May 2020 - vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by W2HX 23 May '20

23 May '20

If it doesnt know which way it wants to start, then it might be an AC motor in need of a starting capacitor. http://www.capacitorguide.com/motor-starting-capacitor/? 73 Eugene W2HX ________________________________ From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> on behalf of Jeff G via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 7:28 PM To: VCF Cc: Jeff G Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Paper Tape readers from CNC machines

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Re: Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by Jeff G 23 May '20

23 May '20

So update on my end, it seems I got my tape reader (at least the reader itself) mostly working. Turns out it was defective; had 2 bad 4049 ICs; one had dead outputs so only 4 bits were working, the second seemed to be noisy/flaky, so replacing both got me solid data output. So I have solid confirmation of the strobe pins (one inverted) and the data pins. I still don't have solid motor control, I know Duane and others mentioned 24v, but the motor sounds much happier around 15v, yet its flaky in that while it mostly runs fine, the motor seems to not know what direction it wants to go in. On occasion the motor doesn't want to start, and using what I think is a reverse pin only "usually" works. I'm really half tempted to believe this really wants 24 volts AC, but not sure I want to try that just yet.Theres 4 diodes in the motor control section. Theres 2, maybe 3 pins on the IDC plug, and 2 pins on the power connector that seem to be for motor control. One seems to slow it down (although it just stops instead, almost like a "hold", one seems to "usually" reverse the motor, and the last seems to be a step pulse. This all sounds to me like half the waveform it would get from a 24v AC input is missing. I cannot find datasheets for the stepper control ICs anywhere, seems they are Fujitsu MB14275 and MB14276. Anyhow...since it mostly works I can see if I can actually get this thing to read some data! Also if I can verify the motor control wiring, I'll post up a full pinout. BTW This is a Sanyo Denki 2401C-1 tape reader, likely from a Yasnac 2000G CNC controlled somethin rather, likely a Mori lathe. Jeff aka Bags

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Do something useful with your C64
by William Dudley 22 May '20

22 May '20

https://www.crowdsupply.com/amigastyle/zeus-lt CrowdSupply is an interesting platform -- they make and sell all kinds of interesting computers for developers. Bill Dudley This email is free of malware because I run Linux.

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TPUG Toronto PET Users Group on Zoom tonight 7:30PM Eastern
by Jeffrey Brace 21 May '20

21 May '20

The Toronto PET Users Group meets online now for their monthly meeting. They usually meet the third Thursday of the month at 7:30PM. They are using Zoom due to Covid-19, so this is an opportunity for us from far away to join their meeting. Here is the info: ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Leif Bloomquist <leif(a)schemafactor.com> Date: Wed, May 20, 2020 at 12:36 AM Subject: [torontocbm] Toronto PET Users Group May 21st 2020 *Online* To: torontocbm(a)freelists.org <torontocbm(a)freelists.org> Hi all, We are going to try another online virtual meeting for this month. Thursday May 21st 2020 at 7:30 PM. Open to any topic, though there may be some C64-based music happening. The video link will be posted at this page, as well as Discord and on TorontoCBM soon before the meeting starts. https://www.tpug.ca/2020/05/may-2020-meeting-online/ Of course, Discord chat is always open, see you there! https://discord.gg/V5DHgR3 -- ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member, VCF East Showrunner Vintage Computer Federation http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campai…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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LINC-EIGHT pictures
by Herb Johnson 20 May '20

20 May '20

Congrats on acquiring the LINC/8 system. I saw it go by on eBay and I thought: who had these machines? I'm sorry to hear it was Charles Lasner, who passed a month ago from CoVid. Two years ago in September, he contacted me and other LINC and DEC owners, about reviving his last version of P?S/8, and reading off his old backups. Whatever tapes and notes remain, I hope you and the subsequent LINC owners can recover. We will not see the likes of people like him again. And we won't see old tech like this again, either, in surprisingly good condition even as it delaminates! Regards, Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] How To Geek article on floppy data recovery
by Herb Johnson 20 May '20

20 May '20

Reply to David Gesswein: Sorry for the delay in reply, I work offline from this discussion group, and don't read it daily as most do. I always appreciate the informed views of my good friend David. Especially so in this case because, as he points out, he is a producer of similar tech, for MFM hard drive data recovery *and* emulation. He knows more than I. I acknowledge the value of lower cost. But it creates a market where more costly solutions are discouraged. He discusses cost AND time, as user issues. Some people give up their time, to save costs; some give up costs to save their time. But more buy cheap, and sometimes audience matters. A consequence of inexpensive items is that most do not stick around long. that's why I brought it up! But others can try to recreate them when they aren't available (reliably). Thus the "blue pill" Greaseweasel saga, seems to be, to either build a more reliable one (use the proper CPU chip); or to build one on a better CPU (to move forward). My thanks to Jeff Jonas for passing along some Facebook/greaseweasel info, that is where they congregate. "the projects don't cooperate" is a problem, as David describes. I agree. Developers tend to redevelop rather than rework. Also, old stuff gets lost, or may be hard to recover for redevelopment. This is true in most technology; it's ironically true in vintage computing, but thankfully not always. "most of the value is in the decoding code". The value is split, between the enabling hardware to do the read; and the enabling software to decode the sampled flux-patterns. The historic example of the Catweasel series, is that the hardware producers did not make popular decoding software; others did. I did not determine if the FOUR or FIVE developers of Catweasel decoders, cooperated much or not. Each grabbed some piece of vintage computing disks by brand & model (TRS-80 for instance). http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/s_drives_howto.html#catweasel "I image with real hardware when I have it". Yes, that was the ultimate solution for Intel M2FM disks, which at one point were imaged by Catweasel. The images were reproduced as floppies, and read again on Intel systems! I'll contact David privately for more information about his imaged disks, to route his results to active INtel Multibus owners. http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/m2fm.html Of course, we in vintage computing are generally interested in "real hardware". But I get pushback often, in advocating use of period PC-compatibles to image conventional diskettes (made with Intel/NEC/WD floppy disk controller ICs) with Dunfield IMAGEDSK tools. "I hate old PC's!" is the most terse way to describe that. Thus the value of microcontroller based floppy drive emulators and floppy recovery hardware. Well, each of us chooses our areas of vintage interest. ---------------- I had private discussions of the topic, with "Gordon S." AKA gsteemso. He was of a mind, that some kind of vintage-hardware solution for floppy recovery had some merits. I think it will be a challenge to make such a thing at the price of a few tens of dollars, like the other microcontroller solutions. But a solution like the Greaseweasel is a $200 built-for-you solution; some floppy emulators sell for that price. So: a re-vintaged solution is conceivable, but I don't think it would be simple. At this point, the discussion is a matter of specifics and techie details. A little too much so, for general email discussion lists like this, I believe, and the thread seems to have died down. If that's because I didn't reply and took some discussion privately, my apologies. I hope those participating were informed as I was, and those interested can find more information as they see fit. Regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by Bill Degnan 19 May '20

19 May '20

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:47 PM Jeffrey Golas via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Bill, let me know how you make out but it looks like Duane gave you the > info on the Fanuc model. > > Duane I saw one of those cases on ebay and thought it was cool! If you > have notes/info on the 2702 please pass them along, as its likely the same > as the 2701. > > On the 2701, one side of the ribbon connector is almost completely ground, > on the other side pins 1-5 appear to be control (possibly outputs like > strobe), the next 8 pins are bits, the next 3 may be Fwd/reverse control, > one after that is ground and not sure about the last 3-4. This is a 40 pin > connector. > > Mine has a seperate screw terminal on the opposite side for power, > although it may take 3 voltages, not sure. Motor is 12v but judging by the > MASSIVE ceramic resistor it may be set up for 24v. > > Jeff > > Jeff, I have everything I need now to get started but I still need to look up how to power the reader hardware definitively. I see where the +5V power input goes. The two power input leads labeled "100B" and"100A". Here is a pic of the board I need to power: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-FANUC-Tape-Recorder-Board-A20B-0004-0280-Used-2… Who here specifically has worked with the FANUC A20B-0004 reader or something FANUc from the early 80's? This FANUC 6 manual, which includes this model of tape reader as part of a larger system, references the part numbers found on the reader http://cncmanual.com/download/1646/ >From the manual (starting from page 320 or so) it looks like inputs 100A and 100B are both/shared (?) 24V inbound, and the 24V DC is brought down to 18V (?). 1Amp. I will document the process onto vintagecomputer.net once I have some progress reading tapes. I am thinking I should attach a 24VDC and 5V DC to the board. Bill

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Re: Okuma Reader
by Jeffrey Golas 19 May '20

19 May '20

Interesting, so thats a slightly different design with mostly the same stuff. I’m working on mine and it seems to function with ~18v and 5v, but the motor control seems to be scatterbrained, sometimes it powers up stuck, other times it picks a direction and runs. I also notice only one led in the array is lit up, but since they seem to be in series im suspecting theyre all infrared. Just brought in the oscope to confirm signals. Attaching a pic of mine. Jeff > On May 19, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Duane Craps <duaneb.craps(a)cox.net> wrote: > > Jeff, > > Attached is Photos of my reader project. I can control it from the Arduino serial monitor or the front panel switches. The data scrolls into the serial monitor's input window, and I cut and paste it into a file. There is a similar unit on ebay that has a metal case vice the nice plastic on on my unit. Either it was an earlier model or someone made a replacement after the plastic one was broken. They were used in machine shops and the case looks home made.. > > MY notes: > > PIN 1-8 -- Bits 0-7 > > Pin 11 -- strobe > > pin 20 -- run > > Pin 13 -- reverse > > I put a mean well +24/+5 volt supply And A Teensy micro controler in the case. Thought it might have been too much to run the logic from the USB > > -- > Duane Craps > sdɐɹɔ ǝuɐnp > > <20180912_105647.jpg> > <20181012_115146.jpg>

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Re: Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by Jeffrey Golas 19 May '20

19 May '20

Bill, let me know how you make out but it looks like Duane gave you the info on the Fanuc model. Duane I saw one of those cases on ebay and thought it was cool! If you have notes/info on the 2702 please pass them along, as its likely the same as the 2701. On the 2701, one side of the ribbon connector is almost completely ground, on the other side pins 1-5 appear to be control (possibly outputs like strobe), the next 8 pins are bits, the next 3 may be Fwd/reverse control, one after that is ground and not sure about the last 3-4. This is a 40 pin connector. Mine has a seperate screw terminal on the opposite side for power, although it may take 3 voltages, not sure. Motor is 12v but judging by the MASSIVE ceramic resistor it may be set up for 24v. Jeff

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Paper Tape readers from CNC machines
by Neil Cherry 18 May '20

18 May '20

Not yet, I have one but I haven't found the time to figure it out. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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