June 2016 - vcf-midatlantic

efficiency, put another way
by Dave McGuire 08 Jun '16

08 Jun '16

[sorry if you see this twice; I sent it to the "old" list in error] To put the efficiency argument another way.. It seems we (the larger "we", societally) have called into question the basic value of efficiency. Is efficiency inherently valuable? I say it is. Many people, however, say it isn't, or at least imply that it isn't, because they say things like "RAM is basically free, so it doesn't matter". (Evan, I know you were speaking as devil's advocate there) The problem is, these people are gratuitously and cavalierly stating that efficiency is no longer important in order to excuse themselves from having to know what they're doing, to absolve themselves of responsibility for creating crap results (crappy software, etc), or to give themselves an "out" by justifying their laziness. I assert that efficiency is inherently good, and laziness is inherently bad. These assertions are, I firmly believe, beyond question. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] efficiency, put another way
by Brian L. Stuart 08 Jun '16

08 Jun '16

Neil Cherry wrote: > Fast (amount of time to do), Good (quality, meets > requirements), and Cheap (overall cost). Pick any 2 I've heard this all my life, but it not really true. To some degree it does say something about the finished product, but it doesn't extend to the process of creating that product. No amount of money will buy time. Throwing more people at a project won't make it happen any faster. The reality is that you can either say what or you can say when, but you can't say both. The greatest project failures I've seen all come down to someone who can't design their way out of a paper bag thinking they can manage their way around this fundamental law. If you like, think of it like the uncertainty principle for project management. The more you know about what is going to be delivered, the less you know about when it's going to be delivered, and vice versa. The effect that the amount of money has on that is lost in the noise. BLS

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] efficiency, put another way
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 08 Jun '16

08 Jun '16

Dan Roganti via vcf-midatlantic writes: >=E2=80=8BI think the term "resource-poor" for describing the 60s, >70s=E2=80= =8B or maybe the 80s is inaccurate It is relative, depending >on your viewpoint - if you keep looking from the 21st century viewpoint >But if you were there in the thick of it back then, it was actually the >norm. So you were expected to design with those constraints Constraints >are a fact of life in engineering Dan Especially, the constraints tying you to a desk until the job is complete. ;)

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] efficiency, put another way
by Dan Roganti 08 Jun '16

08 Jun '16

I think the term "resource-poor" for describing the 60s, 70s or maybe the 80s is inaccurate It is relative, depending on your viewpoint - if you keep looking from the 21st century viewpoint But if you were there in the thick of it back then, it was actually the norm. So you were expected to design with those constraints Constraints are a fact of life in engineering Dan

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] efficiency, put another way
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 08 Jun '16

08 Jun '16

Neil Cherry via vcf-midatlantic writes: >I view efficiency as: > >Fast (amount of time to do), Good (quality, meets requirements), and >Cheap (overall cost). Pick any 2 There's more to weighing in efficiency in today's computing environments than just tossing some faster processor at the problem. Many multiple processors, VLM architectures and NUMA pose issues that can NOT be addressed simply with sloppy programming masked/cured by faster processing. However, if you and or your programmers only have experience with simple desktop type systems, these issues are as foreign a concept as tensor calculus is to a grade schooler. I have seen applications in such environments, well written too, degrade rather quickly because someone configured the environment without consideration for and of the ramifications of these modern system aspects.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] efficiency, put another way
by VAXman＠tmesis.org 08 Jun '16

08 Jun '16

Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic writes: > I assert that efficiency is inherently good, and laziness is >inherently bad. These assertions are, I firmly believe, beyond >question. Dave for President!

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Fully working Woz-signed straight Apple 2 + Lee F.-signed Sol-20 for auction
by Evan Koblentz 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

VCFed is doing some fundraising. We're auctioning a fully working and Woz-autographed straight Apple II * and * a fully working and Felsenstein-autographed Processor Tech Sol-20. Both computers are SUPER-CLEAN. Apple II: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191890608380 Sol-20: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191890605553 We're using eBay to maximize the value since we're a non-profit. Have fun!

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Fully working Woz-signed straight Apple 2 + Lee F.-signed Sol-20 for auction
by Systems Glitch 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

> Be sure to drink your Ovaltine? That's it? > A stinken' commercial? Careful, you'll put your eye out! (Amy and I laughed) Thanks, Jonathan

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by Christopher Blackmon 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

From: Bill Sudbrink via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> To: 'vcf-midatlantic' <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vintagecomputerfederation.org> Cc: Bill Sudbrink <wh.sudbrink(a)verizon.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore Neil Cherry wrote: > On 06/07/2016 04:36 PM, Christopher Blackmon > via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > > Ya'll slow down a minute... I need more popcorn. > > This is the best episode of "Grumpy Old Engineers" > > I've seen in a while! > Hey, you kids, get off my work bench! <grumble-grumble-grumble> Probably doesn't know which end of a soldering iron to grab... <grumble-grumble-grumble> ---- The pointy end, right? :p cb

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: people don't understand computers anymore
by Neil Cherry 07 Jun '16

07 Jun '16

On 06/07/2016 04:36 PM, Christopher Blackmon via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > Ya'll slow down a minute... I need more popcorn.This is the best episode > of "Grumpy Old Engineers" I've seen in a while! Hey, you kids, get off my work bench! ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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