- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

www locks out older browsers
by Herb Johnson 15 Nov '18

15 Nov '18

> Bill Degnan billdegnan at gmail.com > Mon Nov 12 12:31:44 EST 2018 > > I have been meaning to set up a simple proxy for older machines that don't > use SSL at all, or SSH. Just have not gotten around to it. Not too > complicated I don't think but I have not done it yet so I can't say with > 100% certainty until I do. When I do I will make the service available > somehow. > Bill "Older machines" apparently includes Windows XP. I had the same problem, last time I ran a few recently-older systems with XP on them. I gave up at that point, figured it was some kind of XP limitation. I know from nothings about networking protocols. But this matters a bit, there's still commercial stuff (point of sale, business systems, embedded stuff) still running XP or Win2K, etc. Bill, my bet is any proxy you'd come up with, would run on a Rasp Pi. just a convenient platform. Even those have a serial port, for some really ancient system (say Win 3.1/WFW). If you come up with something, put the word out. Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Godbout Static (RAM) But Not Lost
by Herb Johnson 14 Nov '18

14 Nov '18

I got the news about Bill Godbout from Evan, a few days ago. Today I got a request from a reporter/blogger for a Godbout catalog image. I don't have any of his early catalogs; there are of course magazine ad-pages from Godbout. Can anyone share a PDF of one of his catalogs? What I sent, was the cover shot of the 1987 Dec Morrow Owners Review, a magazine published to support the Morrow MD series desktop CP/M systems. Did ja know, Morrow produced real PC's? We mostly remember his S-100 cards, and older engineers remember his sales of components before that. I recently obtained a Morrow MD-15 system, with a pile of Morrow MOR magazines. I'm trying to get the hard-drive running, but it boots 128K CP/M right now. I'll show it on my Web site in December. Morrow also co-authored the IEEE-696 specification; essentially the Morrow/Compupro S-100 bus architecture. 16 bit data, 24 bit address - enough to run 386-class systems into the 1990's. A lot of MS-DOS development work was done with S-100 systems; video processing systems at TV stations too. That bus did good work for a long time. Morrow and Compupro S-100 cards were well built, well documented; most can still run today. A dual 8085/88 CPU can run MS-DOS and two flavors of CP/M. No small feat in 1981 or thereabouts. Those cards were produced before MS-DOS existed; designers had 8088's ready to use but no CP/M to run them, people like Morrow and others. This forced the creation of a DOS which became MS-DOS, a story often told. So, there's a fundamental reason to remember Bill Godbout, and the work he and his cohorts did. They worked at a time when resources were SCARCE, not abundant. There were no computers to help design other computers (unless you borrowed time from a university). I doubt most Morrow hardware was designed on CAD PC layout systems; most microcomputer boards were hand-taped, red and blue tape for two-sided boards! Chips were not cheap, PC boards were not cheap to produce - no offshore boards in the 1970's! And most people and businesses weren't wealthy in the 1970's. IBM sold PC's in the 80's to the Fortune 500, the 500 biggest companies in America (the world, same thing). That was much easier after Godbout et all did the groundwork. The microcomputer revolution was a bottom-up proposition, not a top-down. Bill Godbout and his colleagues, remind us how to do HARD work, start from LIMITED resources, to build an industry, and to make a market, from near-zero. There will be another time, when we will have to do that again, start from little. Do you think 21st century engineers and programmers, know how to do that? This is why history of technology matters; to preserve how they did, what they did. Do you think laptops and smart phones will run 30, 40 years from now? Or be repairable when they aren't? Another lesson to preserve. And that's my long view. Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Anyone interested in an Atari2600 and some games?
by Neil Cherry 14 Nov '18

14 Nov '18

IXR has a 2600 and some games available. If you are interested please let me know. I'd say it's a 3rd generation of the console. Reminds me of the style of the 7800. Thanks -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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AIM-65 Like Clone Project
by Henry S. Courbis 13 Nov '18

13 Nov '18

Greetings and Salutations People Of The List: I hobbyist recently contacted me about a project they are considering which is a clone of the AIM-65. However I'm mostly useless to help since I have little idea how the system works, or should work. Sure I can help clone it, but that's the "simple" part. Being able to check if it's working is kind of where the magic happens. Putting parts on a board... not so much. For a starting point they have an old unit which doesn't work. We found this link for schematics: http://www.originalwoodworks.com/aim65/ They have checked the PSU and some obvious things like this, as well as replaced some of the standard ICs which were suspected to be troublesome. We don't have any ROM code to validate the ROMs to or to burn new ones. And we're both kind of in the dark as to how the system should even work, which is kind of the fun of this adventure. If you can't break a toe and bruise a shin while stumbling around in the dark for the light switch, then what real fun is it? So anyone have any advice or feedback as to getting the system to at least want to seem alive, what known trouble ares there are, to yell at us for being silly geese, etc? Please email us offlist (his email to CC: tld10091 AT gmail.com) Thanks! Henry S. Courbis Office Toll Free: (800) REACTIVE (732-2848) Office/Mobile Direct: (856) 779-1900 www.ReActiveMicro.com <http://www.ReactiveMicro.com> - Sales, Support, and News, Our Headquarters on the Internet ReActiveMicro.com/wiki - Support, Software, Manuals, and History. Create your own page today! Facebook.com/reactivemicrousa - Our Social Media Outlet and Support

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Workshop Report, System Source, Hunt Valley, MD, Sun Nov 11th
by svcatitc＠aol.com 13 Nov '18

13 Nov '18

All; I figured I would fill us all in on how it went on Sun: Due to family responsibilities, I got there about 1pm. Johathan Sturges pulled into the lot the same time as I did and we commented on "timing is everything". A good crowd. The usual suspects were there. Bill DegnanBill DromgooleDuane CrapsAlex JacocksDave Gesswein Along with a bunch I did not know because of residential distance and being a semi-newbee to the group, however we were all friends at that point working on our hobby. Bill D handed me an Epson dot matrix printer that I plan to use for the "soda can crusher" project I am working on for East.ON that note, I started resurrecting an IBM 5170 '286 for the processor to control the testing machine. I got the machine taken out of it's stock chassis, and mounted it in it's new all Plexiglas ATX case, to display the early days of the 286 and technicals. It booted to BASIC the first shot! Yeah! Boy did I forget a lot since the days of fooling with this stuff on a daily basis. Jonathan S found a link to the SETUP program to talk to the BIOS of the above referenced machine. So that will help a bunch. Duane Craps was showing me the backplane of the UNIVAC 1218 and how intricate the snap in pins were used for the interconnects. I remembered using such connectors on MUX chassis when I worked at EAI in the early 1980's. Dave G was working on some PDP model. Jonathan was working on a Tandy 100 (I believe, don't quote me on that). Alex J can fill us in on what he was doing, and what some of the other members were working on. Lastly, Bob Roswell gave the interested a tour of his museum. What a class act! He has already positioned some of the racks of his VAX 9000 in the museum. At the end of the day, a bunch of us went to a local pizza joint for dinner to wrap up the festivities. Many Thanks go out to Alex J for organizing the event. Greater Many Thanks go out to Bob Roswell for hosting us in his fantastic museum setting. Thank you to all who attended. It was great fun. Bill Inderrieden

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Godbout Static (RAM) But Not Lost
by Brian L. Stuart 13 Nov '18

13 Nov '18

On Tue, 11/13/18, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > There wasn't much online about Bill Godbout so I posted a few things here > for those who did not know of Bill Godbout and his contribution to > computing. This is definitely a great loss for the microcomputing community. I bought a 4K memory board kit (similar to the one on your page) from him back around '77 or so. I learned a lot from that board. This may be a dumb question, but I've always wondered if I've been pronouncing his name correctly all these years. Is it pronounced the way it appears to be spelled, "god-bought" or does it come from a language where the 't' would be silent or some other variation? TIA, BLS

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Godbout Static (RAM) But Not Lost
by Andrew Molloy 13 Nov '18

13 Nov '18

Sad news for sure. I remember hearing him speak at VCF West in 2000. As he started, he said something to the effect of, "Nobody here better be recording anything I see or I will take out my revolver and shoot them!" I slowly reached into my bag and pressed pause on my minidisc recorder. :) Andy On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 8:35 AM Bob Aviles via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Sorry to hear the news, rest in peace. > > Bobby > On Tuesday, November 13, 2018, 12:31:44 AM EST, Evan Koblentz via > vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > >> There wasn't much online about Bill Godbout so I posted a few things > >> here > >> for those who did not know of Bill Godbout and his contribution to > >> computing. > >> > >> http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=733 > >> > >> Bill > >> > > The article says he died November 11th, but according to the poster on > > alt.folklore.computers he died November 8th... > > > 8th is correct. I had email communication with two of his relatives today. > > >

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Godbout Static (RAM) But Not Lost
by Bill Degnan 13 Nov '18

13 Nov '18

There wasn't much online about Bill Godbout so I posted a few things here for those who did not know of Bill Godbout and his contribution to computing. http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=733 Bill

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] vcf-midatlantic Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12
by Bill Degnan 12 Nov '18

12 Nov '18

I have been meaning to set up a simple proxy for older machines that don't use SSL at all, or SSH. Just have not gotten around to it. Not too complicated I don't think but I have not done it yet so I can't say with 100% certainty until I do. When I do I will make the service available somehow. Bill On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM <vcf-midatlantic-request(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Send vcf-midatlantic mailing list submissions to > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.vcfed.org/mailman/listinfo/vcf-midatlantic > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > vcf-midatlantic-request(a)lists.vcfed.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > vcf-midatlantic-owner(a)lists.vcfed.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of vcf-midatlantic digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Vintage Server Racks FS or trade (Jeffrey Golas) > 2. Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 (Jeffrey Brace) > 3. Re: Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 (Tony Bogan) > 4. www locks out older browsers (Jim Scheef) > 5. Re: www locks out older browsers (Sentrytv) > 6. Re: www locks out older browsers (David Gesswein) > 7. Re: www locks out older browsers (Ethan O'Toole) > 8. Re: www locks out older browsers (Jim Scheef) > 9. Re: Hello Introduction (Drew Notarnicola) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 15:47:49 -0500 > From: Jeffrey Golas <jeffg(a)junknet.net> > To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > Subject: Vintage Server Racks FS or trade > Message-ID: <FD99E9BD-9D65-4DEA-9D92-506D5144FD36(a)junknet.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I have a vintage 1970s (or 60s?) server cabinet for sale. Good shape, blue > filler panel on front and white panels on sides. > > Round hole, front panel can be removed. Breaker at bottom can be used as a > power switch and is accesible from the front. > > Note that this is the rack only (anything else in pics is not for sale). > > Located in Blue Bell, PA (outside Philly) Best offer or trade for an > interesting terminal or maybe s-100 boards? > > Pics here: > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cvohi2n8oog78tz/AACZBt9LiZPgTA-CZbGjD2dCa?dl=0 > > Jeff > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:01:54 -0500 > From: Jeffrey Brace <jeffrey(a)vcfed.org> > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, 2018 > Message-ID: > < > CALWfZA+QaYcA8KraETqrL6irK-z7rsVckY6MTRTPCN4gEoSk8g(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Good and steady busy day at the museum. About 2 dozen visitors in total > today. In groups between 1 to 5 spread out throughout the day. Some of it > was because of some World War I event in 9032-A, but mostly it was because > it is cold day and this time of year things start to pick up again as > people look for indoor things to do. > > Lots of nice visitors with medium to high interest. Some really knew their > stuff. > > > > -- > ========================================= > Jeff Brace > Vice President > Vintage Computer Federation > > -- > ========================================= > Jeff Brace > Vice President > Vintage Computer Federation > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:07:49 -0500 > From: Tony Bogan <thebogans(a)mac.com> > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Museum Report 18-11-11 November 11, > 2018 > Message-ID: <5423C908-ADCB-4325-A943-B0216590E4C0(a)mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Glad to hear it was such a good day!! > > I forgot today was the 100th anniversary of Armistice Day. Wanted to go up > to IA for that but got stuck at work darnit!! > > Was the day of the Armistice with Germany (11am on the 11th day of the > 11th month of 1918) which marked the end of all hostilities between the > Allies and Germany. > > Tony > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 01:08:43 -0500 > From: "Jim Scheef" <js(a)sdf.org> > To: "'vcf-midatlantic'" <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers > Message-ID: <000001d47a4e$2d55ea30$8801be90$(a)sdf.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hello all, > > After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let it > sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So > what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some > investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to > require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that > vintage browsers return an error similar to ?cannot establish secure > connection?. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites > have locked out many vintage machines. > > So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser > that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4 > should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to > include TLS 1.2. > > The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the web > (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it. > > Any thoughts? > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:09:15 -0500 > From: Sentrytv <sentrytv(a)yahoo.com> > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers > Message-ID: <C464DEB7-3DE0-40BA-94EA-2D1F8AC432BD(a)yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I had a Mac G5 tower that was running 10.58. > I found a Mozilla browser for this OS and it was working pretty well. > > When I sold the tower about six months ago, > of course the websites were working well. > If I find the link for it I will post it. > > Mike R. > > Sent from: > My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > > > On Nov 12, 2018, at 1:08 AM, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let > it sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So > what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some > investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to > require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that > vintage browsers return an error similar to ?cannot establish secure > connection?. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites > have locked out many vintage machines. > > > > So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser > that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4 > should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to > include TLS 1.2. > > > > The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the > web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it. > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > Jim > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:21:13 -0500 > From: David Gesswein <djg(a)pdp8online.com> > To: Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers > Message-ID: <20181112122112.GA20797(a)hugin2.pdp8online.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I assume you could run a local proxy that converts. It breaks the end > to end security though. Businesses use these proxys for monitoring. > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 01:08:43AM -0500, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic > wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let > it sit for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So > what changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some > investigation I realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to > require TLS 1.2, mostly because it actually works. The result is that > vintage browsers return an error similar to ???cannot establish secure > connection???. Forcing SSL by refusing to connect on port 80, these sites > have locked out many vintage machines. > > > > So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser > that runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4 > should run on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to > include TLS 1.2. > > > > The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the > web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it. > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > Jim > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:26:43 -0500 (EST) > From: Ethan O'Toole <telmnstr(a)757.org> > To: David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic > <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers > Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1811121026100.26294(a)users.757.org> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > >> The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the > web (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it. > > Maybe a proxy could be built that handles satisfying the TLS 1.2 then > unwraps it for the old systems. > > - Ethan > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:16:53 -0500 > From: "Jim Scheef" <js(a)sdf.org> > To: "'vcf-midatlantic'" <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers > Message-ID: <003c01d47aa3$22f3adc0$68db0940$(a)sdf.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > David, > I first posed this question on the Vintage Apple Macintosh Enthusiasts > group > on FB. Jason Duerstock commented: "It's not trivial, but I believe you're > looking for something like this: > > https://serverfault.com/questions/822453/proxy-server-accepting-tls-1-0-and- > calling-tls-1-2-downstream > <https://serverfault.com/questions/822453/proxy-server-accepting-tls-1-0-and…> > Proxy server accepting TLS 1.0 and calling TLS > 1.2 downstream" > The documentation > https://mitmproxy.readthedocs.io/en/v2.0.2/features/reverseproxy.html is > easier to read. > Seeing that we were quite happy using these sites without any encryption, > the loss of end to end security seems inconsequential. > The key words in Jason's comment were "It's not trivial..." > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On > Behalf > Of > > David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic > > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 7:21 AM > > To: Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > Cc: David Gesswein <djg(a)pdp8online.com> > > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] www locks out older browsers > > > > I assume you could run a local proxy that converts. It breaks the end to > end > > security though. Businesses use these proxys for monitoring. > > > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 01:08:43AM -0500, Jim Scheef via vcf-midatlantic > > wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > > > After playing with an eMac running OS X 10.3 several months back, I let > it sit > > for a few months. Now it can no longer open most common websites. So what > > changed while the machine was not even plugged in? After some > investigation I > > realized that main-stream sites have changed their SSL to require TLS > 1.2, > mostly > > because it actually works. The result is that vintage browsers return an > error > > similar to ???cannot establish secure connection???. Forcing SSL by > refusing to > > connect on port 80, these sites have locked out many vintage machines. > > > > > > So, what can be done? The obvious solution is to find a modern browser > that > > runs on your vintage OS. This may require an OS upgrade (OS X 10.4 should > run > > on the eMac) which allows running TenFourFox, which seems to include TLS > 1.2. > > > > > > The irony that in the name of security, the machine used to invent the > web > > (NeXT) may no longer be able to display it. > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:25:41 -0500 > From: Drew Notarnicola <drew.notarnicola(a)gmail.com> > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Hello Introduction > Message-ID: > <CAPP9A8GC7wxkvCF=O=+ > 30Ek_jw0vjZ0-uNOL1i0057EA4YBN8g(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hey Tom! Nice to see a new name around here. I'm not a ham but I am a > Radio Shack Model 100 fan, so if you ever want to talk about those I'm your > guy! What did you use yours for back in the day? > Drew > > On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 11:04 AM Tom McNicholas via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > Evan suggested I post a hello and background not sure of length or > detail > > is the norm,, so here goes > > Retired a few years ago but still on the board of directors after a 45 > > year stint with a local electronics manufacturing company doing DOD work. > > during the 45 years did everything from testing, QA, engineering and > plant > > manager Prior to the 45 year stint was in the USAF working on VHF, UHF > and > > teaching then a couple of DOD manufacturing companies working on SSB > > transmitters, Radar, Sonar and microwave., > > > > During the 70,s at work used the Apple II and later the Mac during the > > 80,ss and at that time started using the commodore 64 and Radio Shack 100 > > at home latter moving to the 128 and then building IBM clones from > parts > > bought at computer shows. Now all I do is just buy them ,too many as per > my > > wife. . > > > > Presently have a small collection of vintage computers around 25 which I > am > > sure is nothing compared to other members of the group. But I am looking > > forward to meeting others in the group who share my interest in vintage > > computers. > > > > My only other interests outside of family and grandchildren are short > wave > > radio and occasional riding on my Can Am trike. > > > > Regards > > Tom McNicholas > > Wall NJ > > > > > End of vcf-midatlantic Digest, Vol 6, Issue 12 > ********************************************** >

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Hello Introduction
by Tom McNicholas 12 Nov '18

12 Nov '18

Evan suggested I post a hello and background not sure of length or detail is the norm,, so here goes Retired a few years ago but still on the board of directors after a 45 year stint with a local electronics manufacturing company doing DOD work. during the 45 years did everything from testing, QA, engineering and plant manager Prior to the 45 year stint was in the USAF working on VHF, UHF and teaching then a couple of DOD manufacturing companies working on SSB transmitters, Radar, Sonar and microwave., During the 70,s at work used the Apple II and later the Mac during the 80,ss and at that time started using the commodore 64 and Radio Shack 100 at home latter moving to the 128 and then building IBM clones from parts bought at computer shows. Now all I do is just buy them ,too many as per my wife. . Presently have a small collection of vintage computers around 25 which I am sure is nothing compared to other members of the group. But I am looking forward to meeting others in the group who share my interest in vintage computers. My only other interests outside of family and grandchildren are short wave radio and occasional riding on my Can Am trike. Regards Tom McNicholas Wall NJ

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