- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

THINK!
by Jeffrey Jonas 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

Neil Cherry: > I get in a lot of trouble when I'm engineering something > because before I start doing, I start planning. T.J. Watson Sr said it best. "THINK". There are youtube videos where he explains that motto. Not "think first" or "think ahead". Just "think". Think about what you're doing before doing it. Solve the problem, don't just make a program for the sake of writing programs. > I sit down and think first. > My boss had a fit with me until I explained that I will be on schedule > even though I had physically to show. > I find it hard to believe that people can start doing > without planning first. So the paper and pen > (white board, markers and a camera) are my preferred method of starting a project. It's those pointy-headed-bosses that cause the crapware we have: folks pounding out pretty pieces that might not fit together, but it's "look busy" and "how many lines of code can you write per day" vs. does it work, is it maintainable, is it optimized or other goodness-o-meter things.

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one screen vs. a few active windows
by Jeffrey Jonas 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

David Riley: > Personally, my favorite is juggling jobs with ^Z and 'fg %x', > since it means one less thing to have to click on > (also, I got my start in command-line programming on single-window terminals, > so jobs juggling was the only option). > If possible, I like to avoid mouse use entirely; it entails a high context-switch overhead. I started with programmable calculators, but they were limited to their ROM system. Punched cards and greenbar on batch systems gave access to a world of languages but was S L O W and frustrationg, particularly the turnaround to fix just ONE syntax error, or 'desk debugging' an ABEND. Migrating to a Teletype was nicer: interactive but still limited by the printer mechanism. Migrating to a "glass tty" was a step up for full screen interactive editing, saving paper, no more waiting for the printer, etc. But this is where the narrative diverges. 1) Using a dedicated terminal is nice because there's little to go wrong with it once the baud rate and such are set. Any problem and just swap terminals. VCF celebrates such systems. A lot. 2) But once I started using Procomm under DOS, I could do a lot more. File transfers. Play back scripts. Save screen shots. Log the entire session. Automate dialers and logins. 3) I used Unix shell layers, job control and various data switches with a plain terminal. It allows multiplexing the single device. But it's still just one connection at a time. It's nice having the OPTION of multiple active windows. Right now, I'm using a laptop with a full screen vi-editor, composing this into a temporary file that I'll cut-and-paste into my gmail account to reply to the list. But with just one click, I'm back to the full screen Firefox since I am still reading the list digest. That's how I'm combining my replies. No need for refresh, oh where was I, etc. But then again, I just interrupted vi for a shell escape to blast out a quick email because this is via ssh to a remote system and it's a nusance to create a temporary window, ssh again just for one interruption.

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going paperless
by Jeffrey Jonas 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

Mike Loewen: > A lot of us old-school C programmers prefer the command line. 99.9% of my work is command line. That way a shell script can automate it. I can recall a command and "do it again". > My personal preference (on *nix) is: > 1. Terminal window open for editing with 'vim'. > 2. Another terminal window for running 'make'. > 3. A third terminal for reading 'man' pages. :-) I'm still floundering with going totally paperless for manuals and documentation. It's nice downloading multi-hundred page PDF files and not needing to clear shelf space for each databook. But books can be read without electricity and allow for customization such as bookmarks, column-notes and post-its. For schematics, I still prefer ledger or size B or C to minimize off-page connectors. How I hate ALD (automated logic diagrams) :-( Standard US Architectural Drawing Sizes Size (mm, inches) ARCH A 228.6 x 304.8 9 x 12 ARCH B 304.8 x 457.2 12 x 18 ARCH C 457.2 x 609.6 18 x 24 ARCH D 609.6 x 914.4 24 x 36 ARCH E 914.4 x 1219.2 36 x 48

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C or Pascal?
by Jeffrey Jonas 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

Evan: > If I try learning C, > then I could go directly to K&R or even pick up a modern Dummies book, > but for period's sake it would be the former. But remember the intended audience back then. K&R was BY computer folks FOR computer folks. It's "concise", thus all the followup annotated versions by others. Computer centers had a social element: the local guru instead of Google and wikis. AT&T, colleges all had formal & informal heirarchies of staff & helpers to help newcomers. You cannot assume such an environment anymore, an issue Kernighan and I discussed at VCF. Referring to Grace Hopper's interview on David Letterman: there were no manuals for the ENIAC. It was all learn by the seat of your pants. Writing manuals was quite the cottage industry, thus all the "learn along with us" newsletters, user groups and magazines. The Beagle Brothers were legendary for their fun Apple tips & tricks. O'Reilly Nutshell books set the standard for how to learn new things QUICK.

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why FORTH, not FOURTH?
by Jeffrey Jonas 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

McGuire: > Yeah, that's one part of history that I do NOT miss. > I do a good bit of assembler these days > and just wouldn't be able to stay sane > with five-character identifier names. Ach, you kids have it so easy with your long filenames, subdirectories and long identifiers! Working with limitations is part of computer HISTORY (and being re-discovered by embedded programmers) - 5 character filenames & labels on the 1130 - 8.3 filenames on CP/M and DOS - 14 character filenames on early Unix file systems (16 byte directory entry: 2 byte inode #, 14 byte name). Other machines and operating systems had their own restrictions, such as radix-50 for six characters into one 36-bit word https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Radix-50 Neil Cherry: > and I think Python is used for that now > (good language though the indentation > brings me back to my Assembly Language days, > yes with 4 char labels). Indentation? 4 character labels? WHAT A LUXURY! I started with EDU-25 BASIC: ONE character names and line NUMBERS! FORTRAN was a step-up with longer variable names and line numbers only where needed! Bob Flanders: > And don't use no big words I can't understand. That's why old systems were better! No long names or words allowed! I never liked William F. Buckley because I needed a dictionary to look up everything he said :-/ Roganti: > I read that some acronyms we were so accustomed to were actually backronyms Some were intentional, such as XINU (Xinu Is Not Unix), others were to cover up an "in joke" when something was named, particularly when using naughty words (SNAFU, FUBAR).

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by Brian L. Stuart 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

On Fri, 1/20/17, Mike Loewen via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > Welcome to the early 1970s. :-) Write your FORTRAN program down on > coding forms: > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/FortranCodingForm.png > > Then head to the keypunch room and punch your deck. Take it to the > dispatch area and submit your job to the dispatcher. Come back in minutes Or, as happened for one of my final exams in college, the professor takes the coding forms, photocopies them, and gives you back the originals. Then you have to go make the program work. You lose 1/4 point per character you have to change up to a maximum of 2 points per line up to a maximum of 50 points for the whole program. An interesting experience... BLS

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by Mike Loewen 20 Jan '17

20 Jan '17

On Fri, 20 Jan 2017, Alexander Pierson via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > At the same time I was wrestling with that, I did a historical paper on > Pascal. In the process of researching it, I think that was the first > time I was exposed to the concept of writing out a program by hand with > pencil and paper before entering it onto a computer. That blew my mind, > seeing as never thought of a time before text editors and glass > terminals. I'm so used to instant gratification of finding syntactical > errors and compiling at the drop of a hat. Then again, that dates me as > an individual... > I should really give the alternative a try some time for the sake of > perspective. Welcome to the early 1970s. :-) Write your FORTRAN program down on coding forms: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/FortranCodingForm.png Then head to the keypunch room and punch your deck. Take it to the dispatch area and submit your job to the dispatcher. Come back in minutes or hours, depending on the load, and retrieve your deck and printout. Review the output for syntax errors, keypunch errors and logic errors. Return to the keypunch room and punch new cards to fix the errors. Lather, rinse and repeat. While punched cards and keypunches trigger my nostalgia, I also prefer the "instant gratification" of frequent compilation. Mike Loewen mloewen(a)cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

william degnan via vcf-midatlantic writes: >On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Brian Schenkenberger via vcf-midatlantic < >vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > >> william degnan via vcf-midatlantic writes: >> >> > BASIC is the universal language for >> >demos in a museum setting when you're just showing something that you >> >can execute in real time. >> >> ROTFLMAO! >> >> >Brian, >Might you be a tad biased? What language other than BASIC is most present >on the machines in the museum? I should have said the universal language >for demos in our museum setting. Sometimes you have to be practical rather >than theoretical. Pascal? C? Assembly? For museum demos? This thread >is full of "what I would do's" rather than what is reasonable, efficient >and practical specifically for Evan to use and self-support. >Bill Sorry, Real time and BASIC is what was funny.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Perhaps I asked the wrong question...
by Brian L. Stuart 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

On Thu, 1/19/17, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > Forth is a really mind-bending language, but man, it sure is > powerful. I love it. Indeed. Forth and LISP both bend your mind, and in different directions. Taken together they stretch your mind more than hallucinogens. Now you know why I'm the way I am :) BLS

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Washington, D.C.
by J. Alexander Jacocks 19 Jan '17

19 Jan '17

So, did we come to a conclusion? Are we going to meet this evening, or tomorrow evening? Everyone should be aware that the inauguration is tomorrow, and that could make a mess of traffic, in NoVA. - Alex On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alexander via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Alexander <ajpierson1(a)yahoo.com> > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> > Cc: > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:59:59 -0500 > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Washington, D.C. > Depending on the time, I will probably be free on one of those days for > something. I'm near Tyson's more or less. > > -Alexander 'Z' Pierson > > Sent from my pocket telephone. > > "J. Alexander Jacocks via vcf-midatlantic" <vcf-midatlantic@lists. > vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > >I'm also in the DC area, and will be in Tyson's Corner, tomorrow, and > could > >probably meet. > > > >- Alex > > > >On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Ethan via vcf-midatlantic < > >vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > > > >> If anyone is going to be around the D.C. area over the next couple of > days > >>> for whatever reason and would like to meet over coffee, feel free to > >>> e-mail > >>> me at dcayea(a)lyonmountain.com > >>> > >> > >> I'm in Northern VA. I know there is a few others on here (though haven't > >> met them face to face.) Are you in the city or suburbs? Any NoVA people > >> want to meet up in the evening Thur/Fri ? > >> > >> - Ethan O > >> > >> > >> > >

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