- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by Dean Notarnicola 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

Bill, completely agreed. The depressing result is that, without underlying knowledge of the systems they are programming, these "software engineers" have no idea how to troubleshoot an issue beyond their code, or how to code efficiently. This is not an entirely new phenomenon. I knew plenty of Cobol programmers back in the day who knew practically zero about how or why the underlying systems worked. The best programmers I have known also had a very good understanding of the hardware and communication channels. On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Bill Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > Neil Cherry wrote: > > I'm a bit old school, can't quite understand how > > those in computers can't understand the underlying > > principles of the computer (hardware and software). > > But along those same lines we're abstracting so > > much of this that we don't need to understand it > > that well. > > It's a bit astonishing to me too. We get job candidates > with CS degrees from reputable universities who don't > know what a register is, can't explain how basic sorts > work or why you would even want to know. In my opinion, > the most evil phrase to come out of a software engineer's > mouth is "I don't want to have to think about...". Yup, > it's all abstracted away. You get a "container class" > with "iterators" and "find" methods and you're all set. > Not fast enough? Throw more hardware at it. > > This is raising my blood pressure... gotta stop. > > Bill S. > > > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by chrisjpf33＠gmail.com 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

And that is why we have garbage software today! On Jun 7, 2016, at 2:03 PM, Bill Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: Neil Cherry wrote: > I'm a bit old school, can't quite understand how > those in computers can't understand the underlying > principles of the computer (hardware and software). > But along those same lines we're abstracting so > much of this that we don't need to understand it > that well. It's a bit astonishing to me too. We get job candidates with CS degrees from reputable universities who don't know what a register is, can't explain how basic sorts work or why you would even want to know. In my opinion, the most evil phrase to come out of a software engineer's mouth is "I don't want to have to think about...". Yup, it's all abstracted away. You get a "container class" with "iterators" and "find" methods and you're all set. Not fast enough? Throw more hardware at it. This is raising my blood pressure... gotta stop. Bill S.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

Christian Liendo via vcf-midatlantic writes: >> I liken the general lack of knowledge about the inner working of >computers to the general lack of knowledge of automobile internals > >Thank you I was going to use the same analogy. It's because they've become an appliance. You don't need to know how TV works to watch it and, in the same vein, you don't need to know how a computer works to use it either. Also, the GUI -- guarantee user ignorance -- has, IMNSHO, done much to remove the user from the system. And then, there's the education system. Kids come out of college without any understanding of how to program but, oh boy, they know all of the syntactical nuances of the latest trendy language. Assembly programming should be one of their mandatory classes. There, they will need to think through creation of an algorithm using basic computer functions. Me? I was an EE. Never to any programming classes. It was expected of us to learn it to solve EE problems. I really see no merit to teaching some programming lingo but I do see merit in developing a logical/programming mindset to get from point A (input) the pot B (output).

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Big news tomorrow night :)
by Evan Koblentz 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

We're going to make a big announcement tomorrow night. Stay tuned!

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] pickup in DC?
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

Ethan via vcf-midatlantic writes: >> If Bob is unable to pick the item up I might be able to help. I'm in > >Springfield, but work in Herndon. > -J > >I am in Chantilly, VA which is outside of DC. Don't make it into the >city very often. > >Still have a 40 watt 532nm YAG laser in the garage waiting for someone >to come pick it up from Arizona. Grrr. I'll come pick that up! ;)

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] pickup in DC?
by J. Alexander Jacocks 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

And I'm on the edge of the area, in Queenstown, MD, though I'm originally from Montgomery County, and work (sometimes) in Tyson's Corner. - Alex On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Bill Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> wrote: > Bob Flanders wrote: > > Did we already discuss this? > > We've tried before to figure out the "DC area > subgroup"... > > I'm in Silver Spring, David G is in Bethesda... > > Bill S. > > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] pickup in DC?
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: > > Hey folks. Awhile back I needed some help getting a vintage >oscilloscope retrieved from Oklahoma. I'm pleased to report that, with >the help of a friend, it has been retrieved. Now that friend is >traveling in Washington DC, and he brought it with him. Is there anyone >in or near DC who might be able to meet up with him downtown and grab >it? I'll be in DC again in 2-3 weeks and can pick it up at that time. > > Thanks, -Dave Great to see it's advanced east so quickly.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] LAST CALL! For Workshop June 11 & 12!
by Stephen A Edwards 06 Jun '16

06 Jun '16

I'm planning to arrive Saturday afternoon/evening and leaving late Sunday. I'll need a ride from the train station. Anybody else likely arriving late Saturday? Also: I'm going to bring 3 NeXT keyboard & mice (non-ADB)? The museum gets at least one pair; anybody else like the other pair? I also plan to bring some unpopulated S-100 cards (mostly serial ports) and a bare 8" hard drive. Anybody interested in these? 01-Jeff B. - Commodore 64 Robotics Kit for HOPE Exhibit 02-Evan - Lego LOGO robotics kit for HOPE exhibit (Apple II, IBM PC) 03-Alex J. - PS/2 model 70 and AT&T 6300 testing/repairs (Sunday) 04-Dean - TRS-80 Model 4, Model 4D, Model I 05-Todd - Not entirely sure, but definitely will bring my AT&T 6300 06- Bill Drom. - Plan on working on Univac 1532 mods for 60 Hz operation. possibly also clean up the 400 Hz motor gererator set. 07-Duane - same as Bill Drom. 08-Steven M. - need opinions on salvaging an Audio Visual Workshop (AVL) version of an Eagle computer. I rescued it from the back of an AV staging co warehouse. So far all it does it make smoke. Amazingly, there was a spare motherboard packed in the road case... 09-Ian - 2600's Z-100 10- Stephen E. Osborne 1, Commodore 64, Formerly depopulated Apple II motherboard. Apple II power supply. 11-

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] LAST CALL! For Workshop June 11 & 12!
by Todd George 06 Jun '16

06 Jun '16

Hey guys! Sadly, it turns out that I'm only able to make it on Sunday this time. Very bummed. I've updated my participation in the list below. Thanks, -Todd 01-Jeff B. - Commodore 64 Robotics Kit for HOPE Exhibit 02-Evan - Lego LOGO robotics kit for HOPE exhibit (Apple II, IBM PC) 03-Alex J. - PS/2 model 70 and AT&T 6300 testing/repairs (Sunday) 04-Dean - TRS-80 Model 4, Model 4D, Model I 05-Todd - Not entirely sure, but definitely will bring my AT&T 6300 (Sunday) 06- Bill Drom. - Plan on working on Univac 1532 mods for 60 Hz operation. possibly also clean up the 400 Hz motor gererator set. 07-Duane - same as Bill Drom. 08-Steven M. - need opinions on salvaging an Audio Visual Workshop (AVL) version of an Eagle computer. I rescued it from the back of an AV staging co warehouse. So far all it does it make smoke. Amazingly, there was a spare motherboard packed in the road case... 09-Ian - 2600's Z-100

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LAST CALL! For Workshop June 11 & 12!
by Jeffrey Brace 06 Jun '16

06 Jun '16

If you want to be guaranteed a table, then sign up here now! This is the current list that I have: 01-Jeff B. - Commodore 64 Robotics Kit for HOPE Exhibit 02-Evan - Lego LOGO robotics kit for HOPE exhibit (Apple II, IBM PC) 03-Alex J. - PS/2 model 70 and AT&T 6300 testing/repairs (Sunday) 04-Dean - TRS-80 Model 4, Model 4D, Model I 05-Todd - Not entirely sure, but definitely will bring my AT&T 6300 06- Bill Drom. - Plan on working on Univac 1532 mods for 60 Hz operation. possibly also clean up the 400 Hz motor gererator set. 07-Duane - same as Bill Drom. 08-Steven M. - need opinions on salvaging an Audio Visual Workshop (AVL) version of an Eagle computer. I rescued it from the back of an AV staging co warehouse. So far all it does it make smoke. Amazingly, there was a spare motherboard packed in the road case... 09-Ian - 2600's Z-100 10- 11-

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