August 2021 - vcf-midatlantic

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Happy Birthday IBM-PC
by Ethan Dicks 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 4:27 PM madodel via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > I don't think anyone had GB of anything back in the 80's. I remember back > then when our IBM mainframe was upgraded to 1mb of core memory and that was > serving 3 hospitals with 100's of terminals. When I first started working at Software Results in the Fall of 1984, me and one of the other student workers were marveling at the 32-bitness of the VAX-11/750 (with 8MB of physical RAM in a 4GB virtual address space) and trying to envision how expensive and how large *Four Gigabytes* of RAM would be, and it was *immense*. This same machine (8MB RAM) could handle 70 dumb terminal users, but to be fair, it did swap a bit over 40 users. The two fattest apps we had were were VMS MAIL and MASS-11 (word processing). -ethan

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Happy Birthday IBM-PC
by Chris Fala 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

I had a VIC back then. (I know I told this story before, but here it is again.) It was a gift from my sister who worked at Commodore at the time (she worked in sales under Kit Spencer, and often worked with Mike Tomczyk and Jack Tramiel). I used to think she got my computer with her employee discount, but it was more like the employee-walk-out-the-door-with-whatever-you-want discount (Bil Herd recently confirmed this was a thing that was done with approval). I only had a tape drive and maybe one cartridge (no floppy drive). I wrote several games in BASIC, plus other programs to do useful things. A few years ago, I found many of my programs on an old cassette tape, and yes, I transferred them to floppy. One game I am currently re-developing for the C64. I spent many hours programming on my VIC. I also built a couple simple circuits to interface with it. The 22 column screen was a challenge, but it forced you to be creative. Plus I didn't have a RAM expansion, so working within 3.5k was another challenge, a barrier that I slammed up against on one particular program. It was fun learning all the memory optimization techniques. I was spoiled in school in 8th, 9th, and 12th grades where I got to use TRS-80 Models 1 and III (taught myself BASIN on them before I got the VIC), but the VIC was all mine, and that made it better! Chris On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 9:34 AM Alexander Pierson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > February '81, eh? Did anyone else have a VIC-20 when it was relatively > new? What was your experience like? > > Contrasting that, is there anyone here who actually got their hands on an > IBM 5150 within that first year? > > I find the VIC gets a bit of an unfair shake these days, seen as an > underpowered toy/game system. However, I see it as the little machine that > could. The VIC-20 is my favorite vintage computer, hands down. Don't > believe me? http://commodorez.com/img/vicportrait1000.jpg > > -Alexander 'Z' Pierson > _ > On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 4:56:59 PM EDT, Richard Cini < > rich.cini(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I got my VIC in February 1981 (9th grade). Upgraded to a Fat Mac in 1985. > I didn’t get anything PC-ish until I was half-way through college (a > DeskPro 386/16 with 5 MB of RAM and a 42mb hard drive; still have that > machine too). My point was more that 40 years is a long time. > > On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 4:50 PM Alexander Pierson via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > >I think I was still using my VIC-20 then. > > You make it sound like it was old in '81, however: Happy 40th birthday > Commodore VIC-20 too. Yes, technically it was released in Japan in '80, > but nobody here lived in Japan/had a VIC-1001. I've never heard a > concrete, verifiable answer on what month it was released in the US. Just > vaguely mid-summer. > > -Alexander 'Z' Pierson > _ > On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 7:45:02 AM EDT, Richard Cini via > vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > August 12, 1981 at a news conference in NY, IBM introduced the PC. 40 > years ago. Holy cow. I think I was still using my VIC-20 then. > > Rich > > http://cini.classiccmp.org/ > Long Island S100 User’s Group > > Get Outlook<https://aka.ms/qtex0l> for iOS > > > > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Happy Birthday IBM-PC
by Ethan Dicks 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 9:34 AM Alexander Pierson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > February '81, eh? Did anyone else have a VIC-20 when it was relatively new? What was your experience like? I got one in late 1982 or early 1983 when the price dropped a little bit (I think I paid under $100). I got it from the department store that my high school girlfriend was working at the time. It was definitely an early 9VAC unit, not the later one with the DIN power connector. I already had a PET (2001N-32) and a C-64 and 1541 so I was able to immediately use the 1541 with it. I typed in a few games from magazines/books and I wrote some programs to play with the sound and color a bit (exploring the differences between the VIC-I and VIC-II chips). I also did a little hardware hacking because the expansion connector was standard 22-pin edge connector and, of course, the User Port connector had a lot of overlap with the pinouts of the PET and C-64. The most elaborate thing I made was a DEC FlipChip module tester by wiring a 6821 to the expansion bus and to a single DEC backplane connector. I did some small software exploration of that device but never worked out the massive wad of vector tables one would need to make it really useful. > Contrasting that, is there anyone here who actually got their hands on an IBM 5150 within that first year? I got my first job in March, 1982, at Bruce and James/Software Labs (two companies, same owners, one public-facing, one a captive development resource for the public-facing company). Their flagship product was "WordVision", a word processor for "PC-DOS 1.0 or higher, 256K required, at least 1 floppy drive required". My job was writing the demo for the never-produced C-64 "home version" of WordVision. We had 2-3 5150s at work that Spring/Summer. I didn't do a lot on them, but I did use them occasionally. I didn't form a very favorable opinion of them from my experience. All of the flaws and limitations stood out to me, and there wasn't much software at the time that really leveraged any of the positives (like way more RAM than a typical home computer of the day). My opinion was if you were going to spend that much, just get a loaded Apple II. One thing stuck with me from that job was when the boss kept saying "wait until the 'Peanut' (PCjr) comes out. It's going to change the world!" At the time, the 5150 was so expensive that it wasn't expected to make many inroads into the home market (which is why we were planning a C-64 version of the product), so IBM's home offering was going to clear the decks at that tier while maintaining dominance in the office. But then the clones happened... -ethan

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I would say don't buy this
by Bill Degnan 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133839458723 Nah. Missing a CPU board, looks like my definition of "dry storage" is different than this guy's.

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Apple I replics for sale
by Bill Degnan 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

thanks Mike. On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:54 AM MikeWillegal via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Hi Bill, > > I don’t think there is a significant difference in functionality of > clones. I believe they all exhibit the faults of the original, although, > like the original, there are some board to board variations in scope of the > various problems. > > Replicas are a different matter, and it bothers me that most do not > support cassette tape input/output, which puts those sort of replicas into > a not really workalike category. I would argue that adding a Brain Board > to an Apple II gets you closer to a true work-alike functionality than > those replicas that lack cassette tape interfaces. > > Let me clear up a misconception. The only intentional difference between > a Mimeo and an original Apple 1, is the logo I put into the copper layer on > the back. > > There are some unintentional differences. > > 1) The modern PCB substrate and manufacturing process is different than > the original. The original type substrate isn’t made any more because it > is incompatible with modern PCB manufacturing processes. > 2) A lack of information due to the non-existence of bare board original > Apple 1s caused a few mistakes, most of which were corrected in later > batches, as the mistakes were discovered. > 3) The difficulty of reproducing a board that was laid out by hand taping > methods which despite the great skill of Howard Cantin lead to some > variation in the layout. Note that the Apple II was laid out digitally and > was somewhat easier to clone. > > I have found it somewhat amusing over the years how Apple 1 clone makers > have frequently copied mistakes made in various versions of the Mimeo. > > best regards, > Mike Willegal

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Happy Birthday IBM-PC
by Dean Notarnicola 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

Working or not, I’d love to borrow it for the upcoming VCF east PC exhibit! On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 9:52 AM Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > I picked up a while ago a > Columbia a MPC 1600 (dual floppy) or at least I believe that’s the model > I had read online that it is a clone of the IBM. > It does not work, but it will be a work in progress as soon as I get to it. > > Mike R. > > > Sent from: > My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > > > On Aug 13, 2021, at 9:34 AM, Alexander Pierson via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > > > <mime-attachment> > >

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Re: Apple I replics for sale
by MikeWillegal 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

Hi Bill, I don’t think there is a significant difference in functionality of clones. I believe they all exhibit the faults of the original, although, like the original, there are some board to board variations in scope of the various problems. Replicas are a different matter, and it bothers me that most do not support cassette tape input/output, which puts those sort of replicas into a not really workalike category. I would argue that adding a Brain Board to an Apple II gets you closer to a true work-alike functionality than those replicas that lack cassette tape interfaces. Let me clear up a misconception. The only intentional difference between a Mimeo and an original Apple 1, is the logo I put into the copper layer on the back. There are some unintentional differences. 1) The modern PCB substrate and manufacturing process is different than the original. The original type substrate isn’t made any more because it is incompatible with modern PCB manufacturing processes. 2) A lack of information due to the non-existence of bare board original Apple 1s caused a few mistakes, most of which were corrected in later batches, as the mistakes were discovered. 3) The difficulty of reproducing a board that was laid out by hand taping methods which despite the great skill of Howard Cantin lead to some variation in the layout. Note that the Apple II was laid out digitally and was somewhat easier to clone. I have found it somewhat amusing over the years how Apple 1 clone makers have frequently copied mistakes made in various versions of the Mimeo. best regards, Mike Willegal

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Happy Birthday IBM-PC
by Sentrytv 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

I picked up a while ago a Columbia a MPC 1600 (dual floppy) or at least I believe that’s the model I had read online that it is a clone of the IBM. It does not work, but it will be a work in progress as soon as I get to it. Mike R. Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > On Aug 13, 2021, at 9:34 AM, Alexander Pierson via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > <mime-attachment>

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Happy Birthday IBM-PC
by Richard Cini 13 Aug '21

13 Aug '21

I got my VIC in February 1981 (9th grade). Upgraded to a Fat Mac in 1985. I didn’t get anything PC-ish until I was half-way through college (a DeskPro 386/16 with 5 MB of RAM and a 42mb hard drive; still have that machine too). My point was more that 40 years is a long time. On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 4:50 PM Alexander Pierson via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >I think I was still using my VIC-20 then. > > You make it sound like it was old in '81, however: Happy 40th birthday > Commodore VIC-20 too. Yes, technically it was released in Japan in '80, > but nobody here lived in Japan/had a VIC-1001. I've never heard a > concrete, verifiable answer on what month it was released in the US. Just > vaguely mid-summer. > > -Alexander 'Z' Pierson > _ > On Thursday, August 12, 2021, 7:45:02 AM EDT, Richard Cini via > vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > August 12, 1981 at a news conference in NY, IBM introduced the PC. 40 > years ago. Holy cow. I think I was still using my VIC-20 then. > > Rich > > http://cini.classiccmp.org/ > Long Island S100 User’s Group > > Get Outlook<https://aka.ms/qtex0l> for iOS > > >

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Apple I replics for sale
by Bill Degnan 12 Aug '21

12 Aug '21

Saw this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/294039736399 I am curious what others think of this board. I own a different one already but I was curious, should anyone ask, what are the best replica Apple I motherboards 1) closest to original 2) best functionally I ask because the original board is not as good "functionally" as a modern board made to look like one, i.e. it may not be as reliable because of the manufacturing technique of the original board. I know Mikes has intentional differences put into his replica so it does not come off as an original board, some of these do try to reproduce everything. I am sure Mike and Corey have seen everything and I am curious what they and anyone into replicas of Apple I's think here. Bill

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