- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Jeff Salzman 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Seems the definition of "local" needs to be addressed. (And I'm betting as I type this, someone else is, or has already defined the term.) Local, in the context of this long-running faction of an organization is loosely defined as an area as big as it needs to be for many to reasonably and regularly attend the organization's events. Special events like VCF-East have certainly been an exception to that, but VCF-E is a Vintage Computer Federation event, run by volunteers and members of the local organization in Wall Township, NJ. It was already discussed by many, and nearly officially by Tony B., that Mid-Atlantic covers a VERY large swath on the Eastern seaboard and nearby inland states. Unless anybody has an issue with the use of "local" to define that, then let's stick with using the term local as having such a broad reference. While we won't kick anybody from Nebraska away who comes to one of our Workshops or Festivus, or a future hackathon, that Nebraskan would probably not make regular trips to Wall Township, NJ on a near monthly basis. As such, we probably wouldn't consider Nebraska "local", but they are more than welcome to join the group and/or mailing list if they wish. So Bill, you ARE local in the broadest sensible sense of the term. You're certainly far more local to this area than to the sister group in California's Bay Area. I live further from Wall Township, NJ than you, but I would call MARCH (sticking with that name for now) my local retro computer club. We have members in Virginia who think the same way. As for the same 7 people. That's just because those people choose on their own to attend these events on a regular basis, or even a volunteer, or docent. It is not a defining requirement for membership and never has been. Any group or organization will have its "regular" members, but as far as attendance at our regular Workshop events, the invitation is always there. The simple rules are: - Sign up on the Google Sheet that's sent via announcement to this message list - Pay the daily Workshop fee of $15 - Understand that attendees will not (always) fix your stuff for you, but many help as much as they can. This is an opportunity to learn how to restore your own stuff. - Be kind and courteous - ENJOY YOURSELF! - Clean up before you leave As "MARCH" defines more suitable ways to get the word out to the retro hobbyist about these regular events, there is hope that more people would learn about our volunteer opportunities, and not feel that they are not welcome to participate in anything "MARCH" does. Jeff Salzman On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 1:38 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > On 10/29/2024 12:08 PM, David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > > My point was more of "should folks like myself be on the list at all, > since we are not local"? I asked because one of the most recent list > emails was about "the same 7 people come to events, few help out..." and > I think there was an implication that the list members should be take a > more active role in the org. I'd love to assist, and I do for other > VCF-like orgs closer to home, but I can't help be a docent or set up for > the swap meet, and neither can the others on the list who are far > flung. That was my intent. > > Jim > > >

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Andrew Diller 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Nice glue you got there. The United Federation of Plants meets every 3d Wednesday at the Morris Horticultural Society back deck, on Pine Ridge. -andy https://imgur.com/a/on5tjuH > On Oct 29, 2024, at 1:45 PM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > logo of the United Federation of Plants,

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Tony Bogan 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

I’d like to bring this conversation back to what Christian mentioned earlier about the logo…… I’m having trouble finding for comparison the logo of the United Federation of Plants, but im interested in learning more about them!!! (Sorry, at drydock and this is my only break time today and I’m getting loopy from the paint fumes) Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue. Tony Bogan > On Oct 29, 2024, at 1:40 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > <mime-attachment>

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Dean Notarnicola 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

All are welcome on the list, regardless of level of participation. We are better together. On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 1:39 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > On 10/29/2024 12:14 PM, Andrew Diller wrote: > > I read this and also thought "he's asking for an announcement only list" > -- which does not exist. But could be created (but I'm guessing it would be > occasionally forgotten about). > > Sorry, that was not my intent. I actually like the discussion, at least > some of the time, since I work in other related groups and seeing how > you all process things helps other groups. And, yes, the announce list > would suffer from being yet another thing to deal with. > > No, just wanted to make sure it was OK to be on here and if it's OK, > noting that those like me necessarily can only watch and add bit of > value from afar, please don't hate that we didn't sign up to volunteer > at all the cool things you do. > > Jim > >

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by David Gesswein 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Nobody is going to say you shouldn't be on the list. If people are getting overwelmed by emails of no intrest speak up. If so it may make sense to have an announce only list. Will then require sending announcements to both lists since not everybody will sign up for the announce list so one list makes it simpler. On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:54:10AM -0500, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 11:54:10 -0500 > From: RETRO Innovations <go4retro(a)go4retro.com> > To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy > Changes > User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird > > With all of this discussion, I'm concerned that I should not be on the > list.. I joined many moons ago as this list seems to have good > information on the VCF-E event and other related VCF events. > > But, I am not local, and I doubt I will ever be able to attend events > outside of the VCF-E show. > > If I'm here erroneously, let me know. If not, I'd ask you keep in mind > I am probably not the only non Mid-Atlantic person on-list. I'm not > saying the discussions should deviate from Mid-Atlantic, or even > NJ-focused, discussions, just wanted to remind folks that there's > probably a small segment of subscribers who look in from afar. > > Jim

4 4

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Andrew Diller 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Ha I was thinking the same thing. Someone already decided it's MARCH. Did I miss the announcement? > On Oct 29, 2024, at 1:04 PM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > Functionally doesn’t change the fact that VCF MA (did we suddenly decide now it’s MARCH without any further discussion? I want MACE seriously considered :-) -andy

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Neil Cherry 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

On 10/29/24 12:30, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > My vote is for MAACE (or MACE) > > Mid-Atlantic Apple Computer Enthusiasts > 😉 Yeah, go eat a burger. ;-) (Folks that's not meant as an insult). And I like the name MARCH (still have the Polo). I liked being a MARCHian. ;-) No, I don't have anything more constructive. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry kd2zrq(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies KD2ZRQ

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Tony Bogan 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Functionally doesn’t change the fact that VCF MA (did we suddenly decide now it’s MARCH without any further discussion? I want MACE seriously considered :-) does not own or have any rights to the collection. This was made abundantly clear to those of us that created the 501c in the first place almost 10 years ago. Additionally, what was originally intended doesn’t change the fact you just stated. Namely that most of the money comes from National and has since the start. Just trying to keep the discussion real and on point as a lack of information has been a problem since the start as vid ever by this very discussion. There have been numerous discussions over the years about the collection, who owns it, what is to be done with it, how it should be managed etc etc. as well as questions raised by those who have donated or who reached out to us for a rescue. Knowing the potential legal issues that could arise if ever there was an issue, these are important things to not o ly keep in the discussion but accurately disseminate to the membership. The computers and artifacts are not the property of VCF MA, MARCH or even MAACE :-) :-) Functionality not withstanding. I’ve deleted the rest of my response. Tony Bogan > On Oct 29, 2024, at 12:54 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > <mime-attachment>

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Andrew Diller 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Mmmmm.... • MACRO • Mid-Atlantic Computing Retro Organization • MATRIX • Mid-Atlantic Technology Restoration & Information eXhibition • VACUUM • Vintage Artifacts & Computing Universal Museum -andy > On Oct 29, 2024, at 12:30 PM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > My vote is for MAACE (or MACE) > > Mid-Atlantic Apple Computer Enthusiasts > ;-) >

1 0

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Andrew Diller 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

This is an interesting facet of the discussion that even I didn't think about- so first, thanks Tony for bringing it up. Second lets talk about this... Since VCFederation owns all the physical devices/artifacts/dollars in the warehouse and museum and bank accounts, and I'm sure it's VCFederation's 503 name/corp entity on all the agreements with InfoAge- to me that does two things: 1. Frees up the 'club' to name itself however it wants. There seem to be zero assets for VCF-MA or MARCH or whatever it renames itself. So go to town and make a new name. If that is what the membership is asking for, deliver it! 2. Does nothing to remove the confusion between VCFederation, the Festivals, the people that maintain stuff and have keys to access the artifacts, bank and museum. And that is ok. I've never felt like this was a bad thing- it causes conversation to be had, and people to talk about things and explain. That is a great thing to happen IMHO. So what if people have to explain these nuances? The fact that someone is asking is showing an interest and that motivation is worth more than some re-branding that resolves the confusion (at what level? People will still be confused no matter what you do). And this reflects on the comments from Ian and Ben re: joining and 'activities.' I've always felt the real club is what you make it. You make it by showing up and doing things- talking, helping, donating. Helping with forum, docent, cleaning etc etc etc. There are no hidden meetings (save the SteerCo- and not hidden just not open to general pop) or things going on- anyone can start something if they are willing to put in the time to do it. Not many orgs are like this. Cherish it. I gave a lot for a few years and have backed off due to other things to do, I will come back with more time at some point. I hope by then it hasn't turned into an empty club with paperwork and procedures on how everything must be done. To me the learning and exploring was 80% of the fun of the Federation at InfoAge. I hope this helped express an alternative view on things and encouraged people think about things before making a bunch of changes and the impact those changes may have. -andy PS: Case in point: i've enjoyed 2 VCFMW shows - they are incredible and fun and I don't know a friggin thing about the 'club' that runs them! > On Oct 29, 2024, at 8:39 AM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > From: Tony Bogan <thebogans(a)mac.com> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes > Date: October 29, 2024 at 8:39:20 AM EDT > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > > One thing that has yet to be brought up, at least that I spotted and I apologize if I missed it, is that part of the reason our group is called VCF is we manage and curate the Federations collection. None of the comparisons in Thomas G’s post are true comparisons because of that one (and in my mind significant) fact. > > The warehouse and museum contents do NOT belong to VCF-MA (or MARCH or whatever else you wish to call it) they belong > To VCF. > > That doesn’t mean our group couldn’t have a different name and continue curating VCFs collection of course, but it does set us apart from every and any other group that exists in this country. And for that reason, several others and one other major reason the name change was made to what it currently is. The other major reason? two VCF National Board members being part of VCF MA and in charge of its creation as a 501c and its daily and financial operations. > > Again, these points don’t preclude changing the name, but I believe this is important information for everyone to know and it does make our group unique and in the same > Ocean but not in the same boat (sorry, couldn’t help myself) as everyone else. > > Tony Bogan > >> On Oct 29, 2024, at 8:19 AM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> >> You could bring a device that produces a mild electric shock, and when >> people ask you can shock them until they change the subject. I have a >> portable shock stick that I use in every day life when needed, really >> reduces the stress. >> >>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2024 at 9:44 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < >>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2024 at 18:11 Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < >>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I’m here. I thought VCF was chosen to compete with TCF. >>> >>> >>> It was definitely not to compete with TCF. I was part of the founding. TCF >>> is the Trenton Computer Festival and a once a year event started in 1976? >>> in NJ. Vintage Computer *Festival* was started in 1997 in California. >>> Vintage Computer *Federation* was started in 2016. I can’t recall the exact >>> reason, but likely to match the acronym VCF which was the *Festival *as >>> well as be global sounding and nature with Festivals around the world. >>> >>> The biggest problem as I see it is that people have trouble distinguishing >>> between the *Festival* and the *Federation*. I have to explain to many >>> people the difference between them. Vintage Computer Festival West and >>> Vintage Computer Festival East are run by the Vintage Computer Federation. >>> The other Festivals are independent. I have been to VCF West, VCF East, VCF >>> MidWest, VCF SouthWest, VCF Pacific Northwest, World of Commodore, Trenton >>> Computer Festival, HOPE, World Maker Faire and have had to explain the >>> differences at each event. There are even people that confuse Trenton >>> Computer Festival and Vintage Computer Festival. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Sent from: >>>> My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. >>>> >>>>> On Oct 27, 2024, at 5:33 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < >>>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The name MARCH was suggested because of its prior familiarity, and >>> that >>>>> there is already a BARCH for the Bay Area Retro Computing Hobbyists, >>>> which >>>>> is technically VCF Bay Area. >>>>> >>>>> BARCH and MARCH >>>>> >>>>> Another reason to stick with the naming convention is that it rolls off >>>> the >>>>> tongue better than saying a bunch of consonants, yet still maintaining >>> a >>>>> meaning as an acronym. >>>>> >>>>> Jeff Salzman >>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2024, 3:57 PM W2HX via vcf-midatlantic < >>>>>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> How about just VCFED-NJ people will generally know where New Jersey is >>>>>> located. If, someday, another chapter is opened in, say North >>> Carolina, >>>>>> they can just call themselves VCFED-NC >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 73 Eugene W2HX >>>>>> My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On >>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Joshua Abraham via vcf-midatlantic >>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2024 6:16 PM >>>>>> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> >>>>>> Cc: Joshua Abraham <jarvideo(a)gmail.com> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy >>>>>> Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my two cents, but I feel like Mid-Atlantic should be retired for >>> a >>>>>> more defined region name such as North East or New England to better >>>> define >>>>>> the center of the chapter's operations. >>>>>> >>>>>> The term "Mid- Atlantic" I have seen in other circles to be very >>> broadly >>>>>> defined at times from as far south as the Carolinas and as far north >>> as >>>> New >>>>>> York State. >>>>>> >>>>>> That being said I think there would be a benefit in selecting a name >>>> that >>>>>> better aligns with many of the other regional groups official or >>>> otherwise >>>>>> for the sake of consistency to the layman. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that technically Vcf does live within the mid Atlantic >>> boundary, >>>>>> but being on the outer edge, it may be best to focus on a more central >>>> name. >>>>>> >>>>>> Who knows, another group could pop up between new Jersey and Georgia >>> one >>>>>> day. May as well plan for the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, Joshua. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 25, 2024, 5:09 PM Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < >>>>>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thomas and to all >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are the items that you mentioned here (and others pending) going to >>> be >>>>>>> brought up at the Festivus meeting that we usually have in December >>>>>>> and VCF members allowed to vote on it?( or sooner) I am sure that you >>>>>>> and the others will keep us Informed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike Rosen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from: >>>>>>> My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Thomas G via vcf-midatlantic < >>>>>>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We in the steering committee have been considering making a number >>>>>>>> of changes to our operation, role, and focus for the past few weeks. >>>>>>>> We feel that our operation and communication has not been as >>>>>>>> effective as it >>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> be, given our stated goals, and are also considering certain changes >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> broader aspects of VCF Mid-Atlantic, such as membership, elections, >>>>>>>> and defining our role in relation to VCF National, largely in >>>>>>>> response to feedback from VCF Mid-Atlantic members. One of the >>>>>>>> changes we are considering, while largely inconsequential, is to >>>>>> revive the name 'MARCH' >>>>>>>> (short for 'Mid Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists') to replace the >>>>>>> clunky >>>>>>>> 'VCF Mid-Atlantic'. We are still in the deliberating process, but >>>>>>>> one change worth reporting has already occurred - Jeff Salzman has >>>>>>>> delegated the role of Steering Committee Chairman to Thomas >>>>>>>> Gilinsky. The >>>>>>> composition >>>>>>>> of the steering committee has not changed aside from this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Further information will be made available as we finalize our >>>>>> decisions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > >

1 0