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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine
by Richard Cini 18 Sep '20

18 Sep '20

Glenn - I have several Asante ethernet cards "in stock" but I never thought of putting one in the SE (I have one on my IIci). I also have a Raspberry Pi laying around. Are Debian images still around? Sounds like a project... Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32 On 9/18/20, 8:30 AM, "vcf-midatlantic on behalf of Glenn Holmer via vcf-midatlantic" <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org on behalf of vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: On 9/17/20 6:13 PM, David Riley via vcf-midatlantic wrote: Actually, IMO, the best option is: if you can get an Ethernet card in the SE, you can run Netatalk 2.x on Linux or NetBSD (both still support AppleTalk, but netatalk 3.x does not). I'm keeping an old version of Debian on a Raspberry Pi so I can run Netatalk 2.2 for my Mac SEs. Is there anything current that will support AppleTalk? -- Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682) "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine
by Herb Johnson 18 Sep '20

18 Sep '20

Rich Cini says: have an old System 7 or 8 Mac, it put files on a Mac format ZIP disk. Then run a recent-enough OSX (pre 10.15) Mac that can read the ZIP disk via a USB ZIP drive. OK, got that. But I got lost when Rich said "use an emulator to get the files into the emulation environment". Rich, were/are you trying to copy files onto some modern computer, to make use of them with modern software? Or ... copy files ... to *run* them under some emulation of say Mac System 7? Or, both? People ask me about such things often enough. It would be good if I can tell them what they may be able to do. Most people won't want to run an emulator, they just want to migrate old files or at least archive it. I always warn them of the problem of old programs that make files, that new programs can't read (even if you "copy" them over to the new computer). regards, Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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Moving files from an old 68k-Mac to an emulator or other machine
by Richard Cini 18 Sep '20

18 Sep '20

My IIci is on the fritz (need to re-cap it), and I wanted to get some files off of my mother’s old (and long unused) Macintosh SE. I thought I’d mention this archiving path in case someone else is in the same boat. Unfortunately, it requires more than one type of Mac, and multiple ZIP drives, so if there are other possibilities, I’d like to know. I worked with only what I had on hand (i.e., I didn’t buy any extra hardware), but I’m sure there is a better way. There are several parts to this: The original Mac SE (800K floppy only) A Mac that can read/write both 800k and 1.4MB disks (since the IIci was out-of-commission, I used my PowerBook 540c). Two iomega ZIP drives. It just so happens I have both SCSI and USB versions. A more current Mac that runs OSX *prior to* Catalina (10.15) since Catalina dropped support for HFS. I have a Mac Mini that runs El Capitan (10.11). It took a bit of time to set everything up, but basically you have to get the iomega Zip Client onto the original Mac. Assuming you have no original disk, you can use HFVExplorer to put zipclient4.2 onto a 1.4MB floppy and then use the second Mac to move the file to an 800K disk. I didn’t have a spare external 1.4MB drive to test on the SE, but not sure it works without a ROM upgrade. The second part is to use the SCSI ZIP drive on the SE to copy the files to a ZIP disk. The third part is to use the USB ZIP drive on the modern Mac to get the files off of the disk. So far, so good. Then, you can use Basilisk or other emulator that can access the host’s file system to get the files into the emulation environment. The help file for HFVExplorer says it can access the ZIP drive, but I wasn’t able to get it to work. Thus, the need to use the two lifeboat Macs to get the files into the emulation environment. I thought about Stuffing the files and then using a terminal program to send them to the modern Mac, but I couldn’t get MacTerminal to work properly; maybe a better terminal program would have worked. Happy archiving! Rich -- Rich Cini http://www.classiccmp.org/cini http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32

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Museum Report: 9 September and 16 September 2020
by svcatitc＠aol.com 17 Sep '20

17 Sep '20

Checked in and opened up around 1p Sept 9th :: DEAD, only one older gent who had been to IA before and was considering volunteering at IA now retired. We exchanged pleasantries while discussing general computer topics. Sept 16: Two couples showed up around 1/2 hour between. 1st couple was younger, and only a medium interest. She seemed bored to tears, while he showed the most interest, which picked up when we got to the PS2 70. He wanted to know more about the bootup process. Older couple was an EXCELLENT audience, as they both had 40 years of programming experience. The wife, in the very early years, talked to Bill Gates on the phone about a programming problem she had. The husband, worked with Cray on an install in his early years. Both live in North Jersey and will be back with the grand kids. They had smiles on their faces the whole time they were in the place, reminiscing. Ray Chase stopped by to show me a military electro-mechanical computational device that had to do with pressure. Talked with some of the guys that maintain the marine wireless association exhibit next to us. Good day! Bill Inderrieden

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Altos 586 boards
by Herb Johnson 17 Sep '20

17 Sep '20

I don't normally post Ebay links. But someone is offering an Altos 586 model CPU board and Altos 986 controller board on ebay as scrap. Parts value or possible repair of an Altos may be worth the price. Vintage 1982 Altos Computer Circuit Mother Boards Chips for Scrap Gold Recovery ebay #233714235023 Ends Sept 22 Regards Herb -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8)
by Joshua Abraham 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

>> I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, and that makes communities wither and go extinct. I couldn't help but weigh in on this. Before making snide remarks such as these it may help to make sure you have actual data to back that up. Hamfests can be rather small and boring but others are MASSIVE coordinated events with large attendance. Most notably, the annual Dayton Hamvention which had an attendance of over 32,000. This event is to hams what VCF is to us vintage computer enthusiasts. The event is hugely successful and they have a full on flea market to go along with it. Closer to my neck of the woods is the annual Shelby Hamfest, an event that's well more than a few decades old and boasts several thousand in attendance and even offers campground space for the folks they know are traveling far and bringing families along. Based on these events alone I'd say ham is alive and well and far from extinct. Personally I think the swapmeet is a fantastic idea and has much potential. -Joshua A

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Kennett Classic Dinner Afterwards Info
by Bill Degnan 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

Anyone interested in going out as a group for dinner after the event closes here is what I have so far 6PM. I have had a few people contact me already to let me know they are interested, keep them coming. I am going to speak with the restaurant owners (I know a few of them) within walking distance to see what the best deal is for us, depending on how many people we have by about Weds or so, with the assumption that there will be persons joining in at the last minute. I will try to get a group rate/deal so we can keep it simple, but *nothing is simple with COVID 19 *and I ask that you be flexible. Dinner will be outside, and I am leaning towards the Kennett Brewing Company a block away. (kennettbrewingcompany.com) because they usually have a band that night. Other options are La Verona and The Grain which also have outdoor dining. We will organize seating based on who can sit together with their masks off. If that's not practical we'll have the restaurant pack it up and we'll eat outside using the tables from the swap or as we can. Stay tuned and let me know via https//www.vintagecomputer.net/contact.cfm Thanks.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Sussex hamfest and swapmeets
by Matt Reynolds 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

This is mostly anecdotal, from a fringe, barely-active member, so take it for whatever it is: I got to Hamfests on a regular enough basis, even though I'm not a ham. I've been to some of the bigger ones like Sussex and Dayton and many, many small ones. I think it's very reasonable to say that it's a dying hobby, but is not dead. There's just more to do from a hobby standpoint than ever before, and only so much time in the day, and only so much time on the planet to live your life. There may be more members now, but there are more people on the planet now as well, and part of the boom rush in getting more members was dropping the Morse Code requirements. I'm in a different vintage electronics club and many of them have said that they never bothered to learn, or waited until the code requirement dropped before they took the test. Of course it's evolved, more digital and exotic than it was in the past. Less heavy boatanchors, more things that look more like computer parts than radio parts. More computer related than ever before. I've been to many estate sales of "silent keys" as well. The only people I see buying the heavy ham gear are other hams, which are most of the time within the same age range as the silent key who just passed. Very seldom do I see young guys at those types of sale picking up their first set of gear to get on the air with. The hamfest attendance still seems to me to be in the vast majority men, 50s and above to almost every fest i've been to. Are there younger men, women, kids? Absolutely (I'm not even in my 40s yet). Are they deliberately exclusive? no. There's just not a lot of enticement for anyone else to go to them unless they are already interested in the topic. I go primarily because the trend seems to be for most hams to buy some very expensive new rig that is small, not heavy, and does more, and the vintage stuff, including their test equipment, and quite often computer\consumer electronics, goes to the sale with them alongside their old boatanchor radios. The mentality of "this hamfest is not as big as it used to be" mentality seems to be something I've heard at almost every one I've ever attended, including Dayton, and is something that is brought up without ever mentioning it or asking about it. The toxicity of that mentality and similar companion attitudes in the hobby have been part of the reason I haven't prioritized taking the cert exams. I've never been "talked down to" by elders in any other enthusiast group as often as at hamfests. Asking questions seems to give you a gruff brush-off more often than it should, and more often than I encounter at other swap meets (car parts shows, coin-op shows, antique shows, collectible shows, etc.). It's a really strange phenomenon, because some of my best friends are hams and are on the opposite side of that mentality spectrum. The old fixture of the hobby, an "Elmer" or graybeard-like person there to help teach the others seems to be harder and harder to find at hamfests, because there are so many of the naysayers there polluting it for the Elmers. It doesn't take much to turn people off to a hobby when someone is only mildly curious to begin with. Many times I've thought to myself, why would I bother to get certified to get on the air to talk to grumpy old people talk about how things aren't as good as they used to be and brag about how expensive their radio is? I realize that it is not the only thing that happens, but I've encountered more of the grumps than the Elmers. Back to the original point, I can also see why having a swap meet takes away from an event where you are having exhibits and panels. I've been to other shows that have both at the same time, and I often feel torn between digging through the treasure and watching the panels or events. Maybe you are pondering whether to buy something or not, and while you are thinking about it you go to a panel, and you spend half the panel whether or not you should go buy that thing, or whether it's still there, etc. On the flipside, you have stuff you don't want anymore, you want to get rid of it. It's esoteric and the audience that knows what it is doesn't walk into the flea market everyday, online sales are not always attractive, etc. Seems like the best idea would be to have a separate event that was just a swap meet? Based on the replies already sent back and forth on this topic, there seems to be plenty of demand for one. Regards, Matt nocallletters On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 1:07 PM Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > I’d like to say that you guys (Girls) put on a very good Hamfest, it is > unfortunate that this year it had to be canceled. > > I have been going there probably for the better part of 20 years, selling > and buying. > All of my friends who are into radio equipment have found some really good > deals there. > > I must say that you guys have the most diverse Hamfest/swap meet in NJ. > > Mike Rosen > > Looking forward to going next year. > > > > Sent from: > My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > > > On Sep 16, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Leavitt via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > Not to flog a deceased equine but... > > Sussex County NJ is home to a great hamfest too. > > > > We have over a thousand buyers through the gates and over 200 sellers. > Ann and I usually run the kitchen. We see all kinds of folks. > > > > 73 de KE2L > > > > ________________________________ > > From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> on > behalf of Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 10:33 PM > > To: W2HX via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > Cc: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - > Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) > > > > > > Butler, PA is in the middle of nowhere and generally consists of an > > odd mix of farmers and meth addicts, but there's one hell of a hamfest > > there every year. I too thought hamfests had pretty much died, but then > > I was very happily corrected! I never miss that one. > > > > Of course, every year at the Butler hamfest I run across constipated > > old men standing around complaining about how ham radio (not hamfests, > > but ham radio) is dying. Sometimes I'm in a snarky enough mood to > > interrupt and inform them that it's bigger than it ever has been, but I > > usually just shake my head and leave them to their bran muffins. > > > > -Dave > > > >> On 9/15/20 9:41 AM, W2HX via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > >> I'll pile on 'cause I'm a ham (don't mess with us! Haha). > >> > >> I frequently attend NEARfest which is a spring and fall hamfest event > in the New England area. I don’t know the exact attendance numbers but if I > had to guess I would say "a few thousand" when the weather is good. There > are more hams licensed with the FCC today than ever before in history. Over > 760,000 in the US alone (according to Wikipedia). > >> > >> And growing! > http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202014.jpg > >> > >> Worldwide the number is about 3,000,000 (again according to Wikipedia). > I wonder how many vintage computer hobbyists exist the world? Maybe we > should learn something from the hams. > >> > >> 73 Eugene W2HX > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On > Behalf Of Joshua Abraham via vcf-midatlantic > >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:47 PM > >> To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org > >> Cc: Joshua Abraham <jarvideo(a)gmail.com> > >> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - > Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) > >> > >>>> I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many > >> families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, > and that makes communities wither and go extinct. > >> > >> I couldn't help but weigh in on this. Before making snide remarks such > as these it may help to make sure you have actual data to back that up. > >> Hamfests can be rather small and boring but others are MASSIVE > coordinated events with large attendance. Most notably, the annual Dayton > Hamvention which had an attendance of over 32,000. This event is to hams > what VCF is to us vintage computer enthusiasts. The event is hugely > successful and they have a full on flea market to go along with it. > >> > >> Closer to my neck of the woods is the annual Shelby Hamfest, an event > that's well more than a few decades old and boasts several thousand in > attendance and even offers campground space for the folks they know are > traveling far and bringing families along. > >> > >> Based on these events alone I'd say ham is alive and well and far from > extinct. > >> > >> Personally I think the swapmeet is a fantastic idea and has much > potential. > >> -Joshua A > >> > > > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > > New Kensington, PA > >

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Sussex hamfest and swapmeets
by Sentrytv 16 Sep '20

16 Sep '20

I’d like to say that you guys (Girls) put on a very good Hamfest, it is unfortunate that this year it had to be canceled. I have been going there probably for the better part of 20 years, selling and buying. All of my friends who are into radio equipment have found some really good deals there. I must say that you guys have the most diverse Hamfest/swap meet in NJ. Mike Rosen Looking forward to going next year. Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > On Sep 16, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Kelly Leavitt via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > Not to flog a deceased equine but... > Sussex County NJ is home to a great hamfest too. > > We have over a thousand buyers through the gates and over 200 sellers. Ann and I usually run the kitchen. We see all kinds of folks. > > 73 de KE2L > > ________________________________ > From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> on behalf of Dave McGuire via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 10:33 PM > To: W2HX via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > Cc: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) > > > Butler, PA is in the middle of nowhere and generally consists of an > odd mix of farmers and meth addicts, but there's one hell of a hamfest > there every year. I too thought hamfests had pretty much died, but then > I was very happily corrected! I never miss that one. > > Of course, every year at the Butler hamfest I run across constipated > old men standing around complaining about how ham radio (not hamfests, > but ham radio) is dying. Sometimes I'm in a snarky enough mood to > interrupt and inform them that it's bigger than it ever has been, but I > usually just shake my head and leave them to their bran muffins. > > -Dave > >> On 9/15/20 9:41 AM, W2HX via vcf-midatlantic wrote: >> I'll pile on 'cause I'm a ham (don't mess with us! Haha). >> >> I frequently attend NEARfest which is a spring and fall hamfest event in the New England area. I don’t know the exact attendance numbers but if I had to guess I would say "a few thousand" when the weather is good. There are more hams licensed with the FCC today than ever before in history. Over 760,000 in the US alone (according to Wikipedia). >> >> And growing! http://www.arrl.org/files/media/News/Ham%20Radio%20Stats%202014.jpg >> >> Worldwide the number is about 3,000,000 (again according to Wikipedia). I wonder how many vintage computer hobbyists exist the world? Maybe we should learn something from the hams. >> >> 73 Eugene W2HX >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On Behalf Of Joshua Abraham via vcf-midatlantic >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 7:47 PM >> To: vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org >> Cc: Joshua Abraham <jarvideo(a)gmail.com> >> Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF East Swap Meet - Save the Date - Saturday November 7 (Rain: Sunday November 8) >> >>>> I was right about that, and I was right about hamfests. How many >> families and kids excitedly go to a hamfest? Swapmeets are incestuous, and that makes communities wither and go extinct. >> >> I couldn't help but weigh in on this. Before making snide remarks such as these it may help to make sure you have actual data to back that up. >> Hamfests can be rather small and boring but others are MASSIVE coordinated events with large attendance. Most notably, the annual Dayton Hamvention which had an attendance of over 32,000. This event is to hams what VCF is to us vintage computer enthusiasts. The event is hugely successful and they have a full on flea market to go along with it. >> >> Closer to my neck of the woods is the annual Shelby Hamfest, an event that's well more than a few decades old and boasts several thousand in attendance and even offers campground space for the folks they know are traveling far and bringing families along. >> >> Based on these events alone I'd say ham is alive and well and far from extinct. >> >> Personally I think the swapmeet is a fantastic idea and has much potential. >> -Joshua A >> > > > -- > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ > New Kensington, PA

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Not quite so linked lists (of books)
by Herb Johnson 15 Sep '20

15 Sep '20

Pardon me, Adam, but I'm a little challenged by your proposal and discussion and how it's progressing. First - it's so open ended and vague. What kind of vintage computing, do you want these book-readers to be interested in, or become interested in? What do you want them to do with that interest? What is the audience, what people, do you want to reach with that interest - who are they, what experiences or age or knowledge do you expect them to have? And what's your goal, your end result, your benefit, and for whom? Remember, you aren't just some person asking for books to read. I presume you have goals for VCFed Incorporated, or the museum at Infoage, or maybe something you personally or professionally are working on. But I don't know! and, pardon me - I have decades of computing experience. There's 40 or more years of "vintage computers" around from my own life; and older computers still. Plus all kinds of uses they were used for, ways they can be used now, things people do with them. Or they make their own vintage-class computers. Or they repair the old stuff, or hot-rod 'em. For each activity, there's some kind of entry point, something one can read about and get interested. That's point one - I don't know your plans, your interests, except as you tell people why their books won't work for you. Or any other details that inform me about a list YOU want for your purposes - as you seemed to indicate. Someone suggested a book with technical content; you said it would "scare off the average person". I'm of two minds about that thought. My initial reaction, as a technical person myself, is to be rude and say "scare off average persons? *good*, weed them out early". I'm not average. Many of the people I know in vintage computing, are not "average", many of them have extraordinary skills or interests, or enthusiasms. And: are the people in those suggested books, "average"? Are they doing "average" things? NOt at the time, that's why there's a book about 'em! And is working with old computers now, an "average" kind of thing? And: If you are looking for readers, to do things or be interested in things, or at least be interesting - why target books for *average persons*? What's up with "average"? Along those lines: knowledge of Windows 10 and OS X as a kind of credential? That's essentially a license to steer a modern computer. As soon as such a person sees a command line, or a program listing, or a computer chip - do you expect them to be particularly comfortable? I find, quite frankly, I have to talk people *out of their Windows expectations* as they deal with problems with their vintage computers. What they expect, isn't what happens, isn't how they work. Finally: there's people of all kinds of ages and skills-sets, that may want to look at vintage computing in some way. A particular book, may be a point of entry - depends on that person, and the book's content and context. IF that's your goal. This "average person" thing, and what you think "vintage computing" is about, and what you want some book to accomplish for someone - that all leaves me perplexed. But of course, the museum at Infoage attracts all kinds of people who visit it. Many of them are "average" in some way - or seem that way. Maybe you are trying to do some outreach, some kind of educational thing. Or maybe you want bland-non-technical books about great heroes in technology - gripping narratives that will hold the interest of most anyone. I dunno! So I'm back to square one. If all you want is a conversation, well, be fair about that and say so. Anyone can have some favorite books for some particular reason, if they want to chat about both. And Adam, if you have real goals and intentions, and specific interests, be clear about them when asking for a list from me. Then I can decide if I have some books worth YOUR interests to read, and my interests to write about. Regards, Herb Johnson -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT info

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