- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] How To Geek article on floppy data recovery
by Herb Johnson 20 May '20

20 May '20

Reply to David Gesswein: Sorry for the delay in reply, I work offline from this discussion group, and don't read it daily as most do. I always appreciate the informed views of my good friend David. Especially so in this case because, as he points out, he is a producer of similar tech, for MFM hard drive data recovery *and* emulation. He knows more than I. I acknowledge the value of lower cost. But it creates a market where more costly solutions are discouraged. He discusses cost AND time, as user issues. Some people give up their time, to save costs; some give up costs to save their time. But more buy cheap, and sometimes audience matters. A consequence of inexpensive items is that most do not stick around long. that's why I brought it up! But others can try to recreate them when they aren't available (reliably). Thus the "blue pill" Greaseweasel saga, seems to be, to either build a more reliable one (use the proper CPU chip); or to build one on a better CPU (to move forward). My thanks to Jeff Jonas for passing along some Facebook/greaseweasel info, that is where they congregate. "the projects don't cooperate" is a problem, as David describes. I agree. Developers tend to redevelop rather than rework. Also, old stuff gets lost, or may be hard to recover for redevelopment. This is true in most technology; it's ironically true in vintage computing, but thankfully not always. "most of the value is in the decoding code". The value is split, between the enabling hardware to do the read; and the enabling software to decode the sampled flux-patterns. The historic example of the Catweasel series, is that the hardware producers did not make popular decoding software; others did. I did not determine if the FOUR or FIVE developers of Catweasel decoders, cooperated much or not. Each grabbed some piece of vintage computing disks by brand & model (TRS-80 for instance). http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/s_drives_howto.html#catweasel "I image with real hardware when I have it". Yes, that was the ultimate solution for Intel M2FM disks, which at one point were imaged by Catweasel. The images were reproduced as floppies, and read again on Intel systems! I'll contact David privately for more information about his imaged disks, to route his results to active INtel Multibus owners. http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/m2fm.html Of course, we in vintage computing are generally interested in "real hardware". But I get pushback often, in advocating use of period PC-compatibles to image conventional diskettes (made with Intel/NEC/WD floppy disk controller ICs) with Dunfield IMAGEDSK tools. "I hate old PC's!" is the most terse way to describe that. Thus the value of microcontroller based floppy drive emulators and floppy recovery hardware. Well, each of us chooses our areas of vintage interest. ---------------- I had private discussions of the topic, with "Gordon S." AKA gsteemso. He was of a mind, that some kind of vintage-hardware solution for floppy recovery had some merits. I think it will be a challenge to make such a thing at the price of a few tens of dollars, like the other microcontroller solutions. But a solution like the Greaseweasel is a $200 built-for-you solution; some floppy emulators sell for that price. So: a re-vintaged solution is conceivable, but I don't think it would be simple. At this point, the discussion is a matter of specifics and techie details. A little too much so, for general email discussion lists like this, I believe, and the thread seems to have died down. If that's because I didn't reply and took some discussion privately, my apologies. I hope those participating were informed as I was, and those interested can find more information as they see fit. Regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by Bill Degnan 20 May '20

20 May '20

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:47 PM Jeffrey Golas via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Bill, let me know how you make out but it looks like Duane gave you the > info on the Fanuc model. > > Duane I saw one of those cases on ebay and thought it was cool! If you > have notes/info on the 2702 please pass them along, as its likely the same > as the 2701. > > On the 2701, one side of the ribbon connector is almost completely ground, > on the other side pins 1-5 appear to be control (possibly outputs like > strobe), the next 8 pins are bits, the next 3 may be Fwd/reverse control, > one after that is ground and not sure about the last 3-4. This is a 40 pin > connector. > > Mine has a seperate screw terminal on the opposite side for power, > although it may take 3 voltages, not sure. Motor is 12v but judging by the > MASSIVE ceramic resistor it may be set up for 24v. > > Jeff > > Jeff, I have everything I need now to get started but I still need to look up how to power the reader hardware definitively. I see where the +5V power input goes. The two power input leads labeled "100B" and"100A". Here is a pic of the board I need to power: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-FANUC-Tape-Recorder-Board-A20B-0004-0280-Used-2… Who here specifically has worked with the FANUC A20B-0004 reader or something FANUc from the early 80's? This FANUC 6 manual, which includes this model of tape reader as part of a larger system, references the part numbers found on the reader http://cncmanual.com/download/1646/ >From the manual (starting from page 320 or so) it looks like inputs 100A and 100B are both/shared (?) 24V inbound, and the 24V DC is brought down to 18V (?). 1Amp. I will document the process onto vintagecomputer.net once I have some progress reading tapes. I am thinking I should attach a 24VDC and 5V DC to the board. Bill

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Re: Okuma Reader
by Jeffrey Golas 19 May '20

19 May '20

Interesting, so thats a slightly different design with mostly the same stuff. I’m working on mine and it seems to function with ~18v and 5v, but the motor control seems to be scatterbrained, sometimes it powers up stuck, other times it picks a direction and runs. I also notice only one led in the array is lit up, but since they seem to be in series im suspecting theyre all infrared. Just brought in the oscope to confirm signals. Attaching a pic of mine. Jeff > On May 19, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Duane Craps <duaneb.craps(a)cox.net> wrote: > > Jeff, > > Attached is Photos of my reader project. I can control it from the Arduino serial monitor or the front panel switches. The data scrolls into the serial monitor's input window, and I cut and paste it into a file. There is a similar unit on ebay that has a metal case vice the nice plastic on on my unit. Either it was an earlier model or someone made a replacement after the plastic one was broken. They were used in machine shops and the case looks home made.. > > MY notes: > > PIN 1-8 -- Bits 0-7 > > Pin 11 -- strobe > > pin 20 -- run > > Pin 13 -- reverse > > I put a mean well +24/+5 volt supply And A Teensy micro controler in the case. Thought it might have been too much to run the logic from the USB > > -- > Duane Craps > sdɐɹɔ ǝuɐnp > > <20180912_105647.jpg> > <20181012_115146.jpg>

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Re: Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by Jeffrey Golas 19 May '20

19 May '20

Bill, let me know how you make out but it looks like Duane gave you the info on the Fanuc model. Duane I saw one of those cases on ebay and thought it was cool! If you have notes/info on the 2702 please pass them along, as its likely the same as the 2701. On the 2701, one side of the ribbon connector is almost completely ground, on the other side pins 1-5 appear to be control (possibly outputs like strobe), the next 8 pins are bits, the next 3 may be Fwd/reverse control, one after that is ground and not sure about the last 3-4. This is a 40 pin connector. Mine has a seperate screw terminal on the opposite side for power, although it may take 3 voltages, not sure. Motor is 12v but judging by the MASSIVE ceramic resistor it may be set up for 24v. Jeff

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by Neil Cherry 18 May '20

18 May '20

Not yet, I have one but I haven't found the time to figure it out. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by Duane Craps 18 May '20

18 May '20

Jeff, The Fanuc unit I have is an old pinch roller unit with a 50 pin connector. It Uses +24 V0lts and +5 for logic 24 volts seems to be standard for machine tool servos. Pins 23-24 are +24 Volts 22-21 are +5 Volts Pins 1-8 are Bits 0-7 Pin 9 is the Data strobe I think pin 10 is the run/stop but It had a manual switch on the unit and used that I have pin 12 written as ground but am not sure as I jumpered to a capacitor on the board The control signal is high-active so it should take off running with the supplies energizes The other UNIT is an sanyo demki 2702 in an OKUMA case that had a round connector to plug into the machine tool. I put in power supplies and aTeency Arduino clont to convert it to USB It has a standard 44 pin edge connector on the logic board. It was on EBAY and I noticed that no one was bidding so I got it for $4.50 I have some pictures but I dont think the list allows. If you want the signals on the 2702 board let me know. Good luck. On 5/18/2020 12:44 PM, Jeff G via vcf-midatlantic wrote: -- Duane Craps sdɐɹɔ ǝuɐnp On 5/18/2020 12:44 PM, Jeff G via vcf-midatlantic wrote: -- DuaneCraps sdɐɹɔ ǝuɐnp

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by Bill Degnan 18 May '20

18 May '20

Jeff, I have one coming to me in the mail today...FANUC A860 with a A20B-0004-0270 controller, so I am right there with you. I have found that what you need to dump tapes from one of these is a "behind the tape reader" (BTR) that attaches to the punch / OUT port of the reader. You can buy a used BTR compatible with the reader or create your own with an arduino. In my case the DOSTEK-440A appears to be the ticket, but there are others out there. New ones are pricey so I can see why people make them with Arduino's. Reader --> punch port--> BTR --> PC RS232 port. There are a few vendors out there but they're not too helpful to the vintage computing enthusiast IMHO....so I learned everything I needed to through a few hours of Google. DOSTEK is a program that runs on the PC that can manipulate tape images, but I am sure TeraTerm and a HEX editor would also work. Bill On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:45 PM Jeff G via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Hey all, some of you may have grabbed one (or more) of the paper tape > readers readily available on ebay that likely have come from CNC machines. > I was just wondering if anyone has actually made these work? > > It seems many of these have a standard pinout/spec depending on what CNC > controller they were connected to.I had one I bought some time ago, a > Sanyo-Denki 2401 model, and it seems this was often used on a Yasnac 2000G > controller, and has a 40pin ribbon cable connection, whereas others use a > 50pin ribbon cable (on Fanuc controllers). > > Just wondering if anyone has ever gotten one of these running, or perhaps > knows anything about them? I spent a couple hours with mine yesterday and > determined most of the pinout, but I don't know what voltages the power > input should be. > > I have a bunch of notes and the data side is relatively simple, its the > control side I'm struggling to sort out. > > Jeff aka Bags >

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Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by Jeff G 18 May '20

18 May '20

Hey all, some of you may have grabbed one (or more) of the paper tape readers readily available on ebay that likely have come from CNC machines. I was just wondering if anyone has actually made these work? It seems many of these have a standard pinout/spec depending on what CNC controller they were connected to.I had one I bought some time ago, a Sanyo-Denki 2401 model, and it seems this was often used on a Yasnac 2000G controller, and has a 40pin ribbon cable connection, whereas others use a 50pin ribbon cable (on Fanuc controllers). Just wondering if anyone has ever gotten one of these running, or perhaps knows anything about them? I spent a couple hours with mine yesterday and determined most of the pinout, but I don't know what voltages the power input should be. I have a bunch of notes and the data side is relatively simple, its the control side I'm struggling to sort out. Jeff aka Bags

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OSI Floppy diagnostics
by David Gesswein 17 May '20

17 May '20

At the last workshop my machine was having problems with B drive and two other OSI machines people brought the floppy drives weren't working at all. I didn't find any floppy diagnostics for the OSI so I wrote on. http://www.pdp8online.com/osi/osi-floppy-test.shtml With some floppy testing info here http://www.pdp8online.com/osi/floppy-repair.shtml If you try it let me know how it goes. Bill got his machine working before I finished this. Jeff, hows your machine doing?

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] LINC-EIGHT pictures
by Michael Thompson 17 May '20

17 May '20

> > > From: David Gesswein <djg(a)pdp8online.com> > Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] LINC-EIGHT pictures > Some pictures are here. > > http://www.pdp8online.com/linc-eight/linc-eight.shtml > > Nothing I have seen looks too bad but will still take a lot of time to > go through and get working. > The foam between the FlipChip handles keeps the air from the cooling fans flowing between the FlipChips. Our PDP-9 has the same. We had one flexprint cable to the front panel of the PDP-9 that looked like your flexprint cables. I replaced the cable with modern ribbon cable and it works fine. -- Michael Thompson

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