go, right? If so, then how do you make something happen for a time amount? ------------------------- Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation A 501(c)3 educational non-profit Evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation

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OT: What would you do with a 1Gbps connection to the internet?
by Joseph Oprysko 23 May '17

23 May '17

Just an interesting topic of conversation, since Verizon has the 960/880 connection, and Comcast is rolling out the 960/35 connections in the area. -- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?

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Exciting UNIVAC artifacts
by Evan Koblentz 23 May '17

23 May '17

Some of you may have heard that the Unisys Blue Bell (Penn.) Retirees Group recently closed due to lack of mission/membership. They donated all of their artifacts to VCF. The shipment will arrive soon. They said its contents include: - Digital and printed copies of their "Newsbits" newsletter from the mid-1980s to present, most issues are there - UNIVAC I programming guide (will pair nicely with the UNIVAC 1 technical guide they already donated a few years ago) - 50TH anniversary celebration book - CDs with interviews of Univac 1 workers - Ridge Ave. (their old factory) dedication book - Documents/photos "of the early days of Eckert-Mauchly Corp." ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] COBOL - HR hiring policies
by mike willegal 23 May '17

23 May '17

Certainly hiring is different from company to company, but my experience is different than what is portrayed in this thread. I have seen very little HR involvement in creating detailed job descriptions and requirements for new hires, other than making sure that the law is followed. In my experience, hiring managers set job requirements. regards, Mike Willegal

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Looking for a serial terminal
by Herb Johnson 22 May '17

22 May '17

> I'm interested in obtaining a RS-232 serial CRT terminal... Hint: when you want some physical thing, it always helps to say "I'm in [city, state, country]". Shipping, car travel, etc. I love it when I get such requests, and then find later the person is in Austraila. I'm in central New Jersey USA (see below). This actually happens to me. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Jason Scott rescue
by Evan Koblentz 22 May '17

22 May '17

Hey everyone. Jason Scott no longer needs the vast majority of his vintage computer collection. He's donating it to us for our museum and/or fundraising -- we'll make decisions when the collection gets to NJ. Who can help us rescue it? There are (at least) two full shelving units of hardware: https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/865598646120718337 This is located at his home in Hopewell Junction, NY. Contact me, not Jason. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] obsolescence of a language, was Re: COBOL
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 22 May '17

22 May '17

From: SMTP%"vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org" 22-MAY-2017 11:07:00.75 To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> CC: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> Subj: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] obsolescence of a language, was Re: COBOL Return-Path: vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org Received: from mailmanlists.network (192.34.61.247) by great-escape.tmesis.com (V5.7-ECO3, OpenVMS V8.4 Alpha); Mon, 22 May 2017 11:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.34.61.247] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mailmanlists.network (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412EF21372; Mon, 22 May 2017 11:06:28 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org; s=mail; t=1495465588; bh=mGaVWLEfX5XbSoUQ0Q2IZ4eF9ddjpjhL9B0c3tlzrRM=; h=To:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:List-Id:List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help:List-Subscribe:From:Reply-To:Cc: From; b=ItCSTX+0ziJNkfJ0cDjMqnIwA8TzJ8Cpcr/Mmjy59JG2mLFJ7HihGbzHtUWoOB5Wy nMDjQrPJyd3LOE/EYKziTL2MJQdic62LWE/TrDOJuI4WG9sNIqbBg++d+QtacoA03f n/K/b9uZJnZfcgye8cyqdXI1jZGT8uk+1RMSa4PY= X-Original-To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org Delivered-To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org Received: from mail.neurotica.com (mail.neurotica.com [50.73.179.3]) by mailmanlists.network (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B44B4211A9 for <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org>; Mon, 22 May 2017 11:06:26 -0400 (EDT) Authentication-Results: mailmanlists.network; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=neurotica.com header.i=(a)neurotica.com header.b=AbhDIWvn; dkim-atps=neutral Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.neurotica.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC14D95 for <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org>; Mon, 22 May 2017 11:06:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at neurotica.com Received: from mail.neurotica.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.neurotica.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 78N-94myGo8G for <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org>; Mon, 22 May 2017 11:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.15] (gw.neurotica.com [50.73.179.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mcguire(a)neurotica.com) by mail.neurotica.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AF924D94 for <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org>; Mon, 22 May 2017 11:06:24 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=neurotica.com; s=default; t=1495465584; bh=mGaVWLEfX5XbSoUQ0Q2IZ4eF9ddjpjhL9B0c3tlzrRM=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=AbhDIWvnsOC0AR9Ahe2Dl1pV/WXz6mdMoo2IH1rliZkcwtYs869a4V2braahHEycL OCt/tFPSTmIzRJqpkKKI/ErWDIJ0E+XI3jVuiWXjZ0ToRBm8SVhXvw8aHCpE+6lFCt fr4ARz0FnAM4e0KFh7LHWGjLDjJ/K/XSLQR7NsCg= To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> References: <17052211014274_23607106(a)tmesis.com> Message-ID: <6cf84d25-6e17-0532-07be-35b5b25f04b5(a)neurotica.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 11:06:23 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <17052211014274_23607106(a)tmesis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] obsolescence of a language, was Re: COBOL X-BeenThere: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic.lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org/mailman/options/vcf-midatlantic>, <mailto:vcf-midatlantic-request@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org/pipermail/vcf-midatlantic/> List-Post: <mailto:vcf-midatlantic@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> List-Help: <mailto:vcf-midatlantic-request@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org/mailman/listinfo/vcf-midatlantic>, <mailto:vcf-midatlantic-request@lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org?subject=subscribe> From: Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Reply-To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Cc: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> Errors-To: vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org Sender: "vcf-midatlantic" <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: >On 05/22/2017 11:01 AM, Brian Schenkenberger via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >>> I'm not sure I'd even say that. While COBOL generally makes me want >>> to vomit, and that's a common position, that's not the point. >>> Organizations are using it for a reason: It's the right tool for their >>> job, based on whatever criteria they've set forth. I really don't think >>> it's up to any of us to assert that they're wrong. >>> >>> But apart from that, what would be the motivation for declaring its >>> obsolescence? I assume the big deal is age. So, what's the cutoff age >>> for modern vs. "obsolete", when it comes to a language? Note that I'm >>> not talking about implementations of the language, but the language >>> itself, as the COBOL compilers in common use today are current, modern, >>> maintained products. C++ is 35 years old, C is 45, Java is about 20 I >>> think. All have seen recent standardization activity, and all have seen >>> recent development in implementations. Just like COBOL. >>> >>> I don't think there's much that's necessarily "new" or "old" about a >>> language for representing and expressing data structures and algorithms, >>> in cases where the language specification has continued to evolve. Yes, >>> newer techniques (object-oriented programming) and newer habits (long >>> identifier names, use of lowercase characters, column independence) come >>> into being, but these languages continue to evolve to take advantage of >>> them. Modern COBOL implements those newer things, specifically, along >>> with many others. >> >> Object Oriented COBOL. <ducks!> > > Yup. Terrifying, isn't it? The last time I found programming that >distasteful, I was writing x86 assembler. Really, computer programming >just doesn't have to be that bad! Writing PDP-11 assembler, by >comparison, is like listening to a symphony. ;) People who have never touched PDP or VAX assembly don't know what they're missing. 8080/x86 assembly, bleachk! If that is they're introduction to assembly language programming, I can understand their typical disdain. Now, if C only had Macros. ;)

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] obsolescence of a language, was Re: COBOL
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 22 May '17

22 May '17

Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: > > I'm not sure I'd even say that. While COBOL generally makes me want >to vomit, and that's a common position, that's not the point. >Organizations are using it for a reason: It's the right tool for their >job, based on whatever criteria they've set forth. I really don't think >it's up to any of us to assert that they're wrong. > > But apart from that, what would be the motivation for declaring its >obsolescence? I assume the big deal is age. So, what's the cutoff age >for modern vs. "obsolete", when it comes to a language? Note that I'm >not talking about implementations of the language, but the language >itself, as the COBOL compilers in common use today are current, modern, >maintained products. C++ is 35 years old, C is 45, Java is about 20 I >think. All have seen recent standardization activity, and all have seen >recent development in implementations. Just like COBOL. > > I don't think there's much that's necessarily "new" or "old" about a >language for representing and expressing data structures and algorithms, >in cases where the language specification has continued to evolve. Yes, >newer techniques (object-oriented programming) and newer habits (long >identifier names, use of lowercase characters, column independence) come >into being, but these languages continue to evolve to take advantage of >them. Modern COBOL implements those newer things, specifically, along >with many others. Object Oriented COBOL. <ducks!>

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Museum Report May 21, 2017
by Jeffrey Brace 21 May '17

21 May '17

Steve Anderson was at the museum as docent today. About a dozen visitors spread out throughout the day. One of the visitors used to be a programmer of an IBM 360. -- ======================================================== Jeff Brace ========================================================

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Museum report from yesterday
by Evan Koblentz 21 May '17

21 May '17

Extremely busy at the museum yesterday because of a veteran's event on campus. Constant stream of visitors from 11am to 6pm. We were supposed to close at 5 but I stayed because of all the people. Usual mixture of families/kids all the way to very technical people.

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Looking for a serial terminal
by Paul Rickards 21 May '17

21 May '17

Hi Folks, I'm interested in obtaining a RS-232 serial CRT terminal (mono, green or amber preferably). Something like a DEC VT or Wyse but brand not important. Contact me off-list. Cheers, -Paul Twitter: @paulrickards

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List phishing attack
by Evan Koblentz 18 May '17

18 May '17

I emailed the list provider and asked: >> Someone sent a phishing attack to our list. We didn't fall for it. :) We assume they got the addresses by mining our public archive. Is there a way to retain our public message archive but hide the addresses? They replied: >> I've edited your list's template for archived messages so that the sender's email address is no longer displayed at the top of the message. However, some of your members include their email address in their messages (typically in the footer of their message) - which we can't prevent.

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whoa
by Evan Koblentz 18 May '17

18 May '17

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Early-1977-Apple-II-Rev-0-Low-SN-A2S1-1144-w-white-… ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)(3) educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation instagram.com/vcfederation

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stumped...what is this keyboard enclosure for?
by Herb Johnson 18 May '17

18 May '17

> stumped...what is this keyboard enclosure for?... > claim it as worth saving historically. I sent Bill some private comments, in more detail. Briefly, I suggested it's an artifact typical of the 1970's or so, when individuals made one-off things for purposes of now-vintage computing. It's attractive visually and shows some craft and design, in my opinion. It likely represents a kind of activity at some point in time. But since it was made for one purpose, it's not unreasonable for Bill to reuse it for another purpose. (Some would dismiss it, for those same reasons.) So, he can preserve the artifact, or preserve the photo, and interpret either based on what he knows about it - his choices. Any significance would likely be happenstance. - Herb Johnson Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Re: Vol 19, Issue 17 Is This Thing On? (PA Workshop)
by SVCatITC＠aol.com 18 May '17

18 May '17

Yeah Bill I am interested. I get around your area at least 2-3 times a year with job travel. Have a customer in Avondale, up the road from you. Crossroads Diner, Wilmington is very good food AND a bar to boot. I'll start my VCF East '18 project. July would be better for me as I will be in the Midwest the latter half of June. Bill Inderrieden In a message dated 5/17/2017 12:05:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, vcf-midatlantic-request Bill Degnan writes: I'd like to host a workshop here (Landenberg, PA) some time this Summer. Not sure what date. Prob end of June early July. If anyone has interest let me know. Bill

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The Best Way To Transmit Satellite Data? In Trucks. Really
by Devin Heitmueller 18 May '17

18 May '17

I guess this is the modern equivalent to "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." https://www.wired.com/2017/05/best-way-transmit-satellite-data-trucks-reall… Devin -- Devin J. Heitmueller http://www.devinheitmueller.com

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stumped...what is this keyboard enclosure for?
by william degnan 18 May '17

18 May '17

stumped...what is this keyboard enclosure for? http://vintagecomputer.net/pictures/2017/Temple/Mystery_Keyboard_Enclosure.… The key pattern fits no computer I own, and I have a lot of keyboards <Hank Hill impression> I tell you what</Hank Hill impression> I plan to re-purpose it as a guitar pedal holder because it'd be perfect for that...but before I do please warn me otherwise or claim it as worth saving historically. Bill

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Entrex 480 on eBay
by AJ Palmgren 18 May '17

18 May '17

Just wondering if anyone here might know who bought this? I want to start aggregating and archiving info on this rare clone-of-a-clone system. I seem to have a propensity for this type of thing... http://www.ebay.com/itm/282462822861 -- Thanks, AJ Palmgren http://Entrex480.com

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Computer Graphics 101 Cartoon
by william degnan 17 May '17

17 May '17

http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=680 b

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August 2017 Workshop Date
by Jeffrey Brace 17 May '17

17 May '17

The August workshop will be 12 & 13. Sign up here: So far future Workshops are: *June 10 & 11 :* https://drive.google.com/open?id=13qn9xUYyZum3ZD8HV0HtYJ2NHfDsY8Tmdw8NQyIHS… *July 15 & 16 :* https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16G0w7Z5y15B2uWh-NKItmVnoJF-f3NIIFQD… *August 12 & 13 :* https://drive.google.com/open?id=13qn9xUYyZum3ZD8HV0HtYJ2NHfDsY8Tmdw8NQyIHS… -- Jeff Brace - ark72axow(a)gmail.com Sent from my Commodore 64 ========================================================

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August 2017 Workshop Date
by Blatboy 17 May '17

17 May '17

Greetings. The August link points to the June document methinks. :) w http://www.jwalterhawkes.com http://www.blatboy.com like to know where/when I'm playing? Click here <http://www.blatomaster.com/mlist.php> to sign up for my list, and let the babble begin.

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Anybody have an old mainframe lying around?
by Drew Notarnicola 17 May '17

17 May '17

I was working on laying out The Progress newspaper of Essex County NJ and found an interesting little tidbit. ;)

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