- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward
by Ethan O'Toole 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

> Apple without Steve Jobs is nothing special. But... teddy bear Woz!!! - Ethan > [NON-Text Body part not included]

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving forward
by Andrew Diller 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

Woz just said "hold my beer..." > > Apple without Steve Jobs is nothing special. >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Ken Thompson video
by Michael Brutman 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

Wow Bill, that was amazing. Let's correct a few things. There are plenty of user groups and clubs both in the Pacific Northwest (where I live) and in Silicon Valley (where Erik lives). For you to ask people to think about "why is there no club out west or north west?" is absurd. (For the record I was active at the local Seattle Retrocomputing Society.) Nobody tricked Evan into giving up his board position. He wanted a paid position in line with what an executive director does - day-to-day operations of the museum in NJ. While an important position, it is not a board level position. So nobody should be surprised if they give up a board position and then don't have a say on board level decisions. I wasn't on the board at the time but this is pretty obvious. What is this business of which you speak? The one where the most of us pay our own travel expenses and volunteer dozens to hundreds of hours a year? The one that we also actively hustle to get donations for? That doesn't sound like a business to me; it sounds like a labor of love. We formed the steering committee to give local people who volunteered a museum more autonomy and oversight over the things they were directly working on. Other people wanted a voice and a say in what happened there. It couldn't be bottlenecked or controlled by one person anymore. This is how you grow and scale an organization. The idea that this was some nefarious plot to have somebody else get rid of Evan is insane, and it fits with the rest of this bullshit conspiracy theory crap you are spinning. We don't control all of vintage computing, nor do we want to. I'm not sure if you've been paying attention or you just like to act like you know what is going on, but we've been freely advertising the other VCF events both in the US and Europe - go look at the website. That was actually a big change after Evan left the board - Evan was a lot more likely to demand that people shouldn't be using the VCF name, which was not a valid demand to make. We don't own the IP. The current national board has been a big believer in a rising tide lifts all boats; we actively cross promote the other groups. "The new VCF West and northwest shows were formed after Brutman and Erik Klein joined the board and they pretty much own them through the board." Fact: the VCF West event was resurrected before I joined the board. VCF PNW came after I joined in 2018. I don't own PNW in any form, through the board or otherwise. I'm just the slob volunteer who launched it and did the majority of the organization for two years. Do you really think I benefited financially or I own anything as a result of having run VCF PNW in 2018 or 2019? What exactly did I get from it? What is this ownership that you refer to? "I suppose no one cares about the breakdown of east vs west revenue, but suffice it to say it ain't even" I don't even know what to say about that, other than it demonstrates such a lack of critical thinking that it is mind boggling. Yep, East has more revenue. No question. But let's look at where the revenue goes. VCF PNW ran in 2018 and 2019 and was two weeks away from running in 2020 before COVID-19 killed it. VCF PNW made a modest amount of money both years, and *all* of the money went back to the org. So sure, East has more revenue than PNW. But not a single dime of any money has stayed in the Seattle area. It all went back to VCF to support the museum, the web hosting, the workshops, etc. It certainly isn't even .. it all goes back to the VCFed, the nexus of which is the museum in NJ. Erik's story with West is going to be similar. Heck, even in 2020 after all of the expenses for VCF PNW were mostly sunk and the event was cancelled *I still managed to hustle* and turn a profit for the org. I had 200 t-shirts made up that I couldn't sell in person. I've logged over 100 hours invoicing and mailing t-shirts, raising money that probably would have been written off because we didn't have in-person events this year. And we still managed to get most exhibitors and volunteers a free t-shirt for their efforts. The t-shirts raised awareness for VCFed and also helped keep the lights on this year when our other sources of revenue dried up. That's not bad when you consider what happened to actual functioning museums with real payrolls that had to close this year. When I launched VCF PNW in 2018 I explicitly did not charge a gate fee, and it was the first event that we ever planned to operate that way. We explicitly wanted the event to be accessible to spread the word and raise awareness. It succeeded and we did it again in 2019. Does this sound like an evil corporation trying to wrest control away from the people who built it? Moving the museum? Another conspiracy theory. The only talk about ever moving the museum happens when we are talking about the leaky warehouse roof or the viability of InfoAge as a site. Nobody has ever even thought about relocating unless we get forced out of InfoAge or have to flee because they can't maintain the site anymore. Bill, your time on the VCFed board was spent criticizing and throwing rocks, but never actually doing anything. Stop grossly mis-representing what happened and what goes on there now. I busted my ass for VCFed. Erik busted his ass for VCFed. Jeff busts his ass for VCFed. Corey busts his ass for VCFed. You didn't do crap. For the record, unrelated to this little side-show, this morning I announced to the other board members that I was going to be winding down my involvement as a board member and opening up a spot for a new person. Over four years we are going to turn two out of five board positions over. I think that is a healthy turnover rate. You are doing your thing with Kennett Classic, which is a business that you own. Don't imply that we're doing anything like that with VCFed ... we're volunteering and making a difference, and we can demonstrate it. You've just found a good way to turn a hobby into a business deduction. There is a big difference between what we do and what you do.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF-MA Steering Committee Election Update
by Dean Notarnicola 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

Technically, a member is someone who simply subscribes to the mailing list. In spirit, a member is someone who becomes further involved in VCF affairs, either by becoming informed by reading the list, attending VCF functions, volunteering, etc. This is how we define membership for the purposes of voting and participating in steering the direction of the organization. Regards, Dean On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 7:53 AM Ben Greenfield via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Hello All, > > Adam, thank you for that update. I admit to only vaguely following the > list these days but had no idea that this is what has been going on. > > My question is regarding membership. How does VCF know who it’s members > are. > > During the formulation period I think it was rolled into VCF exhibit fees. > > I’m happy to be member but not really sure how it works. > > Thanks, > > Ben > > > On Nov 11, 2020, at 7:45 AM, Adam Michlin via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > I am beyond excited by not only the quantity of people but also the > quality > > of people running for the two steering committee positions. > > > > Some background for those interested. At this time last year, the > National > > Board, consisting of three west coast members and two east coast members, > > recognized it was difficult for them to oversee day to day operations > from > > afar and bravo to them for recognizing this. The initial decision was > made > > to have the executive director report to one of the individual board > > members. This was a bad decision and I said so loudly. Many of you work > at > > all levels of both for profit and nonprofits and know this is a recipe > for > > chaos. > > > > The executive director balked at this, rightfully so, and issued an > > ultimatum. As many of you also know, issuing an ultimatum to your > employer > > never ends well, but I want to be clear that the National Board created > an > > untenable situation albeit with the best of intentions to solve a clear > and > > present problem. As such, I made the point that the ultimatum be allowed > to > > be walked back (an extremely rare thing for any organization to allow). > To > > the absolute credit of the National Board, they agreed. > > > > I then proposed the Steering Committee (SC) as a way to oversee east > coast > > operations by people with literal feet on the ground and the National > Board > > agreed. Initially, however, I rejected the notion of being appointed to > it. > > I wanted to be voted to it or not be on it at all. I truly believe and > > still believe that VCF is an organization of its members and each member > > must get a say in how we do business for the organization to grow. > Growing > > up isn't always fun and games, but you either grow or you shrink, you can > > never stay the same. > > > > Better minds convinced me that the SC needed to first formulate an > > environment amenable to an election and I agreed to participate for one > > year with the stipulation that my seat would be the first up for > election. > > If people liked what I did. Great. If not, they have every right to vote > me > > right out. Life (and Covid) intervened and I'm not running again due to a > > relocation to South Carolina. I'm still working as the national social > > media specialist, though (an appointed position, for what I hope are self > > evident reasons). Bottom line, and I'm thrilled to say this, we have an > > election process and each and every one of you has a vote. > > > > This election is a chance for you to suggest the direction you want VCF > to > > go in and then follow up and make it happen with your vote. Respond to > this > > email and tell us all, especially the candidates, things that need to > > improve. Tell us things you like. Tell us what direction *you* want VCF > to > > go in. > > > > And (sorry, I know how tired we are all of hearing this for a different > > election), vote. > > > > -Adam > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 9:13 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < > > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > >> Update! The following is the list of current nominees: > >> > >> Ian Primus - Nominated by Adam Michlin > >> Alex Jacocks - Nominated by Jeff Brace > >> Tony Bogan - Nominated by Dean Notarnicola > >> Dave McGuire - Nominated by Chris Fala > >> Jason Perkins - Nominated by Evan Koblentz > >> > >> Nominees should feel free to make statements in support of themselves, > if > >> desired. > >> > >> Please keep the nominations coming! > >> > >> Regards, > >> Dean > >> > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Ken Thompson video
by Dave McGuire 11 Nov '20

11 Nov '20

On 11/10/20 11:52 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > Last year I got Ken Thompson to come to VCF East and arranged for > Brian to be there too. > > The video reached 100,000 views today: https://youtu.be/EY6q5dv_B-o > ... no other VCF video is even close. I'm quite certain that I'm not the only person who wants to say something negative about this post. But, I'm honestly rather tired of being the guy who speaks up and says what everyone else is thinking, and gets a dozen or more private replies in agreement, but not a single public voice of agreement. So, I will keep my mouth shut and let someone else perform the service. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Ken Thompson video
by Tony Bogan 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

There’s obviously a lot to running the show Evan, no one ever disputed that. My point was simple, I’m sorry you missed it, so here it is again. You keep touting Ken Thompson and throwing it in my face, even though I clearly said it was a huge score and we all congratulated you on it, but in the end it wasn’t even your idea to ask him, period. Did you give credit to anyone else? Nope. Did you physically tie him up and bring him there or did you communicate (obviously successfully by the way) with him through phone and emails? Getting His interviewer was also a great idea, and something multiple people discussed. Again, not just your idea. I’m sure it was an oversight on your part not mentioning that either. You keep knocking Jeff and belittling him as the show runner for a show that YOU bailed out of only months before without notice to anyone (you quit in a hissy fit on the public list without so much as a heads up to anyone) after you had just said you were at least going to stay till after vcf East. Then Covid happened, which no one could account for, but we still pulled off a great virtual show. Was great to see all the positive feedback from you on that one by the way. Your positive posts on the list keep coming fast and furiously. But you keep taking credit for all the great things you did In the past Evan, I’m sure there’s something you did that you haven’t rammed down everyone’s throat at least once or twice. Context matters, even if it doesn’t matter to you. Tony Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 10, 2020, at 6:49 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > <mime-attachment>

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Re: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Ken Thompson video
by laurakid 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

Wow.... Hope everyone has a restful evening. That was intense 😊 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Tuesday, November 10, 2020, 7:22 PM, Doug Crawford <memphis(a)ptd.net> wrote: So Laurakid doesn't stand alone, I have heard nearly verbatum the same take on the events of last year from everyone who has expressed their opinion. I concur with her assessment too. The same behavior was seen last Festivus during the "suggestion" session, right? Anyone remember how that went? It was pretty much a microcosm of our collective experience over the years. We tire of the repeated gloat and jab. Either fold in some way constructively or go away, please. DC On 11/10/2020 2:36 PM, laurakid wrote: was in response to David’s post.... i see the thread has grown Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Tuesday, November 10, 2020, 2:32 PM, laurakid via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: Ok I’ll do it.... My reaction to Evan’s post is that it is petty and (not so) passive aggressive. With all of planning for Festivus going on without him, he is reliving past misperceptions of being tossed out of VCF. In reality, the group he started had grown with the help of many who he refused to let grow up with it. Once VCF became a non-profit and a board was in place, he was annoyed that he could no longer be “president”. No one ever challenged Evan’s importance and his role as the founder and leader of VCF. However, after years of having suggestions, ideas, and objections fall on deaf ears, the board members came to an agreement to form a committee so that VCF could be operated and developed with a democratic process rather than what often seemed like a dictatorship. Evan, I apologize that this sounds rash, but in person we had conversations while working together in the warehouse where you admitted that you were annoyed at people for not doing things your way and that other members were on your nerves with opposing views. You also admitted that you were extremely stubborn and reluctant to listen to or acknowledge the contributions of others, myself included. I think you are a generally decent guy who like all humans has flaws. Currently, those are coming out in your recent posts. You created something great and when it grew, you continued to work with great people to make it even bigger and better. But when it got big enough that you needed to cooperate more with others, you opted out. In closing: A parent must let their teenager have more freedom to make their own decisions despite their objections to let them grow and thrive. You were a great parent, and still can be, you just need to let your child grow up. You can remain a part of it’s life if you can understand that it is growing up and has its own ideas. Throwing “I told you so” at it will only grow frustration and resentment. Hope all is well with you and that this message is read as the constructive criticism it was meant to be. Best, Laura Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Tuesday, November 10, 2020, 12:19 PM, Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On 11/10/20 11:52 AM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > Last year I got Ken Thompson to come to VCF East and arranged for > Brian to be there too. > > The video reached 100,000 views today: https://youtu.be/EY6q5dv_B-o > ... no other VCF video is even close. I'm quite certain that I'm not the only person who wants to say something negative about this post. But, I'm honestly rather tired of being the guy who speaks up and says what everyone else is thinking, and gets a dozen or more private replies in agreement, but not a single public voice of agreement. So, I will keep my mouth shut and let someone else perform the service. -Dave

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Ken Thompson video
by Tony Bogan 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

It was an exaggeration. The commentator asked what to do. The show runner told them it was time to stop. Same same. They obviously wanted to continue, otherwise they wouldn’t have asked. It was readily apparent to everyone. Except you. Adam and I had DOZENS of people who were flabbergasted at the decision to stop the discussion come and complain to us at the computer/software store. It was the single biggest complaint we received at the event. Cutting them off mid sentence was not what happened, you are correct. You waited for them to ask what to do, and then cut the discussion off. Apologies for the misrepresentation to those who may not have watched the video. Tony Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 10, 2020, at 3:30 PM, Evan Koblentz via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > <mime-attachment>

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POSTPONED -- Vintage Repair Weekend 11/14-11/15 at System Source
by rar 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

We are postponing the repair weekend at System Source due to a local spike in COVID-19 over the past week. Several of the surrounding counties and Baltimore City have restricted events to ten or fewer people, and we expect similar restrictions to go into effect by Friday evening in Baltimore County. To a healthier 2021! We expect to host again in February 2021 and November 2021. Bob Roswell broswell(a)syssrc.com 410-771-5544 ext 4336 Computer Museum Highlights<http://museum.syssrc.com/> [cid:image001.png@01D6B769.A2D5FBB0]

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Ken Thompson video
by Alexander Pierson 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >VCF MW and VCF E are two different kinds of show. That doesn't invalidate the two other VCFed-run events that have both elected to run exhibits/talks simultaneously. If anything, that makes East the outlier if West, PNW, and MW are all doing it that way. Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >as a veteran exhibitor it's frustrating that you can't really walk around as much as you'd like, and you miss the things going on at the festival sometimes. I concur. It's why I've appreciated having help at my exhibit table, so I can step away for a moment to take photos, talk to people, etc. as needed. Still, there are at least 5 places I'd like to be at any given moment during a show and the exhibit gets priority. So it goes. Jason Howe via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >which helps assuage the disappointment of missing Joe Decuir's keynote last yearThat's unfair to you. We may elect to be an exhibitor and be part of the show, missing presentations important to us just isn't right if you ask me. So, how do we break this down? The VCF East approach is simply that the exhibit floor and keynote timeframes do not overlap, but that means only one keynote per main show day and the full day of classes and smaller subject talks. The rest of the VCFs have the two overlap, and take a more laissez faire approach (with VCFMW being the extreme example), where people duck out to see a talk and then come back. Having more than a few talks one wishes to attend throughout the day results in an empty booth, and the logic that lead us to the first approach. And I fully understand why people want to avoid seeing them unattended for too long. My point is that there has to be a happy middle ground between the die-hard "we must be shackled to our exhibits" mentality and leaving computers to their lonesome as we socialize and watch the presentations. Not everyone wants to see talks, and not everyone wants to stay at the table all day long. Other events of our caliber do this, especially the larger ones, so it's something to consider why the no-overlap approach isn't as common. Take my perspective with a grain of salt. -Alexander 'Z' Pierson On Tuesday, November 10, 2020, 02:23:42 PM EST, Jason Howe via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On 11/10/20 11:06 AM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > Overall flow and schedule and all that is hard to maintain when it's not > all in the same place. People can bring "look but don't touch" signs or > guidance stanchions to place in front of their exhibits for times when no > one is present to guard the goodies. Of course I never did this, but as a > veteran exhibitor it's frustrating that you can't really walk around as > much as you'd like, and you miss the things going on at the festival > sometimes. > > Bill > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 1:57 PM Dean Notarnicola via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> I think exhibitors can make the decision to be responsible and go back to >> their exhibit at the appropriate time. Best of both worlds. Why should >> attendees have a talk limited by the availability of the exhibitors? >> When I've exhibited at the PNW show, the exhibits are open all day, even while the keynotes are going on. As an exhibitor, I always took the approach that I'm part of the show, one of the performers if you will, that the attendees have just paid money to come see. I'm member of the body of VCF, evangelizing about my particular interest niche, educating passers by on why it's the coolest thing in the world and worthy of preservation. I'm not arguing for one approach over the other, just sharing how I look at it, which helps assuage the disappointment of missing Joe Decuir's keynote last year, even while I was exhibiting a system he designed. :) --Jason

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