- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] the binary programmer cartoon
by Jeffrey Jonas 09 Aug '17

09 Aug '17

re: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/209/503496984_bc43812ff6_o.jpg It's a Far Side style cartoon "real programmers code in binary" showing a fellow at a CRT displaying only ones and zeroes. The kybd has 3 keys: 0 1 enter I'm not amused, nor is anyone who uses front panels, whether toggle switched or pushbuttons. At least we "enter the program" in binary. Even Evan's doing that now! Some systems have pushbuttons that encourage "chording" in octal: the kembak, Univac, HP, etc. There's a reason all computers up to the 70s had huge front panels. The binary status REALLY MATTERED. -- Jeff Jonas

9 12

S100 hybrid IMSAI/MITs on Ebay
by william degnan 09 Aug '17

09 Aug '17

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Vintage-IMSAI-8080-Computer-Microcomputer-/192… Assuming this was assembled in the late 70's early 80's from parts of "older" machines. I am sure Herb would agree there were a lot more of these kinds of S-100 machines used. Most early "stock" S-100 systems were modified and did not survive into the 80's in their original stock configuration. I bet the person who buys this will take the parts and use them to "complete" other machines to return those to stock condition, destroying the historical evidence that most computers of the 70's were hacked. or paint the grey TAI chassis to make it blue. I do understand about the financial value incentive to buy/sell stock items, but historically there is a price to pay, lost knowledge. Bill

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Stuff for sale
by Douglas Crawford 09 Aug '17

09 Aug '17

The AppleColor monitor is claimed. ------------ I'll keep reposting an update list like this as we go: The projects have stacked up too high... so I'm lightening my inventory! These are being first offered to folks who can pick up at the workshop and to folks local to Pottstown PA for pickup. What doesn't sell now might be offered later for the next workshop or ebayed. Suggested retail prices are given, taking reasonable offers of course. Generally taking best offers, at my discretion. I might be persuaded to a cut additional break if you have a cool project purpose. Everything can be seen here: http://imgur.com/a/Mz4Cv General Past projects, restored: - Amiga 3000, working, boots off hard disk, with cleaned keyboard, and pregnant mouse. $550 - TRS-80 Model III badged 16k,but 48k installed, diskless model, works great, have loaded files through cassette port from wave player. $150 - TRS-80 Model III 48k, Empty drive bays, but has drive supports and untested drive power supply. $100 - Kaypro 10, working ST-225 drive installed and loaded with both Perfect Software and Micropro software suites, reproduction install floppies. $300 - Commodore 8032, very nice, Everything I could think of to test all worked. Tested IEEE port with PETDisk. Saves and loads from Cassette. Keyboard was restored with conductive coating on the plungers. $275 - PC Junior monitor, works end of cord is not factory (I got it that way :) ). Nice looking, not yellowed. $45 FREE Stuff: - TRS-80 Model IV shell- just case, tube and video. Video board may not work. (not shown in the photos. Its presentable.) FREE - Kaypro II shell: case, Kbd shell, tube, and power supply. No drives. FREE APPLE: Compact macs: all work: I powered them up, screen, kbd, mouse, tested that the floppies mount and read. - Macintosh SE, ADB II dbd, Bus II mouse, Nice, dual floppy with SCSI drive that all works, System 7 installed. Video caps replaced. $200 - Macintosh 512K, yellowed, Ext. Kbd, cord, and Mouse, case flaw on top over what is a hot spot of the video board. $200 - G4 PowerPC Desktop, 800Mhz single proc, kbd and mouse $10 - Apple Studio CRT Monitor (shown paired with the 800Mhz G4 demonstrating that it all works) $100 each - G4 Desktop 450Mhz Dual Proc, System unit only. Case doesn't latch but looks nice. Works. THINKPADS: All have bad batteries of course but they run, as seen in the IMGUR photos. - IBM Thinkpad 380-D Win95 Laptop, works, Screen has bad pixels on left side, CMOS battery dead. - IBM Thinkpad 600E Win98 - IBM Thinkpad iSeries 1420 Win98 Professional CMOS battery dead, burried deep inside I think. And for your listening pleasure while you restore stuff: - Polk Audio bookshelf speakers /************************************************************************** * In the batter's box * I may also be selling these items in the future but not committing to it. * Let me know if you have strong interest, don't ask me what I want for them- * tell me what they are worth TO YOU. (such a tease, I know) */ - Model IV, really nice one, NEED TO DELAY SELLING THIS at least UNTIL I get my 4D working. (seen in the main imgur) - Altos 580 CP/M MP/M Project. I have quite a bit of doc and disks for this. (seen in the main imgur) untested - DEC Rainbow project: See here: http://imgur.com/a/wHs4j rough - Amiga 4000 Works booting from floppy. http://imgur.com/a/YY6hK - Dual 8" floppy S-100 by Pegasis (Small time NJ S-100 board integrator)w/ rebadged (shoddilly) Televideo 925 Terminal. (seen in the main imgur) There is extensive documentation and working media for this. - SD Systems big hulking industrial S-100 system populated with complete SD System cards! http://imgur.com/a/4GNWB - AT&T / Teletype 5425 Terminal that goes with things like the ATT 3B computers. Very nice, works great. PS2 - IBM PS2 Model 77 486DX2 Desktop - IBM PS2 Model 30 286 Desktop - IBM PS2 Model 56 SX Desktop **************************************************************************

1 0

Stuff for sale
by Douglas Crawford 08 Aug '17

08 Aug '17

The projects have stacked up too high... so I'm lightening my inventory! These are being first offered to folks who can pick up at the workshop and to folks local to Pottstown PA for pickup. What doesn't sell now might be offered later for the next workshop or ebayed. Suggested retail prices are given, taking reasonable offers of course. Generally taking best offers, at my discretion. I might be persuaded to a cut additional break if you have a cool project purpose. Everything can be seen here: http://imgur.com/a/Mz4Cv General Past projects, restored: - Amiga 3000, working, boots off hard disk, with cleaned keyboard, and pregnant mouse. $550 - TRS-80 Model III badged 16k,but 48k installed, diskless model, works great, have loaded files through cassette port from wave player. $150 - TRS-80 Model III 48k, Empty drive bays, but has drive supports and untested drive power supply. $100 - Kaypro 10, working ST-225 drive installed and loaded with both Perfect Software and Micropro software suites, reproduction install floppies. $300 - Commodore 8032, very nice, Everything I could think of to test all worked. Tested IEEE port with PETDisk. Saves and loads from Cassette. Keyboard was restored with conductive coating on the plungers. $275 - PC Junior monitor, works end of cord is not factory (I got it that way :) ). Nice looking, not yellowed. $45 FREE Stuff: - TRS-80 Model IV shell- just case, tube and video. Video board may not work. (not shown in the photos. Its presentable.) FREE - Kaypro II shell: case, Kbd shell, tube, and power supply. No drives. FREE APPLE: Compact macs: all work: I powered them up, screen, kbd, mouse, tested that the floppies mount and read. - Macintosh SE, ADB II dbd, Bus II mouse, Nice, dual floppy with SCSI drive that all works, System 7 installed. Video caps replaced. $200 - Macintosh 512K, yellowed, Ext. Kbd, cord, and Mouse, case flaw on top over what is a hot spot of the video board. $200 - AppleColor 13" RGB Monitor, quite yellowed (introduced 1987 for $1,647!) $80 - G4 PowerPC Desktop, 800Mhz single proc, kbd and mouse $10 - Apple Studio CRT Monitor (shown paired with the 800Mhz G4 demonstrating that it all works) $100 each - G4 Desktop 450Mhz Dual Proc, System unit only. Case doesn't latch but looks nice. Works. THINKPADS: All have bad batteries of course but they run, as seen in the IMGUR photos. - IBM Thinkpad 380-D Win95 Laptop, works, Screen has bad pixels on left side, CMOS battery dead. - IBM Thinkpad 600E Win98 - IBM Thinkpad iSeries 1420 Win98 Professional CMOS battery dead, burried deep inside I think. And for your listening pleasure while you restore stuff: - Polk Audio bookshelf speakers /************************************************************************** * In the batter's box * I may also be selling these items in the future but not committing to it. * Let me know if you have strong interest, don't ask me what I want for them- * tell me what they are worth TO YOU. (such a tease, I know) */ - Model IV, really nice one, NEED TO DELAY SELLING THIS at least UNTIL I get my 4D working. (seen in the main imgur) - Altos 580 CP/M MP/M Project. I have quite a bit of doc and disks for this. (seen in the main imgur) untested - DEC Rainbow project: See here: http://imgur.com/a/wHs4j rough - Amiga 4000 Works booting from floppy. http://imgur.com/a/YY6hK - Dual 8" floppy S-100 by Pegasis (Small time NJ S-100 board integrator)w/ rebadged (shoddilly) Televideo 925 Terminal. (seen in the main imgur) There is extensive documentation and working media for this. - SD Systems big hulking industrial S-100 system populated with complete SD System cards! http://imgur.com/a/4GNWB - AT&T / Teletype 5425 Terminal that goes with things like the ATT 3B computers. Very nice, works great. PS2 - IBM PS2 Model 77 486DX2 Desktop - IBM PS2 Model 30 286 Desktop - IBM PS2 Model 56 SX Desktop **************************************************************************

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!)
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 08 Aug '17

08 Aug '17

Bob Applegate via vcf-midatlantic writes: >Just for reference, assembly language is still used quite a bit today in >the real world. ... >Knowing assembly is still a good skill to have. Hear, hear!

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!) (Jeffrey Jonas)
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 08 Aug '17

08 Aug '17

Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic writes: >My error on "real", Adam meant the old cliche "real programmers use >assembler". I apologize, I thought Adam was asserting that vintage >computing wasn't real when compared to day-job computing. Well, according to the book at least, they don't use Pascal! ;) >As for my 'dissing emulators. I have my priorities too: I'm preserving >hardware, because emulators make it easy to throw 'em out! And for >"circumstantial" reasons: my nuts-and-bolts BSEE for instance. It depends upon the emulator. FWIW, I have a laptop (HP Envy 17) which has 2 drive bays. One of its drives has Linux installed on it, the other drive has VMS. Yes, VMS. It boots up with a small stub program that loads Alpha virtualization (emulation) and then, boots the VMS image. Everything is as if it was running on a *real* Alpha. I can write Alpha assembler and debug it (Symbolic debugger or DELTA or XDELTA) just like on a real Alpha. I've used this for on-the-road development as well as for presentations because it is difficult to lug an Alpha system about (no Tadpole Laptop, albeit, I would like to find one). The only drawback is that the product is licensed via a small USB-dongle depriving me of one USB port of the laptop. Alpha virtualization: http://www.vax-alpha-emulation.com/p/emulation/alpha/

1 0

assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!) (Jeffrey Jonas)
by Herb Johnson 08 Aug '17

08 Aug '17

There's some irony in discussing the tedium of assembly language programming, by using (excuse me) the tedium of emails as a learning and describing tool. It's my bias, but the hardest way to learn something, is by having several people explain it, post streams of details, argue amongst each other in the process, get sidetracked, etc. I understand, that's the 21st century way; no insult, it's just not my 20th century way (or my textbook way, I was formally educated in computing). Look. The vintage basis for assembly-language programming, included the limited resources available to microprocessor owners in the 1970's. Hand-assembly and front panels, limited memory, limited I/O, limited storage. Limited access to prior source-code. The other limitation was the owner him/herself: programming was likely a mystery, at least programming that particular processor, and later in time the mystery of whatever "system" architecture in use. Results matter. Those owners learned, became computing experts, who became employed in the personal-computer boom to come. So - that old-school way, mattered then; and matters now as a matter of historic preservation. So why preserve it? To remember the lessons of the 20th century past: a past of limited resources, versus the 21st century experiences of ABUNDANT, STANDARDIZED computing. And so, calling assembly language programming "tedious" misses these points, imposes those 21st century assumptions on 20th century tech. This is not some old man's problem with the future. My vintage Web site, attracts people who ask me "I wanna start with some vintage computing; where do I learn, how to program and repair these things?" I'm stumped - modern resources have mostly given up "assembly language" and "TTL logic" or even "read this schematic"! If the above is too "tedious", if you are messing with vintage computers "for fun", and don't care about historic perspective, that's fine. But you have a choice. Try to sledge-hammer C code (or some language-of-the-year) from a cross-compiler into an Apple II, and trip over all the I/O it needs to "know"? Or, work within the Apple II's BASIC, Sweet-16, and assembly-language calls (documented long ago) - in assembler (readily accessible) - and get something DONE? And learn something "old"? If you are worried about looking trivial - buy a Raspberry Pi and *guarantee* your results are trivial, just in a larger social group. Harumph, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

7 9

Tarbell DD controller troubleshooting
by Richard Cini 07 Aug '17

07 Aug '17

All – Not sure if anyone has worked on these boards before, but I’m working on a Tarbell DD controller for a machine I’m restoring and it doesn’t respond to any manual communications with the board using the test routines in the manual. The simplest test is to write a value to the data port and read it back using a ROM monitor. I always get 0xFF back. Since it’s jumper-selectable for port ranges, I’ve tried both ranges. I didn’t know if this was a common failure mode, but I thought I’d first replace the buss interface chips – 8208 octal 3-state transceivers. Not sure if there is a known cross reference or replacement. If so, what is it? I also have a second Tarbell DD controller (a spare) which won’t allow the CPU to come out of reset. Not sure if that sounds familiar to anyone, but I thought I’d mention it in case it sounds familiar. Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

1 0

The great CRT & printer disbursement
by Evan Koblentz 07 Aug '17

07 Aug '17

Today we set aside about 1/3rd of all our monitors and printers. We simply had too much. We focused on keeping computer-branded versions and historically significant aftermarket versions. We put aside mostly generic items and redundant branded items (we don't need six Apple Imagewriter IIs, for example.) The units that we put aside -- a whole pallet full of printers and maybe 15-20 monitors -- will all be available to members at the workshop next weekend. Items are yours for $10 each. All items are as-is and untested. Some are quite nice, we just have enough or don't need them.

3 4

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] assembler is tedious (was WooHoo!) (Jeffrey Jonas)
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Aug '17

07 Aug '17

Herb Johnson via vcf-midatlantic writes: >Adam Michlin had a lot to say. It's pretty much reasonable, plausible >stuff he has to say. But I have a few nagging comments. > >I don't care for his use of a distinction between "real" programmers >(his quotes), versus whatever-the-hell we do, we who post here, as less >than real. I see his point, I have a BSEE myself. But I don't care for >that ordering, or the choice of word. This is a discussion list about >vintage computers; modern work is second, that's the order. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/209/503496984_bc43812ff6_o.jpg >And I don't care to hear, what amounts to "assembly languages - learn >one, learn them all". And emulators, while free and convenient, aren't >quite the same as actual hardware sitting on your desk, or in a rack. > >He's welcome to his preferences and priorities of course. But then - if >he clearly favors one processor or architecture over another - why then >claim any assembly language is like all others? It is...but it isn't. > >I get his points, there was no insult intended. But it makes me cringe. >Like a Civil War re-enactor cringes, when visitors ask them about Web >sites, cell-phone reception, keeping cool in the summer, etc. > >About "reality". I spent my time last week, as follows. Disassembling >COSMAC 1802 code to restore source for an RCA monitor program. I looked >at and discussed, oddball Z80 and 8080 architectures, for programming to >SPI or I2C devices. I explained the repair of a 1979 S-100 bus backplane >and just scanned its manual last night. > >Please don't tell me, what I'm doing, isn't "real". That knowledge of >and experience with architectural features are arbitrary details, >readily learned, readily emulated. And don't do so, when some of these >differences matter to YOU. No insult to you, just consider the larger >contexts, as I've suggested. > > >keepin' it real retrotechnology.com > > >-- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA Good grief, please don't tell me there's another New Jersey; one's bad enough!.

1 0