- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Revised, My take on "what is vintage computing"
by Herb Johnson 23 Dec '20

23 Dec '20

>> "Bit slicing is a technique for constructing a processor from modules of >> processors of smaller bit width, for the purpose of increasing the word length." > Okay bit processors were CPU construction sets. :-) In the late 70's, bit-slice processor sets were used for high-speed activities like floppy-drive and hard-drive controllers, maybe graphic boards, maybe fast-math boards. Microprocessors of the time were too slow. Chip-sets like Western Digital's for floppy or harddrive control (ie custom microcontrollers) weren't invented yet. Only mainframes and minis were a market for discrete-logic controllers. So bit slices filled a need at the time. Look for old bit-slice stuff among those controllers, on S-100 and Multibus boards, and on mini's like PDP-8's, 11's, Novas, etc. You'll also see non-CMOS high-speed processors, like Signetics 8X300. A kind of predecessor was ALU chips like the 74XX181 chips, with related carry and shift and register chips in the series. Again - minicomputer CPUs were often constructed from such chips. Some CPUs were made from bit slices too. They were all the bleeding edge at some point. David Gesswein mentioned the Tektronix graphic terminals as an example. Regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net

2 1

Revised, My take on "what is vintage computing"
by Herb Johnson 23 Dec '20

23 Dec '20

Bill writes in his Web article: > Some say the golden era of “vintage computers” occurred during mid-1970’s S-100 homebrew-era and lasted until about 1987. This is when the home appliance and small business computing markets emerged. Computers became practical to a wider population. I was in my 20's in the 1970's as a student and working electrical engineer on microprocessors. I"ve worked with some of those computers to the present day. So I'm qualified to speak about the period, express my informed opinions. But: it's Bill's Web site and article and thread. I won't compete by posting another article. I'll make a few points I think are important. From my experiences, I can say that a lot happened in the years Bill mentions. Too many kinds of things, to sum up with one phrase like "golden era". also: every generation has their early days which they retrospectively think of as "golden". For Millennials, it's playing video games in their bedroom - not building an IMSAI memory board. History is different, for people of different ages and experiences. He's right about emerging markets, because of course there WAS NO MARKET for personal or dedicated computing products and devices, until the microprocessor and related digital IC's were created; and then understood; and then became cheap. That created opportunities for the markets that emerged. What markets? Video-gaming computers. Single board computers for training and for hobbyist self-learning. Computers of many boards, for industrial control and the first home/business/scientific computers. Portable computers (lugable before laptop). And eventually: standardized desktop computers produced in quantity to reduce price. Each market has a history of its own, origins and consequences. Also: this idea of "homebrew" as a kind of distinction. I don't like the term, it makes the idea of home construction and modification as something like making illegal whiskey. This part, I'll have to explain, it's my history but not the history of people younger than I. The facts are: in the 1950's and 60's and 70's, lots of people built and repaired things at home, using shop tools of industrial quality. Many people had JOBS and businesses to repair and manufacture, small shops of a few or dozens of people. Trade schools, mail-order education, self-education - all ways to learn a trade, get a job, *start your own company*. This was common activity at the time - read any science or hobby magazine of the period for the advertisements, the how-to articles. Also: if you are going to talk about 1980's personal computing, there's a single, seismic event you cannot ignore. *The introduction of the IBM PC in 1981*. The world's foremost computer company, announced it was ENTIRELY ACCEPTABLE for a Fortune 500 company (definition of a big important international company) to purchase what was previously a toy, a pipe dream. Quoting from the era: "nobody was ever fired for recommending IBM". That's dramatic, but it also happens to be true. With the 1981 IBM PC, MS-DOS became the standard. The ISA bus became the standard. The 8088/86 became standard. And I assure you: the microcomputer world fractured into those who followed IBM - and those who were left behind (in the opinion of the winners who transitioned to the IBM PC). And once IBM PC's could outperform the old but useful CP/M machines - they went into the dumpster. (that's where I got part of my collection!) However: most of the early IBM PC MS-DOS software, was reassembled CP/M software. All that CP/M and S-100 and Z80 / 8080 work was not scrapped: it was retooled for the IBM PC. IBM's success was built on preceding technology and technologists. Another major event in the 80's, was the rise and fall of "home videogaming". Over several years, a bunch of companies produced video game computers. They all competed and drove each other's prices down. Then the market crashed because of those financial losses, and because home computers (IBM PC's among others) of growing availability could run games too, faster, with more graphics. Graphics became a thing. My point? History matters, your time in history matters, and what you value (or know about) matters to you and people you know. Too much happened in microprocessor computing in its first decade, to lump it all into one historic track. The period Bill describes, is so far back in time for most people, they don't know how to make sense of it - except from recent experiences which are very different from those of the time. So it comes down to: what you care about, because of what you know, generally from your own time and place. "History" is about learning the other stuff. Regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net

1 0

Slightly OT -
by Martin Flynn 22 Dec '20

22 Dec '20

With the last work weekend in the Building 9001, CDL now has static IP space available. To that end, we are spinning up a Citadel BBS on current HPE hardware. This a simple support decision as running 30+ year old kit in a production environment is more then we want to tackle. Going to throw this out to to the membership for naming options, here's a few contenders, would like to hear opinions * CampEvans * TheFort * ProjectDiana * CDL * Tiros * graybeard Dialup from off-site is not an option at this point, we can support it on-site if needed for VCFe (via a Cisco 2600 with a 24 port card) Martin Flynn

5 15

OT: 2 free Casio keyboards
by Jeffrey Jonas 22 Dec '20

22 Dec '20

I salvaged 2 Casio keyboards: free for the taking at the next workshop. But please reply ASAP: I cannot store them for long. [obligatory vintage computer link: electronic music is part of computer history] Casio CTK-551 midi in and out web says: 61 FULL-SIZE KEYS with TOUCH RESPONSE (ON/OFF) 100 SONG BANK TUNES SONG BANK CONTROLLER CHORD BOOK function PITCH BEND WHEEL Casio LK-230 Lighted Personal Keyboard, 61 Keys, with New Voice Pad Feature USB interface -- jeff jonas

1 0

Revised, My take on "what is vintage computing"
by Bill Degnan 21 Dec '20

21 Dec '20

I revised an article I wrote the other day to further define my take on "what is vintage computing" from the hobbyist perspective. https://www.kennettclassic.com/the-new-generation-of-classic-computing-hobb… Bill

5 5

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OT: XP p to v
by mark＠markesystems.com 21 Dec '20

21 Dec '20

From: Kelly Leavitt <kelly(a)catcorner.org> > Good afternoon all, > This is Kelly from the vcfed. I was wondering if anyone had experience in > converting physical machines to run in a virtual environment. It just > seems like a skill I can find in this group. > > I'm trying to help a friend convert an old XP machine that runs custom USB > hardware into a virtual environment so he can keep using his equipment. > > I have it running under VMWare, but it's not 100% stable. I get BSOD on > shutdown about 50% of the time and about 10% of the time on system > startup. I've removed all drivers for old non-needed equipment, did a > repair XP install, installed the guest applications for XP and disabled > sound and graphics acceleration already. I've been using VirtualBox to host an XP machine for some time, including some limited USB pass-through (serial ports, but actually passing the USB through to the XP and installing the FTDI driver there). It has been unconditionally stable, and I find that the performance is fine also. In fact, when my ancient (2003) version of SolidWorks stopped working on Win-10 after a recent update, I installed it on the Virtual XP machine, and not only does it run fine there, it's also about 50% faster! So, you might give VirtualBox a try (install the "Guest Additions CD" too), and I'd definitely try to figure out how to do a clean install of XP. Perhaps you could run the current flawed version enough to extract the user's software and various drivers; here's a little batch file that should grab the drivers: %homedrive% cd “%homepath%\my documents” md DriverBackUp cd DriverBackUp xcopy %windir%\system32\Drivers /r /y xcopy %windir%\system32\DriverStore /r /y xcopy %windir%\inf /r /y pause In some cases drivers may need some registry tweaks or other dlls, and must be installed using the manufacturer's original installer, but very often just pointing Windows to the DriverBackUp (or whatever you called it) directory when installing the hardware on the new machine will work just fine. You can use Dependency Walker (dependencywalker.com) to find any referenced dlls; if you find any, you'll need to manually copy them to the right place on the new system, then use regsvr32 to register them so that XP can resolve any references to them. As far as moving the (presumably custom) software application to a new machine, that can range from easy (copy the executable) to impossible (the creator put things in non-standard places, and/or has a zillion widely scattered registry entries). I've had some success copying the executable and its whole directory (C:\Program Files\<whatever>), then using Dependency Walker to find dlls, ocxs, etc. it may have stashed in other places (like Windows\System32). Hopefully a search of the registry using the applications name (or a substring of it) will reveal at least some of the registry entries, and perhaps provide clues to where other might be lurking. Note that you'll need to register ocxs as well as dlls, if you find any. You mentioned that the budget didn't extend to a "new" XP machine; consider that you could easily spend a day tinkering with this, and how much your time is worth... ~~ Mark Moulding

1 0

OT: XP p to v
by Kelly Leavitt 20 Dec '20

20 Dec '20

Good afternoon all, This is Kelly from the vcfed. I was wondering if anyone had experience in converting physical machines to run in a virtual environment. It just seems like a skill I can find in this group. I'm trying to help a friend convert an old XP machine that runs custom USB hardware into a virtual environment so he can keep using his equipment. I have it running under VMWare, but it's not 100% stable. I get BSOD on shutdown about 50% of the time and about 10% of the time on system startup. I've removed all drivers for old non-needed equipment, did a repair XP install, installed the guest applications for XP and disabled sound and graphics acceleration already. Thanks, Kelly

3 3

Read or Reply to VCF mailing list from a BBS?
by John Heritage 20 Dec '20

20 Dec '20

Is there any sort of way to read and/or reply to this VCF mailing list from a BBS?

3 2

Commodore ECOs
by Richard Cini 20 Dec '20

20 Dec '20

All – I’m working on a VIC-20 project related to another project on 6502.org. I’m looking at two difference VIC-20 schematics for the “cost reduced” VIC-20 (with the drawing number 251027-01). One set is Revision C and the other D. Is there a list somewhere of the Commodore ECOs so I know what the changes are? Thanks! Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

1 0

IMSAI & Keyboard
by Bob Aviles 20 Dec '20

20 Dec '20

Hi all, I am working on TEI System S-100 the machine seems to be in great condition so far, Haven't put it on yet still need to check caps? I am looking for two items: 1. Front panel IMSAI panel for the TEI. 2. Amiga 2000 keyboard this is for my 2000 systems. Just in case you have one of these, how much? or trade. Happy Holidays to all! Bobby

1 0