September 2020 - vcf-midatlantic

Altos 586 boards
by Herb Johnson 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

I don't normally post Ebay links. But someone is offering an Altos 586 model CPU board and Altos 986 controller board on ebay as scrap. Parts value or possible repair of an Altos may be worth the price. Vintage 1982 Altos Computer Circuit Mother Boards Chips for Scrap Gold Recovery ebay #233714235023 Ends Sept 22 Regards Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8)
by Joshua Abraham 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

>> I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, and that makes communities wither and go extinct. I couldn't help but weigh in on this. Before making snide remarks such as these it may help to make sure you have actual data to back that up. Hamfests can be rather small and boring but others are MASSIVE coordinated events with large attendance. Most notably, the annual Dayton Hamvention which had an attendance of over 32,000. This event is to hams what VCF is to us vintage computer enthusiasts. The event is hugely successful and they have a full on flea market to go along with it. Closer to my neck of the woods is the annual Shelby Hamfest, an event that's well more than a few decades old and boasts several thousand in attendance and even offers campground space for the folks they know are traveling far and bringing families along. Based on these events alone I'd say ham is alive and well and far from extinct. Personally I think the swapmeet is a fantastic idea and has much potential. -Joshua A

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Kennett Classic Dinner Afterwards Info
by Bill Degnan 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

Anyone interested in going out as a group for dinner after the event closes here is what I have so far 6PM. I have had a few people contact me already to let me know they are interested, keep them coming. I am going to speak with the restaurant owners (I know a few of them) within walking distance to see what the best deal is for us, depending on how many people we have by about Weds or so, with the assumption that there will be persons joining in at the last minute. I will try to get a group rate/deal so we can keep it simple, but *nothing is simple with COVID 19 *and I ask that you be flexible. Dinner will be outside, and I am leaning towards the Kennett Brewing Company a block away. (kennettbrewingcompany.com) because they usually have a band that night. Other options are La Verona and The Grain which also have outdoor dining. We will organize seating based on who can sit together with their masks off. If that's not practical we'll have the restaurant pack it up and we'll eat outside using the tables from the swap or as we can. Stay tuned and let me know via https//www.vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm Thanks.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Sussex hamfest and swapmeets
by Matt Reynolds 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

This is mostly anecdotal, from a fringe, barely-active member, so take it for whatever it is: I got to Hamfests on a regular enough basis, even though I'm not a ham. I've been to some of the bigger ones like Sussex and Dayton and many, many small ones. I think it's very reasonable to say that it's a dying hobby, but is not dead. There's just more to do from a hobby standpoint than ever before, and only so much time in the day, and only so much time on the planet to live your life. There may be more members now, but there are more people on the planet now as well, and part of the boom rush in getting more members was dropping the Morse Code requirements. I'm in a different vintage electronics club and many of them have said that they never bothered to learn, or waited until the code requirement dropped before they took the test. Of course it's evolved, more digital and exotic than it was in the past. Less heavy boatanchors, more things that look more like computer parts than radio parts. More computer related than ever before. I've been to many estate sales of "silent keys" as well. The only people I see buying the heavy ham gear are other hams, which are most of the time within the same age range as the silent key who just passed. Very seldom do I see young guys at those types of sale picking up their first set of gear to get on the air with. The hamfest attendance still seems to me to be in the vast majority men, 50s and above to almost every fest i've been to. Are there younger men, women, kids? Absolutely (I'm not even in my 40s yet). Are they deliberately exclusive? no. There's just not a lot of enticement for anyone else to go to them unless they are already interested in the topic. I go primarily because the trend seems to be for most hams to buy some very expensive new rig that is small, not heavy, and does more, and the vintage stuff, including their test equipment, and quite often computer\consumer electronics, goes to the sale with them alongside their old boatanchor radios. The mentality of "this hamfest is not as big as it used to be" mentality seems to be something I've heard at almost every one I've ever attended, including Dayton, and is something that is brought up without ever mentioning it or asking about it. The toxicity of that mentality and similar companion attitudes in the hobby have been part of the reason I haven't prioritized taking the cert exams. I've never been "talked down to" by elders in any other enthusiast group as often as at hamfests. Asking questions seems to give you a gruff brush-off more often than it should, and more often than I encounter at other swap meets (car parts shows, coin-op shows, antique shows, collectible shows, etc.). It's a really strange phenomenon, because some of my best friends are hams and are on the opposite side of that mentality spectrum. The old fixture of the hobby, an "Elmer" or graybeard-like person there to help teach the others seems to be harder and harder to find at hamfests, because there are so many of the naysayers there polluting it for the Elmers. It doesn't take much to turn people off to a hobby when someone is only mildly curious to begin with. Many times I've thought to myself, why would I bother to get certified to get on the air to talk to grumpy old people talk about how things aren't as good as they used to be and brag about how expensive their radio is? I realize that it is not the only thing that happens, but I've encountered more of the grumps than the Elmers. Back to the original point, I can also see why having a swap meet takes away from an event where you are having exhibits and panels. I've been to other shows that have both at the same time, and I often feel torn between digging through the treasure and watching the panels or events. Maybe you are pondering whether to buy something or not, and while you are thinking about it you go to a panel, and you spend half the panel whether or not you should go buy that thing, or whether it's still there, etc. On the flipside, you have stuff you don't want anymore, you want to get rid of it. It's esoteric and the audience that knows what it is doesn't walk into the flea market everyday, online sales are not always attractive, etc. Seems like the best idea would be to have a separate event that was just a swap meet? Based on the replies already sent back and forth on this topic, there seems to be plenty of demand for one. Regards, Matt nocallletters On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 1:07 PM Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > I’d like to say that you guys (Girls) put on a very good Hamfest, it is > unfortunate that this year it had to be canceled. > > I have been going there probably for the better part of 20 years, selling > and buying. > All of my friends who are into radio equipment have found some really good > deals there. > > I must say that you guys have the most diverse Hamfest/swap meet in NJ. > > Mike Rosen > > Looking forward to going next year. > > > > Sent from: > My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > > > On Sep 16, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Leavitt via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > Not to flog a deceased equine but... > > Sussex County NJ is home to a great hamfest too. > > > > We have over a thousand buyers through the gates and over 200 sellers. > Ann and I usually run the kitchen. We see all kinds of folks. > > > > 73 de KE2L > > > > ________________________________ > > From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> on > behalf of Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 10:33 PM > > To: W2HX via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > Cc: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - > Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) > > > > > > Butler, PA is in the middle of nowhere and generally consists of an > > odd mix of farmers and meth addicts, but there's one hell of a hamfest > > there every year. I too thought hamfests had pretty much died, but then > > I was very happily corrected! I never miss that one. > > > > Of course, every year at the Butler hamfest I run across constipated > > old men standing around complaining about how ham radio (not hamfests, > > but ham radio) is dying. Sometimes I'm in a snarky enough mood to > > interrupt and inform them that it's bigger than it ever has been, but I > > usually just shake my head and leave them to their bran muffins. > > > > -Dave > > > >> On 9/15/20 9:41 AM, W2HX via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > >> I'll pile on 'cause I'm a ham (don't mess with us! Haha). > >> > >> I frequently attend NEARfest which is a spring and fall hamfest event > in the New England area. I don’t know the exact attendance numbers but if I > had to guess I would say "a few thousand" when the weather is good. There > are more hams licensed with the FCC today than ever before in history. Over > 760,000 in the US alone (according to Wikipedia). > >> > >> And growing! > http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202014.jpg > >> > >> Worldwide the number is about 3,000,000 (again according to Wikipedia). > I wonder how many vintage computer hobbyists exist the world? Maybe we > should learn something from the hams. > >> > >> 73 Eugene W2HX > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On > Behalf Of Joshua Abraham via vcf-midatlantic > >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:47 PM > >> To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > >> Cc: Joshua Abraham <jarvideo(a)gmail.com> > >> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - > Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) > >> > >>>> I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many > >> families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, > and that makes communities wither and go extinct. > >> > >> I couldn't help but weigh in on this. Before making snide remarks such > as these it may help to make sure you have actual data to back that up. > >> Hamfests can be rather small and boring but others are MASSIVE > coordinated events with large attendance. Most notably, the annual Dayton > Hamvention which had an attendance of over 32,000. This event is to hams > what VCF is to us vintage computer enthusiasts. The event is hugely > successful and they have a full on flea market to go along with it. > >> > >> Closer to my neck of the woods is the annual Shelby Hamfest, an event > that's well more than a few decades old and boasts several thousand in > attendance and even offers campground space for the folks they know are > traveling far and bringing families along. > >> > >> Based on these events alone I'd say ham is alive and well and far from > extinct. > >> > >> Personally I think the swapmeet is a fantastic idea and has much > potential. > >> -Joshua A > >> > > > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > > New Kensington, PA > >

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Sussex hamfest and swapmeets
by Sentrytv 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

I’d like to say that you guys (Girls) put on a very good Hamfest, it is unfortunate that this year it had to be canceled. I have been going there probably for the better part of 20 years, selling and buying. All of my friends who are into radio equipment have found some really good deals there. I must say that you guys have the most diverse Hamfest/swap meet in NJ. Mike Rosen Looking forward to going next year. Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > On Sep 16, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Leavitt via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > Not to flog a deceased equine but... > Sussex County NJ is home to a great hamfest too. > > We have over a thousand buyers through the gates and over 200 sellers. Ann and I usually run the kitchen. We see all kinds of folks. > > 73 de KE2L > > ________________________________ > From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> on behalf of Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 10:33 PM > To: W2HX via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Cc: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) > > > Butler, PA is in the middle of nowhere and generally consists of an > odd mix of farmers and meth addicts, but there's one hell of a hamfest > there every year. I too thought hamfests had pretty much died, but then > I was very happily corrected! I never miss that one. > > Of course, every year at the Butler hamfest I run across constipated > old men standing around complaining about how ham radio (not hamfests, > but ham radio) is dying. Sometimes I'm in a snarky enough mood to > interrupt and inform them that it's bigger than it ever has been, but I > usually just shake my head and leave them to their bran muffins. > > -Dave > >> On 9/15/20 9:41 AM, W2HX via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >> I'll pile on 'cause I'm a ham (don't mess with us! Haha). >> >> I frequently attend NEARfest which is a spring and fall hamfest event in the New England area. I don’t know the exact attendance numbers but if I had to guess I would say "a few thousand" when the weather is good. There are more hams licensed with the FCC today than ever before in history. Over 760,000 in the US alone (according to Wikipedia). >> >> And growing! http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202014.jpg >> >> Worldwide the number is about 3,000,000 (again according to Wikipedia). I wonder how many vintage computer hobbyists exist the world? Maybe we should learn something from the hams. >> >> 73 Eugene W2HX >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Joshua Abraham via vcf-midatlantic >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:47 PM >> To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org >> Cc: Joshua Abraham <jarvideo(a)gmail.com> >> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) >> >>>> I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many >> families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, and that makes communities wither and go extinct. >> >> I couldn't help but weigh in on this. Before making snide remarks such as these it may help to make sure you have actual data to back that up. >> Hamfests can be rather small and boring but others are MASSIVE coordinated events with large attendance. Most notably, the annual Dayton Hamvention which had an attendance of over 32,000. This event is to hams what VCF is to us vintage computer enthusiasts. The event is hugely successful and they have a full on flea market to go along with it. >> >> Closer to my neck of the woods is the annual Shelby Hamfest, an event that's well more than a few decades old and boasts several thousand in attendance and even offers campground space for the folks they know are traveling far and bringing families along. >> >> Based on these events alone I'd say ham is alive and well and far from extinct. >> >> Personally I think the swapmeet is a fantastic idea and has much potential. >> -Joshua A >> > > > -- > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > New Kensington, PA

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Not quite so linked lists (of books)
by Herb Johnson 15 Sep '20

15 Sep '20

Pardon me, Adam, but I'm a little challenged by your proposal and discussion and how it's progressing. First - it's so open ended and vague. What kind of vintage computing, do you want these book-readers to be interested in, or become interested in? What do you want them to do with that interest? What is the audience, what people, do you want to reach with that interest - who are they, what experiences or age or knowledge do you expect them to have? And what's your goal, your end result, your benefit, and for whom? Remember, you aren't just some person asking for books to read. I presume you have goals for VCFed Incorporated, or the museum at Infoage, or maybe something you personally or professionally are working on. But I don't know! and, pardon me - I have decades of computing experience. There's 40 or more years of "vintage computers" around from my own life; and older computers still. Plus all kinds of uses they were used for, ways they can be used now, things people do with them. Or they make their own vintage-class computers. Or they repair the old stuff, or hot-rod 'em. For each activity, there's some kind of entry point, something one can read about and get interested. That's point one - I don't know your plans, your interests, except as you tell people why their books won't work for you. Or any other details that inform me about a list YOU want for your purposes - as you seemed to indicate. Someone suggested a book with technical content; you said it would "scare off the average person". I'm of two minds about that thought. My initial reaction, as a technical person myself, is to be rude and say "scare off average persons? *good*, weed them out early". I'm not average. Many of the people I know in vintage computing, are not "average", many of them have extraordinary skills or interests, or enthusiasms. And: are the people in those suggested books, "average"? Are they doing "average" things? NOt at the time, that's why there's a book about 'em! And is working with old computers now, an "average" kind of thing? And: If you are looking for readers, to do things or be interested in things, or at least be interesting - why target books for *average persons*? What's up with "average"? Along those lines: knowledge of Windows 10 and OS X as a kind of credential? That's essentially a license to steer a modern computer. As soon as such a person sees a command line, or a program listing, or a computer chip - do you expect them to be particularly comfortable? I find, quite frankly, I have to talk people *out of their Windows expectations* as they deal with problems with their vintage computers. What they expect, isn't what happens, isn't how they work. Finally: there's people of all kinds of ages and skills-sets, that may want to look at vintage computing in some way. A particular book, may be a point of entry - depends on that person, and the book's content and context. IF that's your goal. This "average person" thing, and what you think "vintage computing" is about, and what you want some book to accomplish for someone - that all leaves me perplexed. But of course, the museum at Infoage attracts all kinds of people who visit it. Many of them are "average" in some way - or seem that way. Maybe you are trying to do some outreach, some kind of educational thing. Or maybe you want bland-non-technical books about great heroes in technology - gripping narratives that will hold the interest of most anyone. I dunno! So I'm back to square one. If all you want is a conversation, well, be fair about that and say so. Anyone can have some favorite books for some particular reason, if they want to chat about both. And Adam, if you have real goals and intentions, and specific interests, be clear about them when asking for a list from me. Then I can decide if I have some books worth YOUR interests to read, and my interests to write about. Regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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KennettClassic 1 Year Anniv / Swap 9/26
by Bill Degnan 15 Sep '20

15 Sep '20

1 year anniversary new exhibits and swap It will be 73 degrees and sunny Spaces still available. 484 732 7041 Please help support this project, COVID has been rough we can use a boost from the vcf community to help build the local hobby community. Benefits all. https://www.kennettclassic.com/kennett-classic-in-two-weeks-sept-26-2020/ Thanks Bill

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Mac SE PRAM battery - replace with a holder
by Richard Cini 14 Sep '20

14 Sep '20

I just dug out my old Mac SE to check the battery and it needs replacing. In the SE, it’s soldered to the motherboard. I have replacements, both with leads (the original) and without (to be used with a holder). Other than not being original, any concerns or pitfalls with this approach? I couldn’t think of any but I thought I’d throw it to the group. I still need to check the clearance on the cage, though. Rich http://www.classiccmp.org/cini Long Island S100 User’s Group Get Outlook<https://aka.ms/qtex0l> for iOS

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Not quite so linked lists (of books)
by Adam Michlin 13 Sep '20

13 Sep '20

Hi Everyone, I'm embarking on a, hopefully fun, project to create lists of books for various vintage computer related projects. The first one is as broad as them come: What five books would you recommend to someone completely new to the hobby? Parameters: Let us assume the people are adults (children's books will be a separate discussion). Books can be currently published or vintage.. physical or digital... Let us also assume the readers have a basic understanding of how to use a standard (say Windows 10 or macOS) computer. If possible, please include why you think the book should be on the list. I'll be buying (the ones I do not own) the most (quantity and quality) recommended books, reading them, compiling my recommendation for the final list, posting it here for people to tear apart, and then ultimately posting it publicly in an appropriate space. Please post to the list so that other people can see your recommendations (and maybe even find a book they want to buy!). Oh, and feel free to recommend even just one book. The more information the merrier! Thanks! -Adam

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Not quite so linked lists (of books)
by Ken 13 Sep '20

13 Sep '20

At 9/13/2020 06:44 PM, Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >Racing the Beam by Ian Bogost and Nick Montfort: About Atari a great game >making company. Also shows how hard it was to program games back then. Racing the Beam was a fantastic book. It wasn't about Atari the company. It was about the Atari 2600/VCS as a technical platform, and was a really compelling technical study about the interplay between a platform and what's created for it. It focused on the machine's architecture, and then on a few titles written for it, each highlighting something fascinating about platforms. While technical, it was also accessible. It's one of my top-favorite technical studies of all time. And, if you're not already familiar with the 2600's design, it does really heighten one's appreciation for how intensely challenging programming for it was, and how impressive those developers were. It looks like this is my second-ever message to this listserv responding to Jeffrey on the subject of this book. Five years ago, I wrote this: Jeffrey, I strongly second Adam's recommendation of "Racing the Beam: The Atari Video Computer System," written in 2009 by Nick Montfort and Ian Bogost. https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/racing-beam I found it well written and well researched. It gets technical enough to be interesting, without getting too technical to scare anyone off. I would love to read another book as similarly compelling. (It didn't read like a dissertation to me!) There have been many books like "The Soul of a New Machine" ("Dreaming in Code," etc.) which are all about the people and politics behind the development of a system. But "Racing the Beam" was primarily about the system itself, and it focused brilliantly on the most compelling and instructive moments in the evolution of 1977's Atari 2600 platform. You will learn just how stupendously hard it was to program for that platform. And, to the authors' goal, you will learn how significant a platform itself is, and what kind of heroics it takes to move beyond the constraints and intended capabilities of a platform. Here are a couple of excerpts, which illustrate what it was like to work on a system that had no operating system, nor even a concept of a 2-dimensional screen grid to write to: ...the VCS programmer must draw each frame of a programs display manually to the screen, synchronizing the 6507 processor instruc- tions to the televisions electron gun via the TIA. The program has a small amount of time to change the TIA settings via its numerous addressable registers. This can happen when the electron beam resets to draw a new line (this period is called horizontal blank), or when it moves back up to the top to draw a new screen (a period called vertical blank). The program must also explicitly instruct the TIA to wait for the horizontal blank or to initiate the vertical blank, which involves keeping track of how much time the instructions take to execute on a single line, between lines, and between frames. Programming the Atari VCS means drawing every line of the television display individually, making decisions about how to change the display on a line-by-line basis rather than setting up a screen- ful of pixels all at once. This task requires that the programmer write carefully timed code that fits the motion of the televisions electron beam. Some graphical effects demand changes to the TIAs registers in the middle of a single scan line. In these cases, the programmer must care- fully cycle count processor instructions so they execute at the right time. While racing the beam is a catchier name, pacing the beam is more apt, since the program might have to be sped up or slowed down. [...] The basic flow of Combat follows the progress of the TVs electron beam, busily preparing each line that is to be drawn while the current one is appearing on the screen. During the vertical blanking interval, as the beam moves from the bottom of the screen to the top, the VCS running Combat does the computation necessary to process input, deal with game logic, and update the score if necessary. The first routine in Combats main loop checks the position of the VCS console switches. A game can be reset at any time, so it is necessary to check these controls each frame. This routine allows different game variations to be selectedif a game is not already in progressand, if a game is in progress, it also checks to see whether time is almost up and the score should be blinking. This routine also underscores the fact that the programmer is responsible for handling every interaction on the machine. The Atari VCS has no operating system to intercept inputs and respond to common ones. Thus, even though the reset switch is clearly labeled reset on the console cabinet, it is up to each cartridge programmer to write a program that responds to the switch being pressed. The programmer can choose to have a cartridge do something other than reset the game when the reset switch is closed, just as different games might use the joystick button for different actions. Although this was rare, there are examples of games that override the function of the console switches as printed on the console. - Ken

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