- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

william degnan via vcf-midatlantic writes: > BASIC is the universal language for >demos in a museum setting when you're just showing something that you >can execute in real time. ROTFLMAO!

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Web site calendar(s)
by Evan Koblentz 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

Jeff B. smacked me over the head with a pool noodle a few dozen times until I got around to putting calendar(s) on the VCFed web site. :) The main (Federation-wide) calendar is easy to find: go to www.vcfed.org and click where it says calendar on the top navigation bar. There's also a Mid-Atlantic chapter calendar which you can reach by mousing over to Groups - Mid-Atlantic - Calendar. ________________________________ Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)3 educational non-profit evan(a)vcfed.org (646) 546-9999 www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Lego LOGO hack
by Dan Roganti 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:19 PM, Dan Roganti <ragooman(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:07 PM, Dean Notarnicola <dnotarnicola(a)gmail.com > > wrote: > >> Dan, >> The .do disk is the main Logo environment, used to write and run Logo >> programs. This is what would need to be patched and therein is the rub. As >> we both discovered, ciderpress will not read the .do file because it is a >> custom format. I'm starting to suspect that it was developed with some sort >> of intermediate system similar to p-system. >> >> > ok, so there's another *.do disk image out there. > cause Ciderpress says it can read *.do images > so I thought it was still a Apple disk image > I just tried 2 more mirror sites for asimov.net like this one without any > luck > ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/programming/logo/ > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:22 PM, Dean Notarnicola <dnotarnicola(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I tried a couple of different versions myself, and I had someone create a > .do from an original disk. Despite the fact that it is a .do image (merely > a container file), the disk itself is a non-standard format that ciderpress > sees as corrupt :-( > > <ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/programming/logo/> >> > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:46 PM, Dan Roganti <ragooman(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I just tried reading this with AppleCommander, and it couldn't open that > either > but it mentions one of the possible reasons is the *.do image could be a > protected disk > Is there another Viewer or Reader for Protected disks ? > Dan > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:50 PM, Dean Notarnicola <dnotarnicola(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I considered that, but I am able to boot the .do file into an A][ > emulator, so I would think that this would indicate the absence of copy > protection. > > oh man, I didn't even try to load it yet into the emulator I just tried it on AppleWin and it loads fine !! I used each ][+, ][e and Enhanced ][e LinApple is supposed to be a port of AppleWin, so it should work there too I get the splash screen and then pressed enter to get to the main screen So it must be a Protected disk, right ? But I think I forgot how to load Dos into the original ][ mode After it boots up into the Monitor, I switch to Basic, and at the prompt, I tried PR#6 at the Basic prompt, but I get a "Error #6" So the Dos didn't load, it's the same Master.dsk used for ][+, ][e, etc But which emulator did you use again ? Dan

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Assembler, continued
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 18 Jan '17

18 Jan '17

William Dudley via vcf-midatlantic writes: >IMHO, the difficult bit with assembly language is that you have to keep >track of all the "book keeping" needed by your algorithm. If you need >10 variables, and array of 100 integers, and pointers to subroutines, >then you have to keep track of all this stuff yourself. This means that >you have to start planning on paper long before you write your first >opcode. Of course, it also means that you have to be familiar with the >machine architecture, how many registers it has, how much stack, etc, so >that you can figure out WHERE you are going to store all the stuff you >need. First, that's one of the reasons that assemblers accept human assigned names for routines and fixed data location -- so you don't have to keep track of a routine or data pointer. Local data? Carve up the stack. Arrays? Machines with indexing make this much simpler that those without. If you really want a challenge, try writting assembly on a machine that doesn't possess branch instructions and executes multiple operations at one time! ;)

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Washington, D.C.
by Cayea, Daniel 18 Jan '17

18 Jan '17

If anyone is going to be around the D.C. area over the next couple of days for whatever reason and would like to meet over coffee, feel free to e-mail me at dcayea(a)lyonmountain.com

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Washington, D.C.
by Alexander 18 Jan '17

18 Jan '17

Depending on the time, I will probably be free on one of those days for something. I'm near Tyson's more or less. -Alexander 'Z' Pierson Sent from my pocket telephone. "J. Alexander Jacocks via vcf-midatlantic" <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: >I'm also in the DC area, and will be in Tyson's Corner, tomorrow, and could >probably meet. > >- Alex > >On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Ethan via vcf-midatlantic < >vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > >> If anyone is going to be around the D.C. area over the next couple of days >>> for whatever reason and would like to meet over coffee, feel free to >>> e-mail >>> me at dcayea(a)lyonmountain.com >>> >> >> I'm in Northern VA. I know there is a few others on here (though haven't >> met them face to face.) Are you in the city or suburbs? Any NoVA people >> want to meet up in the evening Thur/Fri ? >> >> - Ethan O >> >> >>

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For all you Amazon Shoppers...
by Joseph Oprysko 18 Jan '17

18 Jan '17

Amazon has philanthropy program (where they donate money to NPO's). If you do your shopping at smile.amazon.com and select Vintage Computer Federation, you can have Amazon donate 0.5% of qualifying purchases to provide money to our favorite charity, and support our hobby at the same time. This has been a public service announcement. -- Normal Person: Hey, it seems that you know a lot. Geek: To be honest, it's due to all the surfing I do. Normal Person: So you go surfing? Normal Person: But I don't think that has anything to do with knowing a lot... Geek: I think that's wrong on a fundamental level. Normal Person: Huh? Huh? What?

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Assembler, continued
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 18 Jan '17

18 Jan '17

Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic writes: >> I decided to try to cookbook series. Getting it now... > >Page 19: "So many assembler books and courses omit this essential first >step! An assembler is simply too powerful a tool to start off with. You >must first know what op codes are and how they are used. You must >thoroughly understand addressing modes and the different ways you show >which addressing mode is in use." You should have attend my assembly lecture first VCF University. Your loss.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked th e wrong question...
by Kenneth Seefried 17 Jan '17

17 Jan '17

From: Evan Koblentz <evan(a)snarc.net> > Was it normal to go from BASIC directly to assembly (is BASIC enough preparation), > or were people better off getting some in-between experience with a language such > as Pascal or something else? > As with most things, that depends. One runs into the limits of BASIC pretty quickly. In the world I was in back in those days (mostly 808x/Z-80/TRS-80/CP/M), people seemed to pretty quickly bifurcate from BASIC to either assembly or (usually Turbo) Pascal. I was in the later category, FWIW. Other than figuring out Z-80 asm well enough to cobble together custom CP/M BDOS and other components, I lived in Turbo Pascal. But then, it was dirt cheap. If it was more expensive (see: Pascal/MT), I might have been on a different path. KJ

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by Mike Willegal 17 Jan '17

17 Jan '17

I recommend reading MOS's original 6500 series programming manual. It's done in the form of a very well written tutorial. http://archive.6502.org/datasheets/synertek_programming_manual.pdf regards, Mike Willegal

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OT: PHP HTTP POST setBasicAuth question.
by william degnan 17 Jan '17

17 Jan '17

Anyone here a PHP expert? I am banging my head against the desk here... I have the following code but for some reason it kind of seems like the username and password are not actually being sent. Does anyone here have the ability to receive an http post that I can send to confirm whether you're actually getting an attempted username and passowrd along with an XML document? Here is a code snippet working with: $r = new HTTP_Request($dest_url) or die("$dest_url: $php_errormsg"); $r->setMethod(HTTP_REQUEST_METHOD_POST); $r->addHeader('Content-Type', 'text/xml'); $r->setBasicAuth($username, $password); $r->addRawPostData($packet); $res = $r->sendRequest() or die("sendRequest:". $php_errormsg); I keep getting a 401 (Access Denied) error. No PHP errors. I can send debug output, etc. not posted here. This is a Windows PHP instance, PHP Version 5.4.31 Windows 2008 Server. Of course I am assuming I have the right username and password, but could there be logic error? I am posting to a major B2B portal, but it may be possible that multiple attempts have shut me down. I need to know if my code is correctly posting a username and password before I complain to them to fix their end. Thanks anyone.. Bill

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For those who liked the mini computers
by Christian Liendo 17 Jan '17

17 Jan '17

If you like legos and vintage computers https://powerpig.ecwid.com/#!/Technology/c/15326690/offset=0&sort=normal

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time for me to learn assembly
by Evan Koblentz 17 Jan '17

17 Jan '17

Hey everyone. Trying to teach myself Apple II assembly. I have NO experience at this. All I ever learned was LOGO in elementary school and AppleSoft (Microsoft) BASIC in middle school. (I'm not counting a very small amount of LISP in college and mastery of HTML 4 which isn't programming.) Everyone said to get the book Assembly Lines. I got the PDF of the original version. Hit a glitch almost immediately. After doing CALL -151 to enter the monitor, it says to type F666G to enter the mini-assembler, and then "The prompt should change to an exclamation mark." It doesn't change to an exclamation mark. It just goes back to the asterisk. What's happening? Same behavior in LinApple (Linux Apple II emulator) as on my Platinum.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 17 Jan '17

17 Jan '17

Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: >{...snip...} >> Keep in mind that my natural aptitude is liberal arts, not math. :) > > Well one mistake certainly might be thinking it has something to do >with math. ;) Counting bytes... that's math! :P

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Pocket CHIP simH
by Brian L. Stuart 15 Jan '17

15 Jan '17

On Sun, 1/15/17, william degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > I'm right there with you on that. Now that I've gotten it reloaded > > after it shat all over its SD card, I'm running mine 24/7. It sits > > there next to my desk (currently) in the OS/8 console I/O polling > > loop, projecting waves of comfort toward me as I get stressed out > > putting out the fires caused by other peoples' incompetence. > > I have my PiDP on the mantle above the fireplace running a slow deeper > thought in 777 mode. All this discussion inspired me to do a little with the PocketCHIP I got for Christmas. In addition to simh, I also got Inferno running on it and just for fun, here are a couple of pics of it running my ENIAC simulator. http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/eniac/chip1s.jpg http://cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/eniac/chip2s.jpg BLS

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Pocket CHIP simH
by william degnan 15 Jan '17

15 Jan '17

> > Just finished a headless CHIP that's attached to a VT220. It's networked wirelessly, I can grab via CRON job the lpt.txt output file every 10 minutes to send "mail" from the simulator that way. > > Took 2 hours to MAKE them all. Posted more how to on my site ...so now I have three Pis and two CHIPS with simH installed.

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Pocket CHIP simH
by william degnan 15 Jan '17

15 Jan '17

Anyone interested, I have been working on a standardized way to put simH on things, such as the Pocket CHIP. This is useful, you can make a serial connection to this or the Raspberry Pi and attach a termina on the other end. It's a safe way to demo ancient operating systems if your actual hardware is not quite ready for a full weekend of exhibiting, or you don't have peripherals. Obvious to many but some may find it useful to get into simH. Here is 101 on what I have been doing. My Linux skills are getting better, I use it daily now whereas a few years ago I was a lot more tentative with it. http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=664

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Breakfast tomorrow AM
by Evan Koblentz 15 Jan '17

15 Jan '17

For anyone coming to the workshop tomorrow: we're meeting at 9am at the Princess Maria Diner (rt. 35 in Wall). We should be back to the museum around 10:30.

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This is awesome! 3D printed "mini" vintage computers
by Evan Koblentz 14 Jan '17

14 Jan '17

https://www.etsy.com/shop/RabbitEngineering/items

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Computer Jokes....Re: What are you working on for The next great workshop is Jan 14 & 15
by Dan Roganti 14 Jan '17

14 Jan '17

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jan 2017, Blatboy via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > > Thanks Evan. After I wrote that whole thing... even I can see it's too >> much. I'll probably stick with the first two ideas, and I'll be happy if >> I >> complete one. I was planning on leaving a good bit of the gear in the car >> unless I needed it. Even that seems awesomely gluttonous to me. I can't >> ever leave anything in a car in NYC haha. >> > > > > A musician friend of mine was in NYC last week, and left his banjo on the > back seat. On the way back to his car, he noticed that the rear window was > broken. Fearing the worst, he rushed back to the car to discover two more > banjos on the back seat. > > (cue rimshot) > > > since I grew up there, I seem to recall there was a version of a computer joke like this I think it went something like this, but don't hold me to it :) I'm sure there are other jokes similar to this " A friend of mine went to the computer show with me while in NYC last week. He left his TRS-80 model I on the back seat. After the show, he noticed somebody broke into his car 'cause the the rear window was broken. Being so afraid, he ran back to the car only to find a TRS80 Model II and model III also on the back seat." :) Dan

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Workshop is on! For tomorrow 1/14 & Sunday 1/15, 2017
by Jeffrey Brace 14 Jan '17

14 Jan '17

I checked the weather report and it seems that the snow will be light and it will be in the evening around 5pm Saturday. So we *will* have the workshop as scheduled. I am only checking the weather in my area, so I don't know what it will be like outside the InfoAge area. Since weather patterns are always subject to change suddenly and unpredictably I request that everyone please use your own best judgment when driving here. Please be safe. No workshop is worth driving in bad weather. Looks like we will have a good turnout for this workshop. I look forward to everyone getting stuff fixed! :) Also, the new PayPal card reader device that VCF just bought will do chip cards, credit cards and apple pay. -- Jeff Brace - ark72axow(a)gmail.com

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Tools at workshop
by David Gesswein 14 Jan '17

14 Jan '17

If I remember correctly the museum has good soldering and desoldering tools. Do those get moved to the workshop or should I still bring my own? I will only need them occasionally when I find a dead component. Bad weather here will start before I leave so if it looks too bad in the morning I will cancel. Looks better for people farther north.

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Workshop is on! For tomorrow 1/14 & Sunday 1/15, 2017
by Herb Johnson 14 Jan '17

14 Jan '17

My weather considerations, are from Mercer County NJ, the junction of I-95 NJ/PA and I-195 which goes west to InfoAge an hour away. My read of the weather, is that the snow will come up from the south and west from early afternoon to mid-evening, possibly overlap I-195. It will "likely" be cleared or dissipate from the road by either late Saturday evening, or early Sunday morning. Therefore, I plan to travel I-195 late Sat morning, and be prepared to stay over Saturday night, if I can't travel back and forth again between Saturday night and Sunday morning. Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Museum report
by Evan Koblentz 14 Jan '17

14 Jan '17

Tony and I worked in the museum from 10:00am-12:30pm today. We installed four long bookshelves along one of the workshop area walls. Bob F. got here at 6:30pm and we worked until 11:30pm. We stocked the new bookshelves and did some other rearranging in that area. As for what happened between 12:30pm and 6:30pm, I honestly don't remember! Pretty sure I went to lunch, had a conversation with Fred, lingered around the museum, and somehow passed several hours! Going to sleep now. The museum workshop is a mess. I'll deal with that tomorrow.

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What types of VCF exhibits do you like......Re: Advice on Xenix VCF exhibit
by Herb Johnson 13 Jan '17

13 Jan '17

..one of several thread on VCF exhibit design. Dan Roganti ragooman said: > thought I'd alter the subject just in case the thread police is looking :) Well, *I'm* looking. As I've said before: on-subject threads are in my interest, because I look for content from decades-old email discussions, and the subject-titles matter to me. Putting that aside... Dan talked about displaying uses of early microcomputers (and minicomputers) in labs and industrial settings. That rings true to me as well. 45 years ago, I was working in those settings, as a digital engineer. There are many other programmers and engineers of my age group, who visit VCF-E and who contribute to modern vintage computing. And, to the VCF's collection. So it's an important audience - see my recent post in a similar thread on Xenix exhibit discussion for what I mean by "audience". So I'm all for Dan's exhibits of minicomputer and early microcomputer use by scientists, engineers, and in industry. For that matter, early accounting machines and programs would be of the same order. Let's keep in mind: the first generation of microcomputer owner-developers, were often techies like these. Not all, but many. I think there's good news, and bad news, about such exhibits. Research papers and university theses from that era and older, are more available on the Web today than ever. University and govt. libraries have digitized their holdings and cataloged them. So a Web search will find them - whereas, years and decades ago, this was exceptional. So the content of such work, sometimes including coding, is available online. But numeric code doesn't exhibit well. Lots of these programs were essentially mathematical in nature. Numbers in, numbers out. Interpreting them was done by humans; there wasn't enough CPU power to waste with graphs and charts, that came later. So did graphic displays, for the most part. This stuff in the original, will be hard to exhibit. Also: the science content will be hard to represent, to most people including the younger crowd (under 30) and to the non-science non-math crowd. But I would not mind seeing, some hard-science stuff at VCF-East. And I think there's an audience for it, to warrant an exhibit or two. And consider this - demonstrating an ANALOG computer is an exercise in pure math, differential equations to be exact. VCF Inc. intends to restore such computers in the near future. So this is "in the cards". But, while it's good to say "here's some atomic reaction codes", explaining the physics or math would be very challenging and take up the viewer's time. That suggests to me the use of a Web page, not an exhibit. And so the practical question becomes this: What do you do with a physical exhibit of period hardware about period users, but on display in the 21st century to people who can't interpret that use, much less the time available to them? One possible answer might be - thinking out loud - is that you use modern computing (or faster vintage computers) to show some of the results. You could do worse than use simple video display hardware, to represent your results, produce some graphics. Or audio output, that's a useful mode of presentation. This will call for some thinking and imagination, and planning. Now, later vintage computing - HP desktop computers and calculators - WERE able to produce graphical results. But are they pretty pictures - which I can make with an oscilloscope and some simple circuits - or are they pictures that have some meaning? Dan also suggests texts from the period, about use of digital technology and lab instruments, to conduct experiments and do real-time data reduction. That resonates with me, Dan: my LINCtape drive reminds me, that the design-purpose of the LINCs was to automate biological-science experiments and tests, to bring computing power to those sciences, *in the 1960's*. DEC borrowed a lot from the LINCs, into their early minicomputers. David Gesswein has brought in some PDP-8 lab-class systems at other VCF-East's. I've got some HP and Heathkit products along those lines, myself. Some of the Heath lab products were developed in Princeton if I recall, that's a local connection. But the challenge is this: either accept a narrow target audience, or to enhance the real-time experience so that mere mortals can appreciate it on exhibit. Herb Johnson my 25 cents'

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Question from another list, Video Editing and the C-64
by Matt Patoray 13 Jan '17

13 Jan '17

I had a question come through my OLD VTR's list that i do not know a definitive answer to, so i figured i would ask here. "Was the Commodore 64 ever used for video editing like the Amiga Was" Of course I know that the Amiga with a VideoToaster and its video switching and generation capability is NOT going to happen with a C-64 but, what about something with just simple machine control running the VTR/VCR through either an IR signal or conversion of the commodore's RS-232 serial into RS-422? Looking for something commercial or an easy to build project form the C-64's heyday. -- Matt Patoray Owner, MSP Productions KD8AMG

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forward: What types of VCF exhibits do you like......Re: Advice on Xenix VCF exhibit
by Herb Johnson 13 Jan '17

13 Jan '17

Dan Roganti suggests a physics demonstration tool like http://powdertoy.co.uk/ might be connected to a vintage computing demostration, to provide "physics" results from vintage computations or vintage control. That sounds plausible to me. It satisfies Dan's goals of presenting early computing means to generate mathematical solutions on critical problems of the day. And it satisfies visual presentation goals of making those cryptic numeric and physics code, accessible to people without that training. For my techie interests, I'd be curious about how to make the two work together. A modern computing box or tablet, running this program with a Lua API – whatever that is - connected to some vintage box through likely-simple serial-hardware protocols? Can they live together? It's "the odd couple"! ;) Herb

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FS: Wire Wrap S-100 Protoboards, You Depopulate
by Systems Glitch 13 Jan '17

13 Jan '17

Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/Y5IcG These boards came from a piece of scientific gear I picked up in an equipment lot at a local auction. Turns out the chassis is almost S-100! The cards are exactly the same size (one picture shows a card inserted in the card guides in my Altair 8800B), have the power supply rails in the right places, and use the right connector. The chassis they were in was a 22-slot OEM chassis with a linear supply, but there was no CPU board; instead, everything was controlled through a GPIB interface board. These cards are very high quality FR4 boards with hard gold plated edge connectors. Interesting design -- I don't know if the card was too complex for a two-layer board or what, but they laid out a bunch of IC footprints, then staked wire wrap sockets in at each pad. Wire wrap pins are fully gold plated. Pictures provide a better explanation. All boards have regulator + heatsink, two card ejectors, several tabs on the top edge for connectors, and a mix of 14, 16, 20, and 24 pin DIPs. The boards are as-removed, so you'll be unwrapping a bunch of connections to use them. DIPs are mostly a mix of 74HCT random logic, with a bunch of LS7061 32 bit/dual 16 bit counters (PDF datasheet available online). Price as follows: Board as-is with all chips: $40 USD I keep the chips: $30 USD IDC connectors for top tabs: $1 each, snipped off, will come with a bit of cable Shipping: $15 USD in the US, will ship international but I'll need your address for a price I have eight of these. Thanks, Jonathan

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Tomorrow evening
by Evan Koblentz 13 Jan '17

13 Jan '17

Tony is helping me in the museum from 10:00-12:30 tomorrow, and then I'll spend a few hours sorting books/magazines/etc. on our new shelves, but I haven't got squat to do in the evening (staying over rather than making an extra round-trip). Anybody want to arrive tomorrow night and hang out, or do warehouse work with me, etc.?

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VCFed fiscal year '16 report
by Evan Koblentz 13 Jan '17

13 Jan '17

Today we posted financial information from our first full fiscal year. http://vcfed.org/wp/financial-information/ Remember, this report is for the whole national Federation.

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PDP stuff from Omni?
by Evan Koblentz 12 Jan '17

12 Jan '17

Anyone have experience working with this company? http://omnicorp.net/dec.htm

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Advice on Xenix VCF exhibit
by Herb Johnson 12 Jan '17

12 Jan '17

There's a few threads now, about VCF exhibit design. I may post the same basic message in a couple of them, but point to this one for details. It's pretty long, but I'm saying: my friends here are thinking-through their exhibits, and who will be attracted to them. I suggest being more deliberate. David Gesswein posted some of his deliberations; I'm posting what I did last year, in cooperation with others, by luck and intention. A Xenix exhibit by content, may be limited to certain interests; don't be shy about that, but ask for suggestions otherwise. Keywords: intention, process, discussion. ----------------------------- To put it simply: different exhibit designs, will attract different audiences of "people". Which "people" are you intending to attract? Be specific about your audience; and what you expect out of them. And then the discussion can be about the exhibit design, or the content, or some strategies and gimmicks, for the intended result from the specific audience. "Intention" is a key word. I think the discussion would be better directed, to a notion of intentionally attracting specific groups and therefore naming and categorizing such groups. An exhibitor can either decide on a group and create an exhibit to attract them; or more likely have an idea for an exhibit and try to tailor the exhibit toward some group, or recognize which group is more likely to be interested. Then others can discuss the merits of any of those considerations. I observe that the notion of an exhibit, is moving from "this interests me, this is something I've done, I'm gonna show my work or interest"; to a desire to have some impact on some group (not "people", sorry) about some product or concept. If you wanna have an impact - attention, interest, etc. - you are obliged to identify *who*. Then you can figure out their interests; then you can figure out how your exhibit's content can attract them (or not). YOu can work that forwards, or backwards. "My Xenix word-processing exhibit which is my interest, won't attract teenagers who want gaming. That's fine, I'm focused on people who did word processing in the 1980's or earlier". Even so, having some text-based game program around, would not be a bad idea. David Gesswein's post, described his process for his recent exhibit designs; and also specific strategies for drawing interest. He didn't specify audiences but they were implied. David uses fewer words, better, than I. I don't/didn't plan to exhibit this year. But I'm impressed that this kind of discussion is going on. It's very thoughtful. Here's my thoughts about what I exhibited last year. --------------------- Last year, I chose to show a relatively impressive S-100 system - the Ithaca Intersystem DPS-1, two of 'em. To me, the amazing thing was to make them work! So my exhibit (and Web pages) were about that process of repair and diagnosis. For many people that's the hardest part; for some like me it's the most fun. http://www.retrotechnology.com/restore/ith_feb16_repairs.html http://www.retrotechnology.com/vcfe11/vcfe_11.html Target audience? Probably "hardware" people over 40, plus people doing repair of S-100 stuff. "Impact" strategies? Lots of blinkin' lights, I included a Jade Bus Probe (look it up), and the Ithaca front panel is the best IEEE-696 toggle front panel ever made. And they booted CP/M - check how many DPS-1's described on the Web, aren't working. I displayed one-page flyers with bullet points, Web links. "Concept?" - show a good working S-100 system, support other S-100 exhibitors, I called that out beforehand. Bill Sudbrink showed working IMSAI and Altair and Cromemco early video products. A few other folks had S-100 systems, or sold S-100 in the Dealer's area. John Chapman gave a good talk on S-100 repair, I supported him with good questions, comments. We and other people did active repairs at John's exhibit, very nuts-and-bolts S-100 boards and meters and a hot soldering iron. But other audiences? Under-25, non-techies - they saw my "ugly boxes of big boards", yawn. John had tools, chips and cards on his table - that's interesting to tinkerers young and old. Collectively, we "represented" S-100. That was my prime objective. Hard for me to see how that could be topped, this year. ------------------ In general and to the topic: I think one emphasis for an Xenix exhibit, would be word processing and coding. Both use text tools, printers, formatting. Lots of keyboard time. In the early 1980's, "word processing" for home and small business was ground-breaking. There were still jobs for secretaries and documentation-writing and production. Not to mention, C programmers writing for Xenix, Unix, and of course those micro-computers. I'm sorry if that's boring for 20-somethings and younger. But their parents and grandparents DID this kind of work - or designed the software and hardware for it - and they too will be visiting VCF-East, so they are a target demographic. How to make this interesting for teens? - that's a considerable challenge that may only be met by other exhibits. But I dunno, someone may have an idea..... Herb Johnson retrotechnology.com

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Size of mattress during Workshop overnight
by Jeffrey Brace 12 Jan '17

12 Jan '17

Twin XL is the size for those staying overnight.

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Workshop Important Info 1/14 & 1/15, 2017
by Jeffrey Brace 12 Jan '17

12 Jan '17

Everyone who has already told me that they are coming will have a table. If you haven't told me, then you will have no table, be shunned and have to watch through the window from outside and watch everyone else play. ;) We are back to 9032-A because the 9010-A room as shown to be too small to accommodate us. LOCATION: InfoAge Building 9032A - (2201 Marconi Road, Wall Township, NJ) TIME: Start about 10 A.M. on Saturday and ends whenever we go to sleep. End about 5 P.M. on Sunday. (Starts around 10 A.M. Sunday morning) COST: - $10 for all members attending the workshop, which VCF donates to InfoAge as thanks for providing the space for us. - $25 for those wanting to stay overnight. Please pay me when you get there so that I don't forget. - OVERNIGHT: Bring your own pillow, blankets, soap etc. We provide a bed frame and an uncovered mattress. There are showers and a kitchen for your use. - We will have PayPal credit card swipes available. EQUIPMENT: - VCF will provide a table and you can use any available electrical outlet. - Bring your own tools, power strips, power cords and supplies etc. DRINKS: You should bring your own. I would recommend bringing a cooler of some type. FOOD: You provide your own. We may order pizza or go out to a dinner. Usually we make a decision when everyone gets hungry. GATE: During the hours from 1pm to 5pm close the front gate behind you. We want museum visitors to go to the front lobby and not wander through the middle of the campus. Outside of those times you can feel free to leave the gate open. PARKING: Park across from 9032A on the grass area. WEATHER: We will watch the weather very carefully. Snow is a predicted Saturday. We will make a judgement Friday night weather we will cancel due to snow. QUESTIONS? Please ask me (Jeff Brace) or Evan. My cell is 732-759-1783 and Evan’s is 646-546-9999 in case you need to contact us. See everyone there! And have fun! -- Jeff Brace - ark72axow(a)gmail.com

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Dan Kottke pitching a Raspberry Pi-like system
by Jeffrey Jonas 12 Jan '17

12 Jan '17

there are many many Raspberry Pi clones. Here are 5 slick commercial-videos for them. Daniel Kottke starts with a pitch for the Pine A64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1l4I2UIw1Q 5 Raspberry-pi alternatives

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Ultibo
by jsalzman＠gmail.com 12 Jan '17

12 Jan '17

Ultibo is not my project. I discovered it only because someone wrote a CP/M emulator in the environment. I assume Pascal was chosen because it's considered the "perfect" language due to its structured style and ease of use. Pascal is sometimes studied for programming theory for the same reason. Regardless, it's all compiled to machine code anyway, so even a made-up programming language could have been implemented. On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Douglas Crawford <touchetek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello: > > Pascal & Pi? You sent me through a rash of searches and web links to > figure that out. > I had no idea a Pascal derived from Borland lived on and thrived, let > alone was some folks choice even on embedded development. > The list of the supported environments on the Free Pascal wiki is fully > shocking to me. > The list of software produced with it is not so long on the wiki, but I > have used > one on the list PeaZip it works very well and of course had no idea of its > underpinnings. > > What are you implementing with it? Why have you stuck with Pascal? Its > fascinating to me. > > -Doug Crawford > >

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What are you working on for The next great workshop is Jan 14 & 15
by Jeffrey Brace 12 Jan '17

12 Jan '17

Workshop attendees watcha workin on? Also let me know about overnight dorm stay if needed.

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Needed: one helper tomorrow
by Evan Koblentz 12 Jan '17

12 Jan '17

Can anyone help me in the museum and warehouse tomorrow? Dean was going to but he got sick. Contact me privately.

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OT: new product, Kickstarter campaign
by Dave McGuire 12 Jan '17

12 Jan '17

This is very much off-topic. Last year, I was introduced to a friend-of-a-friend who had a lighting control project with...shall we say "engineering problems". I was brought in to finish it up. While it's a simple concept, it also solves a real problem and is rather cool. It was a fun little project. They just fired up a Kickstarter campaign to fund the initial production run. You might see a familiar face in the video. ;) Here it is: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/neilson/switcheroo-lighting-made-easy They're pretty close to their funding goal; it'd be great if you folks could help push him over the edge. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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What types of VCF exhibits do you like......Re: Advice on Xenix VCF exhibit
by Dan Roganti 12 Jan '17

12 Jan '17

thought I'd alter the subject just in case the thread police is looking :) As mentioned in the original thread, striking a balance with the types of exhibits is really the best option. I was fortunate to participate here for a decade and noticed at times there can be a shortage in the variety of exhibits. It's just plain logistics, it's very cumbersome to setup minicomputer exhibits. You can't make everyone happy. But you still can appeal to a wider audience, to help sell tickets -- and t-shirts :) In general, I always found it intriguing to make a VCF exhibit with case examples of computer being used in the industry, the real world, where it was put to work. I think that would make an attractive display, and steer away from the gamer. They already have different events around the country specifically for gamers. Versus a static exhibit of a computer, peripherals and software. Personally, I like to collect and record historical info like this about about my first job at SEL. They were around since the early days of the space race and were one of the many "grunts" in the industry. They had to fight for contracts against the big heavyweights such as IBM and the Seven dwarves. I entered their company midstream but I worked with many old timers. And it was very cool to learn of the many contracts they won while being a "grunt" in the market. About the fascinating projects we got to work on. Everything from Nasa, aerospace, military, nuclear, simulators, physics, etc, etc. There were some very exciting projects over there from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Despite the usual business politics from the suits, I was really proud to have a part in those projects. And so one of my pastimes, as best as I can, is collect info like this on my website. Most museums just collect the machine and software but you never hear about those exciting examples on where it was used. But in my case, finding one of those systems to use in an exhibit from my first job is about as rare as hen's teeth. Because the amount of systems produced is a far magnitude less than IBM or DEC. And then removing them from existing installations is highly improbable :) But this idea can still apply to any other systems out there. I never had a chance yet to exhibit an idea like this, but maybe some time in the future I can. And I would encourage others to try this. Because it goes beyond the "who designed" it or "who wired it", and more about the practical use of a computer. How it made a significant impact in the world. Take for example Mike's SAGE exhibit or in recent years the spreadsheet exhibit from Douglas. I know there's other examples of past exhibits like this that I can't recall at the moment. Some examples like this can obviously be difficult to obtain or replicate for those projects to make a live demonstration in a VCF exhibit. Perhaps just a simplified example can be produced, and I think that's still acceptable. It's not very easy bringing a nuclear power plant to VCF :) But it's nothing that some additional pictures, posters, or multimedia presentation which can supplement the exhibit because of space or logistics. So you can highlight the significance of this work in the real world. This idea may be more difficult for microcomputer exhibits. But one simple example I hoped to exhibit sometime in the future was how microcomputers were increasingly used in laboratory research. Mainly because of economics. Let's face it, companies had a strict budget. Some didn't need megabytes of storage or a supercomputer. And then 8bit CP/M computers were being outpaced by 16bit CP/M computers, then you had the IBM PC market and other 16bit desktop computers. Rugged systems is not really needed for this, but they could still calculate and compute large data sets from laboratory experiments. There are books from the 70s and 80s that illustrate how they were integrated with laboratory instruments to perform experiments. This reminds me of a very old article from the early 80s which I have no luck in recovering these days. During the early Apple][ heyday, they were already comparing the horsepower from the Eniac era. Where it was shown this was just as powerful as during the Manhattan project. Being able to simulate [ie. no graphics] the chain reactions by computing the Markov chain using Monte Carlo algorithms for a nuclear explosion. Maybe Homeland Security wouldn't be too keen these days on this kind of exhibit, but who knows !! So I always found it compelling to learn how computers were put to work. Dan

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Advice on Xenix VCF exhibit
by Mike Willegal 11 Jan '17

11 Jan '17

On some of the Apple II lists that I am on, it appears that the majority of the list members are more interested in the software (really games) than anything else. Also, some nearby people I have been acquainted with from that group, have mentioned in the past that they think VCF is for mini-computer people, not Apple Ii/micro computer type people, hence they would rather travel all the way to Kansas City, rather than relatively close by, New Jersey. Just something to think about. This hobby is way too small for us to be filtering out potential participants. We are better off taking advantage of the excitement surrounding vintage games, which is what interests many people, rather than downplaying it. We might think about leveraging that gaming interest so that more casual visitors might become active hobbyists. It shouldn't be considered a competition, there will always be room for people that are more interested in the technology and history side of the hobby. I remember back in the 70's when I was an avid historical wargamer. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson came up with something called Dungeons and Dragons during that period. It brought in a very large new group of people and changed the hobby significantly. Up til then, it was a hobby, run by hobbyists, very few people making a full time living off the hobby. The advent of D&D made it possible for many more clever people to make a good living, which made for a lot more possibilities in the hobby for both business and participants. However, what it did not do, was prevent the old school historical wargamer from enjoying their historical games. I'm not sure exactly what I'm suggesting here, other then don't discourage people by keeping the focus too narrow. I understand that this event isn't and shouldn't become a vintage game convention, but we still need to grow the hobby, and right now we shouldn't discourage anyone from having a little fun with vintage computers, no matter how they find it. Mike Willegal

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Amiga 3000 salvage
by Adam Michlin 11 Jan '17

11 Jan '17

Hi Everyone, I have a donated Amiga 3000 that I'd like to get working for my classroom. Damage is way beyond my own ability to repair or learn to repair and probably more than could be done during a typical workshop. Looks like at least one exploded battery perhaps decades ago and all sorts of other issues, most likely including recapping. I just can't bring myself to recycle it, so I'm hoping to get it professionally restored. Any recommendations for people who might do such a thing in the NJ, NY, CT tri-state area? I wont say money is no object, but I'm happy to pay a reasonable fee. Thanks, -Adam

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Advice on Xenix VCF exhibit
by Duane 11 Jan '17

11 Jan '17

>>- We implant chips in peoples' brains Reminds me of a conversation, on an elevator, with one of our supervisors and an apprentice instructor. I hear something to the effect that you were drilling holes in the students head to pour in the knowledge directly. Oh? Yes, they said you were boring the students. Might have been an old joke Duane -----Original Message----- From: Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 3:02 PM To: vcf-midatlantic Cc: Evan Koblentz Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Advice on Xenix VCF exhibit > Very true. I agree that the variety at VCF ensures that we cover a broader > interest. That being said, how do we get people to want to walk in the > door > in the first place? Personally, I don't think that Facebook and blogs are > enough. Can we reach a larger audience? We do a TON of different marketing things (a huge part of my job) and we see which ones stick. Briefly: - We reach out to tech media - We contact local mainstream news - We implant chips in peoples' brains - We reach out to hackerspaces, amateur radio clubs, ACM/IEEE chapters, general computer clubs, other museums, etc. - We use Facebook and Twitter - We use the force - We ask the other InfoAge groups to tell their members - We have an email announcement-only list (http://vcfed.org/wp/newsletter/) - We have candy - We preach VCF in our exhibit at related events

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BSD ports to vintage
by Herb Johnson 11 Jan '17

11 Jan '17

It's hard to follow all the Xenix-related posts. But I have a Multibus system running Xenix, if that's of interest. http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/386intel/i386_multi.html For a time, Microsoft sold Xenix for various systems. My Xenix is of Microsoft origin and clearly they had Intel interest or vice versa. Xenix found its way onto many systems in the early 80's period. Later Microsoft sold their interests back to SCO. From an exhibition point of view, there's any number of Xenix systems which could be exhibited, under some theme by a single exhibitor. I'd consider cooperating with an exhibitor regarding my machine, contact me privately. Herb retrotechnology.com

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OT: Anyone here using Comcast ISP?
by william degnan 11 Jan '17

11 Jan '17

Is it me, or is there a problem reaching https://hostisp-vandal.syssrc.com:2083 I can't get to this server from Comcast only, works from Verizon. Thanks Bill

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] What are you working on for The next great workshop is Jan 14 & 15
by Blatboy 11 Jan '17

11 Jan '17

I know this thread was from last week, but since I now know for sure I'll be making it for the whole weekend, I figured I'd chime in. This will be my first time since the 1980s to take a bunch of computer gear somewhere to set up on a table and mix with other enthusiasts. So, please pardon me if I'm totally green, chomping at the bit, over excited, annoyingly verbose, and to top it all off: under skilled. haha I apologize for the book I'm about to write here. I'm tempted to bring my full collection (I need to organize it anyway) as I'm not 100% sure what my goals are and what I can accomplish with this kind of dedicated time to devote to my habit, er "hobby." Any input from ye more experienced is appreciated. For sure I'm planning to bring: An Amiga 3000 with some interesting expansions and a multitude of kooky outboard SCSI gear. (CD drive... Floptical... Bernoulli...) I'm hoping to replace the spindle HD w/a SCSI2SD setup. I've yet to figure out how to get the computer to mount the outboard SCSI equipment. I'm hoping to get over that hump and be able to determine what hardware actually works and what doesn't. My first computer: A trusty/crusty C64. I need to take apart and clean the keyboard. I'll bring a soldering iron and some other tools. If I get that far, I've got a ZoomFloppy card and a C64 NIC+ card that I'd love to try to mess around with. I'll bring a 1541 or two as well. Note that I'm hoping to be able to archive old floppies of mine for both machines. I've already started the process with the c64 (with the ZoomFloppy) but I've yet to modify one of the 1541 drives with a parallel port. Certain disks (like GEOS) seem only be properly imaged via parallel. Tools...disks.... a Commodore monitor and a modern(ish) flat Dell monitor that works with the 3000 and also has S-video and composite inputs. A modern notebook running Win10 and Linux. A MacBook Pro running OSX. A iPad with all my tech books and docs. I'm considering bringing: Mac Classic II: It works great, but I need to prepare and add a SCSI2SD card for this machine. I have some interesting hardware that may allow for Ethernet connection. That'd be fun to experiment with. Macintosh Powerbook G3 Clam Shell ("Wall Street") running OS9. A great "middle man" machine that can communicate with both classic macs and modern ones. Atari 2600: I added some hardware that was supposed to allow it to work on modern monitors. (I forget now if it added a composite connection or something else...not digital.) It didn't go so well. I'd like to troubleshoot that. An A500: It works well and I've found it to be useful when working with the A3000. An SX64. Because I can. ;) A Vectrex. (see SX64) Again... any thoughts are appreciated. I'm also happy to bring stuff just because someone would like to see it. I have a pretty decent compliment of tools for general electronics. If there is something anyone is needing, please say so. I may be able to help. Thanks for reading my book here. Walter http://www.jwalterhawkes.com http://www.blatboy.com like to know where/when I'm playing? Click here <http://www.blatomaster.com/mlist.php> to sign up for my list, and let the babble begin. Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:39:12 +0000 > From: Jeffrey Brace <ark72axow(a)gmail.com> > To: vcf-midatlantic > <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> > Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] What are you working on for The next great > workshop is Jan 14 & 15 > Message-ID: > <CAKVfvQwFrTUune3aUXdppfeqOQQat36QeZLLNHLZKmeAi_T7JQ@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Workshop attendees watcha workin on? > > Also let me know about overnight dorm stay if needed. >

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Saturday weather
by Evan Koblentz 11 Jan '17

11 Jan '17

Still too early to be certain, but the forecasts are calling for very little snow in the afternoon and evening, so most of us traveling Saturday morning should be fine.

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PiDP8 writeup
by william degnan 11 Jan '17

11 Jan '17

Here is my PiDP8 writeup http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=663 BIll

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Exhibits: what was memorable and why
by Douglas Crawford 11 Jan '17

11 Jan '17

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Amiga 3000 salvage
by Blatboy 11 Jan '17

11 Jan '17

I've successfully recapped an old Mac Classic II. Unfortunately, I really didn't have the skills and it gave me a false sense of security. I've done... a not beautiful job (understatement) on an Amiga and another Macintosh board since then. I'm about to send them in to get them professionally done. I'm sure there will be many four letter words catapulted in my general direction haha. Just so you see what's out there: I'm sending them here, if you want to look into it: https://acill.ecwid.com/ Paul is a regular on the Amiga.org boards, and while I don't really know him, it seems his work is well respected. If you sent him hi res photos of the board, I'm sure he would tell you if he can work on it or not. Outside of that, getting a refurbished board isn't a bad idea either and may cost near the same, depending on how much corrosion is on the board. --- In other news, it's now looking like I will be there for the workshop! (I already signed up) I just received confirmation that my wife will be going out of town this weekend. I'll be bringing my 3000 (and some other things) to work on. I'm stoked. Walter http://www.jwalterhawkes.com http://www.blatboy.com like to know where/when I'm playing? Click here <http://www.blatomaster.com/mlist.php> to sign up for my list, and let the babble begin.

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