- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by Neil Cherry 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

On 06/07/2016 04:36 PM, Christopher Blackmon via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > Ya'll slow down a minute... I need more popcorn.This is the best episode > of "Grumpy Old Engineers" I've seen in a while! Hey, you kids, get off my work bench! ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Anybody want to "make odds" on Evan's announcement?
by Chris Fala 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

Bil Herd will speak at VCF East XII. (I can't afford to lose a bet.) On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Bill Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > 1:1 - Mr. Wozniak will speak at VCF West > 10:1 - Mr. Allen will speak at VCR West > 50:1 - Mr. Gates will speak at VCF West > > > >

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Anybody want to "make odds" on Evan's announcement?
by Bill Sudbrink 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

1:1 - Mr. Wozniak will speak at VCF West 10:1 - Mr. Allen will speak at VCR West 50:1 - Mr. Gates will speak at VCF West

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OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by Herb Johnson 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

As it's quiet on the maillist, I'll ask about something on the edges of vintage computing. People today - I use the phrase "in the 21st century" - don't seem to know anything about how computers work, anymore. I'd like a little feedback, not a huge discussion (and not a gripe session), about how common that ignorance is, what we as vintage computer owners should do - once I clarify what I mean, and provide an example. It's a subject relevant to vintage computing, because that affects what we are obliged to tell people, to explain, when showing our vintage systems. It's also relevant, because one reason to preserve and operate these vintage systems, is to SHOW how these things worked, to preserve by example their fundamental nature and approach to computing (personal or otherwise). It's a preservation of a level of direct knowledge, which was necessary "then", but not necessary "now". Evidence for "now": recently, someone contacted me as part of my vintage-Mac services, with a vague request. Something close to "I'm trying to read and edit a file from a 1994 Mac, in an obsolete file format from vintage publishing software. Can you help me open and reformat that file?" It took three or so emails, to get the particulars, which are easy to describe either as hardware or software (IDE hard drive, 6300 model Mac, Aldus Pagemaker 6). At some point, some "technical service" told this person they could "read the file from the hard drive" - yet this person couldn't say if they HAD the file on "their PC". Or even clearly say they had a Windows PC or a Mac PC. I had to keep asking questions to get these basics. Why? Because they are no longer active questions. "Everyone" uses Windows (a few use Macs, some use Linux, but context quickly establishes which). Those OS's do everything by magic now, little user intervention needed. Even the computer dealers (by my experience) don't know "how" they work, they just work. On hardware, "if it fits, it works". Many people don't know how to find a file through a file directory (desktop folders); the programs "know" where they are. These people get lost, even doing backups. I think that's pretty fundamental. Oh - Ted Nelson, at a VCF-E dinner, said to me he tried to teach a computer course at a community college. He said "I gave up in three weeks, because the students didn't know (bleep) about computers". That's my experience today. I get this a lot. Again - I'm not looking for a discussion that rags on "today's computer users are idiots". That's not the point. the point is, what do we as vintage computer demonstrators do, when confronted with such people, who look at our systems? Also: I appreciate I have a point of view, not shared by all vintage computer owners. Some may see their stuff, as say "neat gaming systems that we all enjoyed at a similar time in our lives" and simply want to operate them with others who share that same experience. Whether the game is downloaded from the Internet or from an original ROM cartridge is irrelevant. Or, maybe, played on an emulator. I'm aware of that point of view. If those with such interests, have parallel experience with "people today don't appreciate 1990's video games", that would be informative to me, in this discussion. OK? These are real questions of real interest to me. How do we do, what we do with vintage computers, in this context? This is not a rag-on-morons gripe session. OK? Herb Johnson with a point of view retrotechnology.com -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by Herb Johnson 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

I'm working up some responses, but I'm about to "throw a flag". A good part of the discussion has become "why engineers today are no good at the deep stuff". I'm a BSEE myself, I get that. But my question is not so much about "how can we reach the engineers of today or tomorrow?". And certainly not about teaching differential equations, or linked-lists. My question as posed, was how we as vintage computer owners, can reach and inform - at least answer some questions, catch the eye - of ORDINARY 21st century people who see our stuff and show some interest? To the technical point: ordinary people (but including some engineers) lack familiarity with the simple but "deep" operating principles and features of these ancient devices and software. And they lack the notion that stuff like this was repaired, even redesigned, and built - often by semi-technical people of the era? And they can *still* be repaired and operated today? So what demonstrations, explanations, and presentations, will show the context and operation and "meaning" of these 1970's, 80's and even 90's systems and artifacts? To today's mere mortals? ...all in the light of the 21st century circumstances many of you have described, either for the non-techical masses, or our recent engineering colleagues. I'll post some EE-type responses, but my point is not about them, that's the easy lift. herb BSEE 1976 -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by Dave McGuire 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

On 06/07/2016 02:03 PM, Bill Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > It's a bit astonishing to me too. We get job candidates > with CS degrees from reputable universities who don't > know what a register is, can't explain how basic sorts > work or why you would even want to know. In my opinion, > the most evil phrase to come out of a software engineer's > mouth is "I don't want to have to think about...". Yup, > it's all abstracted away. You get a "container class" > with "iterators" and "find" methods and you're all set. > Not fast enough? Throw more hardware at it. > > This is raising my blood pressure... gotta stop. I know exactly how you feel. The shift toward this type of thinking has been building for a long time. It's exactly why I moved entirely into embedded systems development, where we still code in assembler a lot of the time, and we still know how computers actually work and how code actually gets executed. And for people who think this shift is a "good thing": Bullshit. This is the sort of "progress" that landed us in a position where an operating system requires billions of bytes of RAM just to boot. Get some perspective and look at the bigger picture. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by Neil Cherry 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

On 06/07/2016 02:34 PM, Christopher Blackmon via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > And here I was thinking it was the place the cashiers stuck my money > after giving me an ever dwindling amount of "stuff." Wait, you don't use I-Pay? Bout you are old school ... (ducks for cover). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by william degnan 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

Sorry to be simplistic, but most people only do things when it's in their economic interest. We live today among an absolute glut of supply and disposable computers. There is no incentive to repair when replace is faster and cheaper. It is foolish to try to fix something that can be replaced. People are doing the "right thing" by not bothering. It may simply be that the "get under the hood" mentality has skipped a generation or two. Interest will return as soon as it becomes economic to fix things again. Very few people torture over the electronics of computing just for the heck of it, without some sort of short or long term expected return on their investment. With such a high percentage of people graduating from HS and not being able to read...the world is changing. b

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by Neil Cherry 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

On 06/07/2016 02:03 PM, Bill Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > Neil Cherry wrote: >> I'm a bit old school, can't quite understand how >> those in computers can't understand the underlying >> principles of the computer (hardware and software). >> But along those same lines we're abstracting so >> much of this that we don't need to understand it >> that well. > > It's a bit astonishing to me too. We get job candidates > with CS degrees from reputable universities who don't > know what a register is, It's where the heat comes out of the floor or wall. ;-) > can't explain how basic sorts > work or why you would even want to know. In my opinion, > the most evil phrase to come out of a software engineer's > mouth is "I don't want to have to think about...". Yup, Rule of thumb, but that's supposed to come with experience, experience from knowledge and mistakes (10 aw sh*ts to 1 at-a-boy). Actually these containers/abstractions make the work possible (especially in networking). And I forget my sorts but I know why (complexity) but that won't get me a job anymore (and that terrifies me). > it's all abstracted away. You get a "container class" > with "iterators" and "find" methods and you're all set. > Not fast enough? Throw more hardware at it. Corporations don't want engineers, they want drones and with AI they'll get just that (save that rant for another day). It's the march of progress ... -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by Dean Notarnicola 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

Bill, completely agreed. The depressing result is that, without underlying knowledge of the systems they are programming, these "software engineers" have no idea how to troubleshoot an issue beyond their code, or how to code efficiently. This is not an entirely new phenomenon. I knew plenty of Cobol programmers back in the day who knew practically zero about how or why the underlying systems worked. The best programmers I have known also had a very good understanding of the hardware and communication channels. On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Bill Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > Neil Cherry wrote: > > I'm a bit old school, can't quite understand how > > those in computers can't understand the underlying > > principles of the computer (hardware and software). > > But along those same lines we're abstracting so > > much of this that we don't need to understand it > > that well. > > It's a bit astonishing to me too. We get job candidates > with CS degrees from reputable universities who don't > know what a register is, can't explain how basic sorts > work or why you would even want to know. In my opinion, > the most evil phrase to come out of a software engineer's > mouth is "I don't want to have to think about...". Yup, > it's all abstracted away. You get a "container class" > with "iterators" and "find" methods and you're all set. > Not fast enough? Throw more hardware at it. > > This is raising my blood pressure... gotta stop. > > Bill S. > > > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by chrisjpf33＠gmail.com 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

And that is why we have garbage software today! On Jun 7, 2016, at 2:03 PM, Bill Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: Neil Cherry wrote: > I'm a bit old school, can't quite understand how > those in computers can't understand the underlying > principles of the computer (hardware and software). > But along those same lines we're abstracting so > much of this that we don't need to understand it > that well. It's a bit astonishing to me too. We get job candidates with CS degrees from reputable universities who don't know what a register is, can't explain how basic sorts work or why you would even want to know. In my opinion, the most evil phrase to come out of a software engineer's mouth is "I don't want to have to think about...". Yup, it's all abstracted away. You get a "container class" with "iterators" and "find" methods and you're all set. Not fast enough? Throw more hardware at it. This is raising my blood pressure... gotta stop. Bill S.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic writes: >> I liken the general lack of knowledge about the inner working of >computers to the general lack of knowledge of automobile internals > >Thank you I was going to use the same analogy. It's because they've become an appliance. You don't need to know how TV works to watch it and, in the same vein, you don't need to know how a computer works to use it either. Also, the GUI -- guarantee user ignorance -- has, IMNSHO, done much to remove the user from the system. And then, there's the education system. Kids come out of college without any understanding of how to program but, oh boy, they know all of the syntactical nuances of the latest trendy language. Assembly programming should be one of their mandatory classes. There, they will need to think through creation of an algorithm using basic computer functions. Me? I was an EE. Never to any programming classes. It was expected of us to learn it to solve EE problems. I really see no merit to teaching some programming lingo but I do see merit in developing a logical/programming mindset to get from point A (input) the pot B (output).

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Big news tomorrow night :)
by Evan Koblentz 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

We're going to make a big announcement tomorrow night. Stay tuned!

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] pickup in DC?
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

Ethan via vcf-midatlantic writes: >> If Bob is unable to pick the item up I might be able to help. I'm in > >Springfield, but work in Herndon. > -J > >I am in Chantilly, VA which is outside of DC. Don't make it into the >city very often. > >Still have a 40 watt 532nm YAG laser in the garage waiting for someone >to come pick it up from Arizona. Grrr. I'll come pick that up! ;)

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] pickup in DC?
by J. Alexander Jacocks 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

And I'm on the edge of the area, in Queenstown, MD, though I'm originally from Montgomery County, and work (sometimes) in Tyson's Corner. - Alex On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Bill Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > Bob Flanders wrote: > > Did we already discuss this? > > We've tried before to figure out the "DC area > subgroup"... > > I'm in Silver Spring, David G is in Bethesda... > > Bill S. > > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] pickup in DC?
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: > > Hey folks. Awhile back I needed some help getting a vintage >oscilloscope retrieved from Oklahoma. I'm pleased to report that, with >the help of a friend, it has been retrieved. Now that friend is >traveling in Washington DC, and he brought it with him. Is there anyone >in or near DC who might be able to meet up with him downtown and grab >it? I'll be in DC again in 2-3 weeks and can pick it up at that time. > > Thanks, -Dave Great to see it's advanced east so quickly.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] LAST CALL! For Workshop June 11 & 12!
by Stephen A Edwards 06 Jun '16

06 Jun '16

I'm planning to arrive Saturday afternoon/evening and leaving late Sunday. I'll need a ride from the train station. Anybody else likely arriving late Saturday? Also: I'm going to bring 3 NeXT keyboard & mice (non-ADB)? The museum gets at least one pair; anybody else like the other pair? I also plan to bring some unpopulated S-100 cards (mostly serial ports) and a bare 8" hard drive. Anybody interested in these? 01-Jeff B. - Commodore 64 Robotics Kit for HOPE Exhibit 02-Evan - Lego LOGO robotics kit for HOPE exhibit (Apple II, IBM PC) 03-Alex J. - PS/2 model 70 and AT&T 6300 testing/repairs (Sunday) 04-Dean - TRS-80 Model 4, Model 4D, Model I 05-Todd - Not entirely sure, but definitely will bring my AT&T 6300 06- Bill Drom. - Plan on working on Univac 1532 mods for 60 Hz operation. possibly also clean up the 400 Hz motor gererator set. 07-Duane - same as Bill Drom. 08-Steven M. - need opinions on salvaging an Audio Visual Workshop (AVL) version of an Eagle computer. I rescued it from the back of an AV staging co warehouse. So far all it does it make smoke. Amazingly, there was a spare motherboard packed in the road case... 09-Ian - 2600's Z-100 10- Stephen E. Osborne 1, Commodore 64, Formerly depopulated Apple II motherboard. Apple II power supply. 11-

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] LAST CALL! For Workshop June 11 & 12!
by Todd George 06 Jun '16

06 Jun '16

Hey guys! Sadly, it turns out that I'm only able to make it on Sunday this time. Very bummed. I've updated my participation in the list below. Thanks, -Todd 01-Jeff B. - Commodore 64 Robotics Kit for HOPE Exhibit 02-Evan - Lego LOGO robotics kit for HOPE exhibit (Apple II, IBM PC) 03-Alex J. - PS/2 model 70 and AT&T 6300 testing/repairs (Sunday) 04-Dean - TRS-80 Model 4, Model 4D, Model I 05-Todd - Not entirely sure, but definitely will bring my AT&T 6300 (Sunday) 06- Bill Drom. - Plan on working on Univac 1532 mods for 60 Hz operation. possibly also clean up the 400 Hz motor gererator set. 07-Duane - same as Bill Drom. 08-Steven M. - need opinions on salvaging an Audio Visual Workshop (AVL) version of an Eagle computer. I rescued it from the back of an AV staging co warehouse. So far all it does it make smoke. Amazingly, there was a spare motherboard packed in the road case... 09-Ian - 2600's Z-100

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LAST CALL! For Workshop June 11 & 12!
by Jeffrey Brace 06 Jun '16

06 Jun '16

If you want to be guaranteed a table, then sign up here now! This is the current list that I have: 01-Jeff B. - Commodore 64 Robotics Kit for HOPE Exhibit 02-Evan - Lego LOGO robotics kit for HOPE exhibit (Apple II, IBM PC) 03-Alex J. - PS/2 model 70 and AT&T 6300 testing/repairs (Sunday) 04-Dean - TRS-80 Model 4, Model 4D, Model I 05-Todd - Not entirely sure, but definitely will bring my AT&T 6300 06- Bill Drom. - Plan on working on Univac 1532 mods for 60 Hz operation. possibly also clean up the 400 Hz motor gererator set. 07-Duane - same as Bill Drom. 08-Steven M. - need opinions on salvaging an Audio Visual Workshop (AVL) version of an Eagle computer. I rescued it from the back of an AV staging co warehouse. So far all it does it make smoke. Amazingly, there was a spare motherboard packed in the road case... 09-Ian - 2600's Z-100 10- 11-

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pickup in DC?
by Dave McGuire 06 Jun '16

06 Jun '16

Hey folks. Awhile back I needed some help getting a vintage oscilloscope retrieved from Oklahoma. I'm pleased to report that, with the help of a friend, it has been retrieved. Now that friend is traveling in Washington DC, and he brought it with him. Is there anyone in or near DC who might be able to meet up with him downtown and grab it? I'll be in DC again in 2-3 weeks and can pick it up at that time. Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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Apparently Authentic Apple 1 on eBay
by J. Alexander Jacocks 06 Jun '16

06 Jun '16

Not sure if anyone here cares, but there is a seemingly-authentic Apple 1 on eBay, right now going for about $17k. http://www.ebay.com/itm/282050295252 Looks non-working, but reparable, to my untrained eye. - Alex

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workshop prep
by Jeffrey Jonas 05 Jun '16

05 Jun '16

Who needed EPROMS such as 2764? I have plenty to spare, but do you have a UV eraser & programmer? Who asked for Z80 chips at a previous workshop? I have more. I'm sorting my old chips, just ask if you need anything such as 16k, 64k DIP DRAM. I NEED: 0.3" chip rails. I also need help identifying chips: Universal Pioneer UM4004, but it's a 0.6" 28 pin DIP Thanks, and see you at the workshop! -- jeffj

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A few old books
by Bob Flanders 05 Jun '16

05 Jun '16

Anyone interested? For the library maybe?

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FS: Bytek S-10 EPROM Programmer Standalone/RS232 Control
by Systems Glitch 05 Jun '16

05 Jun '16

link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/272264880145 This one arrived in a lot of surplus test equipment from Virginia Tech. It had an exploded electrolytic in the power supply -- vented electrolyte all over the inside! I cleaned it up and replaced the blown capacitor with a NOS reformed unit, and it seems to power up and be functional. Unfortunately, I can't locate a manual on it, so I can't test programming functionality -- you have to select the EPROM type with a numeric code, which I don't have. Hence the listing as "for parts." Inside, this is a little 8085 based system. Your typical array of standard and MCS-80/85 family parts. I want to say it uses a regular EPROM, so that should be easy to dump if someone is interested in reverse-engineering the EPROM definitions, or writing custom firmware for it. Very clean design. I've already got a number of programmers so I figured I'd pass this one on to someone else to hack on. Thanks, Jonathan

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FS: Leader LS-1020 20 MHz Analog Dual Trace Oscilloscope
by Systems Glitch 04 Jun '16

04 Jun '16

link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/272264264580 Simple 20 MHz analog dual trace oscilloscope. Fully tested with my Tektronix function generator. Picked it up in a lot of surplus lab gear. This would be a fine little 'scope if you need something to look at relatively slow digital signals or for general hobbyist level analog work. Thanks, Jonathan

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"bit rot" LCDs
by Jeffrey Jonas 04 Jun '16

04 Jun '16

Apropos of the pocket computer with the rotting screen: I have a parts drawer full of NOS unused LCDs. Some have gone dark and now it seems to be spreading. Does one out-gassing/leaking cause the others to rot? Some even had silicone sealant along the edges! -- jeffj

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FS: Tektronix/Sony 308 Data Analyzer (Logic Analyzer)
by Systems Glitch 04 Jun '16

04 Jun '16

link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/272264216556 Fully functional, just selling it as I've finally got my HP 1650A logic analyzer set up and checked out. I've used this little logic analyzer a number of times in both vintage computer and embedded microcontroller work. It comes with the P6451 pod, which allows both 8-bit parallel data acquisition and serial analysis. Full flying lead and grabber kit included -- you can plug the flying leads onto AP/3M "DIP clips", standard pin headers (like an IDE header), wire wrap pins, or into the grabbers. Instruction manual is included, as well as an IEC power cable and the protective front panel cover. This unit can be expanded with a word recognizer pod, which allows input from 16 possible inputs to trigger data collection. This can be used to trigger when, for example, an 8-bit CPU hits a certain address. The auction does *not* include a word recognizer pod. As with all listings, if you'd like to save on shipping by having me bring this to the next VCF workshop event I'm able to attend, that's fine! Thanks, Jonathan

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Video Footage from VCFE XI
by Douglas Crawford 04 Jun '16

04 Jun '16

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Looking for Compaq DeskPro/386 parts
by Richard Cini 04 Jun '16

04 Jun '16

All – This old Compaq DeskPro I dug-out is working great at this point, and I located a second Type 17 MPI/CDC hard drive. However, I am looking for a few random parts for it. If anyone has the following that they’re willing to part with, please contact me off-list: · Drive power cable (5-pin black on the mobo side and regular 4-pin drive on the other; gray wire). Right now I’m using a power splitter which works fine. Just looking for OEM cable. · Drive mounting slides (2). These are solid metal, maybe 3/16” thick and have holes drilled for both the drive and the cage. None of the slides I have are thick enough. · Keyboard and/or cable. The cable on mine is shot and the SPACE bar doesn’t work. I’m using a regular AT keyboard, which of course works fine. The mounting slides is the most important right now because I can’t find a way to secure the drive properly. I also located a generic ‘286 motherboard for my rusty non-booting AT. Got it cheap, so it was worth buying it for testing versus the original AT board. Hopefully between the two machines I’ll be able to get a Windows 1 demo working. Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

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IMPORTANT Info - Workshop June 11/12
by Jeffrey Brace 04 Jun '16

04 Jun '16

LOCATION: InfoAge Building 9032A - (2201 Marconi Road, Wall Township, NJ) TIME: Start about 10 A.M. on Saturday and ends whenever we go to sleep. End about 5 P.M. on Sunday. (Starts around 10 A.M. Sunday morning) COST: $10 for all members attending the workshop, which VCF donates to InfoAge as thanks for providing the space for us. EQUIPMENT: VCF will provide a table and you can use any available electrical outlet. Bring your own tools, power strips, power cords and supplies etc. DRINKS: You should bring your own. I would recommend bringing a cooler of some type. Upon request there is a refrigerator available down the hall. FOOD: You provide your own. We may order pizza or go out to a dinner. Usually we make a decision when everyone gets hungry. GATE: Please close the front gate behind you. We want museum visitors to go to the front lobby and not wander through the middle of the campus. PARKING: Park behind the back ramp of 9032A (which is around the building), or in the main parking lot, NOT in the courtyard. QUESTIONS? Please ask me (Jeff Brace) or Evan. My cell is 732-759-1783 and Evan’s is 646-546-9999 in case you need to contact us. See everyone there! And have fun!

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My ebay score :)
by Evan Koblentz 04 Jun '16

04 Jun '16

It's in transit, so I guess that's good enough .... I bought a four-volume set of Army books about (ahem) automatic data processing for a grand total of ten dollars. I viewed/copied some individual pages of the first three books while doing research at the old Ft. Monmouth museum several years ago. Didn't know there was a fourth book and they're not available on Amazon or used.addall.net or anyplace else. The volumes are: Book 1 - Introduction to ADPS Book 2 - Army use of ADPS Book 3 - Fieldata equipment Book 4 - Fieldata system application I'll loan these to the museum and put them on display with our MOBIDIC/Fieldata exhibit. But first, I will scan them and make them available to Bitsavers/Archive.org.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] June 11/12 Workshop - Who's Going? Whatcha working on?
by Todd George 04 Jun '16

04 Jun '16

01-Jeff Brace-Commodore 64 Robotics Kit for HOPE Exhibit 02-Evan Koblentz-Lego LOGO robotics kit for HOPE exhibit (Apple II, IBM PC) 03-Alex Jacocks-PS/2 model 70 and AT&T 6300 testing/repairs (Sunday) 04-Dean Notarnicola - TRS-80 Model 4, Model 4D, Model I 05-Todd George - Not entirely sure, but definitely will bring my AT&T 6300 as well! (I think the highest number was 5... ???) I have an AT&T 6300 with monochrome and color monitors. Monochrome jobby works, color is broken. I've already located and replaced a few bad components, can't seem to get the CRT to come totally alive though. The 6300 works (or worked) when I tested it last. I didn't think anyone else would be bringing them but seeing as Alex is interested, I'll bring mine!! Olivetti/AT&T party!!! WOOT!!! Other than that, I'll probably bring whatever else I'm actively working on by then. As far as current projects, that's going to be a Commodore SX-64, a TRS-80 Model 4P, or a Commodore VIC-20. If I'm a real glutton for punishment, I might bring my Macintosh Color Classic that has had me stumped for months now. Additionally, I'll have my EEPROM burning machine w/some blanks, various parts, and tools including a desoldering iron. I'll also bring a nice oscilloscope. Looking forward to it! -Todd

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hard drive and floppy disk emulator
by Rolf Levenbach 04 Jun '16

04 Jun '16

A MFM & RLL hard drive and floppy disk emulator on eBay: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/-/301968006996 Rolf

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Good source for eproms?
by Herb Johnson 03 Jun '16

03 Jun '16

My comments and questions. Dave McGuire posted: > They can be erased with X-rays. EPROMs were originally designed to be > erased that way. There are problems with that approach, however. (hence > the move to UV). The notion that one can plop non-quartz PROMs under an X-ray and erase them, has been mentioned here, and elsewhere for decades, as a "could be done". But I'm not aware this has been, or is, any sort of common practice, much less an established procedure. I'm aware of 'theory', I know physics. I'm talking accepted practice. Wikipedia....EPROM...citation 6...is a May 10 1971 article from Electonics Magazine by Dov Frohman, who apparently "invented the EPROM". Google..... http://www.jmargolin.com/patents/eprom.htm references the article, and interviews the author later in 1993. The text say Intel shipped that 1702 EPROM "with a window because X-rays ....disrupted the structure" of the chip. The Web page has some details. I"ve not (yet) read the article, or checked the patent. This suggests that X-rays were not a production nor a customer practice. so: Can you cite a reference I can find also, that shows a product announcement, or a production data sheet, that says specifically that a customer can erase a specific PROM product using X-rays of a particular wavelength and energy for a particular period of time? That's how UV exposure is cited (when it was cited in detail) in data sheets. I'll grant the possibility this occurred for some very early product, some early development in the semiconductor lab, or some military or other specialized application. I'll grant some hackers could borrow a dental X-ray and erase an EPROM - did they do subsequent life-tests? Even that description would be of interest. Thank you. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Personal ebay score
by Evan Koblentz 03 Jun '16

03 Jun '16

Yesterday I was poking around ebay. Stumbled onto something awesome and it only cost me twelve dollars. I'm a very happy camper. :) Will reveal it when it's in my possession... < insert diabolical laughter >

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HP 1650/1651 Logic Analyzer Disk Images
by Herb Johnson 03 Jun '16

03 Jun '16

http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/386intel/beech_logic.html I have a 1650B, and my Web site shows my colleague Bill Beech and his use of a 1650B on S-100 systems. He'll appreciate that Z80 disassembler, thanks. Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preservation of 1970's computing email: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com alternate: herbjohnson ATT retrotechnology DOTT info

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HP 1650/1651 Logic Analyzer Disk Images
by Systems Glitch 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

I picked up a HP 1650A Logic Analyzer at a surplus auction a few months ago, and finally got around to imaging the disks. In addition to the OS and demo disks, I have what is apparently a somewhat rare/sought after copy of the Z80 Inverse Assembler. This lets you disassemble Z80 code right in the logic analyzer. All images were captured with Dave Dunfield's ImageDisk. I've uploaded them here: http://filedump.glitchwrks.com/software/hp_1650/ You should be able to write them out with ImageDisk on a DOS PC with a regular 1.44 MB PC floppy drive. They're double density disks of course. If you have one of these analyzers and can't write disks for some reason, PM me and I can probably mail you some. Thanks, Jonathan

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Repair TRS-80 pocket computer screen
by Christopher Blackmon 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

Does anyone know how to repair/replace the screen on a TRS-80 pocket computer? It looks like the edges of the screen are bleeding ink or something. Christopher.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Repair TRS-80 pocket computer screen
by Jonathan Gevaryahu 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

Bleeding 'ink', like a black ring which is converging toward the center of the lcd? or squiggly lines of black 'ink' coming from one edge? In either case that's irrepairable, you're going to need a replacement lcd for that. -- Jonathan Gevaryahu jgevaryahu(a)gmail.com jgevaryahu(a)hotmail.com

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TEI MCS-CPU 8080 CPU Board
by Herb Johnson 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

Bill Degnan wrote: > I wonder if this is the board Roger Amidon wrote the Apple Monitor for? No, he wrote it for the MITS Altair he bought. Roger said so, in a panel at VCF-East some years ago. You may be confusing "TDL" with "TEI". For TEI docs, I only have docs for the mainframe. Jonathan AKA System Glitch wrote: > I noticed that the layout of the basic CPU function (excluding the add-ons) > is *very* similar to the IMSAI MPU-A. Your Web page is a good examination. It notes even board-trace similarities. It's likely TEI copied the IMSAI and then added their own features. Lots of copying went on in the S-100 era, down to replicating boards completely. If it's that similar, then producing a schematic may be a matter of verifying the board with ohmmeter following (and correcting) the MPU-A schematic. Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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Workbench from hell
by Mike Loewen 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

Dave McGuire, someone snuck into your shop. :-) https://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/williams-workbench.jpg Mike Loewen mloewen(a)cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

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Workbench from hell
by Herb Johnson 02 Jun '16

02 Jun '16

Actual facts about the bench and person in question: http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/an-analog-life-remembering-jim-william… https://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyohm/6780036836/in/album-721576294448252… "Workmates respected Jim's privacy and would never dream of taking something from his workspace, in part fostered by Jim's desire to make his workspace look as uninviting as possible." - from the exhibit Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net

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OT?: PCMCIA Network cards
by Kelly Leavitt 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

Anyone need these? I've a drawer full of miscellaneous ones. Will bring next time if anyone wants. 3Com and DLink mostly. Kelly

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Jim Williams' lab
by Jack Rubin 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

That ain't messy, that's ANALOGUE!!

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We're getting a CompuPro
by Evan Koblentz 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

There is a nice donation arriving in a couple of weeks. As described by the owner: "Godbout CompuPro S-100 bus CP/M-80 microcomputer with dual 8" floppy disc drives, quite a few discs with software, some docs, a Hazeltine Esprit CRT/keyboard terminal, and Xerox Diablo daisy-wheel printer" This is a historic system and I remember Herb showed one a few VCF Easts ago.

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TEI MCS-CPU 8080 CPU Board
by Systems Glitch 01 Jun '16

01 Jun '16

I picked up a TEI MCS-CPU from Jeff Galinat at VCF East XI this year. It's an 8080 CPU board with onboard power-on jump, power-on reset, and MWRITE generation. Jeff didn't have any documentation on it, and I've been unable to find any online, other than mentions in sales literature. I took a little time tonight to go through it, figure out the onboard functions, and get it fully operational: http://www.glitchwrks.com/2016/05/31/tei-8080-cpu Neat little board, though TEI expected you to use the extra features (power-on jump, power-on reset, and MWRITE) in an all-or-nothing fashion: jumper J1 enables or disables everything. I wanted power-on jump and power-on reset, but didn't need MWRITE since I was using a front panel with it, so the writeup includes the trace cut modification I used to disable it. There are convenient vias on either side of the cut, so you can add in socket pins for a removable jumper. The writeup also documents the function of the switches for setting the power-on jump address. As I was working on this board, I noticed that the layout of the basic CPU function (excluding the add-ons) is *very* similar to the IMSAI MPU-A. Can anyone comment on this? Thanks, Jonathan

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Old Apple & other Computers - Free
by Greg Acker 31 May '16

31 May '16

I am moving west and have more old computers than I can take with me. If anyone wants old Apple Macs , SE, Performa, etc, a IIGS, and some Commodore 64 & other stuff free, call me at 724-992-4302. I need rid of it this week and I don’t want to toss it. Please come and rescue it. Greg Acker Merce, PA

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IEEE coverage
by Evan Koblentz 31 May '16

31 May '16

Remember this online Spectrum article from VCF East last month? http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/geek-life/history/theyre-alive-vintage-c… I'm told it is in the current print edition, too. Cool!

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Wish me luck
by Connor Krukosky 31 May '16

31 May '16

I'm currently packing to drive up to Poughkeepsie today, I start at IBM tomorrow. Wish me luck! I'll try to make it to next weekend's workshop I will be in Boston all of next week for a conference so hopefully I have some down time, also maybe me and Ian can carpool :) -Connor Krukosky

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WTB: MOS6560 / VIC Chip or Parts VIC-20
by Todd George 31 May '16

31 May '16

Need a MOS6560 to replace a defective one in a VIC-20. Additionally would consider a parts/ugly VIC-20 with a 6560 that has a fighting chance of working. I can desolder and all that. I've seen the dealer on eBay and am choosing to spend my money elsewhere (in the community). Hit me up off-list if you can help. :-) -Todd

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