August 2021 - vcf-midatlantic

Calling retro TV people…
by David Riley 05 Aug '21

05 Aug '21

There’s a full Cartrivision set for sale (local pickup only) in Wisconsin. Thread for context: https://twitter.com/foone/status/1423369057181454339?s=21 The auction itself: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265252238312

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Found an IBM XT in my garage.
by Neil Cherry 05 Aug '21

05 Aug '21

I'm doing a bit of cleanup around the house an suddenly found an IBM XT (think it's really a real XT). It has many boards and a full height drive in it. Unfortunately a mouse made a nest in it. So some cleanup effort on my part will be needed. BTW, I have no idea where this came from. I only thought I had the IBM PC motherboard. Any words of wisdom? -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] OFF TOPIC GNR tickets
by Ethan O'Toole 05 Aug '21

05 Aug '21

Guns and Roses had a song called "You Could Be Mine" used in the movie "Terminator 2." In the movie Terminator 2, John Connor hacks things with an Atari Portfolio palmtop. So there is a vintage computer connection. Also the thing about the "terminator vision" containing 6502 assembly or something. I saw GNR in the early 90s with Skid Row opening for them. Unforrtunately I am in Virginia so no use for tickets. Have fun whoever gets them. Wave your Atari Portfolio in the air during that song.

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OFF TOPIC GNR tickets
by Sentrytv 05 Aug '21

05 Aug '21

I was sent two tickets to Guns & Roses for tonight starting at 6 PM. I can’t go. The concert is in East Rutherford New Jersey If you want to go, send me your email and I’ll forward the PDF (must be printed for admission) first one in, can have them. I’ll let everybody know when they are gone. Mike Rosen Sent from: My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device.

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[OT] Anyone Want a 27" Sony Trinitron TV?
by Herb Johnson 05 Aug '21

05 Aug '21

> Alexander Jacocks > There's a person living near me who is offering, for free, a 27" Sony > Trinitron TV. If anyone is interested, let me know, > -- I literally just posted, in the "what is vintage" thread, "who collects LCD TVs?" as a counter point about interest in vintage computers. So this is more on-topic than you'd think. Some people think personal computing was *all about graphics and gaming*, and so about displays. The Sony Trinitron CRT was an advance on color CRTs. Not sure where a 27-inch comes in, by age. They made pretty big CRT monitors! There are persons interested in CRT monitors in our cohort. Regards, Herb Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net

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How old is "vintage"?
by Herb Johnson 05 Aug '21

05 Aug '21

> Joshua Abraham > I would agree that the time range and qualifications are varied. > > By the book though, vintage usually is defined as an authentic and significant item about 20 years or older. So a good example: The IBM AT would be vintage. A random 286 clone... perhaps not. > > Now defining retro, that’s a whole other can of worms. Haha. > > -Josh “Singularity” So, I read this post offline. I composed a response to this, and took some time to do so. Before I posted, I looked ahead and saw that others made similar points. I see common themes of PROCESS, on matters related to "vintage computing". Putting hard dates on what-is-vintage, well, pardon me, that's an operational decision one makes for specific purposes. Here's my considerations on process. - Herb ----------------------------------- There is no "book", as there's no authority that establishes vintage computing. Vintage isn't about significance. Significance is about "interest" and then "value". Vintage is primarily a measure of age, then largely a matter of out-of-use. The notion of "authenticity" means "not a modern copy"; there are copies of vintage computing items; some were copied in the era, some later, some now. Two ways one can look at age. 1) "things from when you were a kid". 2) "things older than *now*". So 20, 25 years from now-present computers - one or two computer "generations" - is an convenient way from both views, human and tech, to describe some "vintage" computers if only as "too old to be current". I'm old, so age matters to me, I can look back multiple human generations. And: computing advanced rapidly, so "a generation" of computing is a short HUMAN span of time. Here's what I mean about each. ---------------------- Given, personally owned computers became generally available, sometime in the mid-late 1970's (That's me.). MITS Altair era. Technical professionals and those learning-about. So "about a computer generation" after 1975 was an era of lots of home gaming, mass-produced and distributed computers. While thousand of people had original experiences with MITS Altairs; *millions* had experiences with C64's and Atari's and Apple II's. Numbers matter (it goes to value too). Also: mass small-business computing, as in IBM PC's which became PC's in-the-home, but still for doing business, finance, word processing, and so on. People often separate "home gaming" from "boards in a box" computing - I do. Another "generation" is 2000. Everyone had some kind of personal computer, at home and work. You could find them in thrift stores. They started to become disposable. And yet, with Linux, they were still useful. Availability and use was called at the time "the digital divide". People had programmable cell phones by then, kind of small computers and certainly calculators. Also: tablets, and then "netbooks" - tablets that use remote programs not locally-operated programs. "computing" was becoming about connectivity to services. And now, in the 2020's: it's quite possible to not own "a computer" at all. One owns a smartphone, it's not a computational device. TV's are on cables and networks: they are not "computers". We know what people do with smartphones and TV's. And most old smartphones don't have value - if you think about it, it's because they can't do much by themselves, So now, personal information technology is about connectivity, it's about apps which are connected to services including a service to provide content. Example? Remember owing a DVD player and lots of DVD's? Or CD's? Or "video tapes"? Depends on how old you are. What's the "vintage computing" interest counterexamples? No disrespect meant. Calculator collecting may have peaked in general interest in the 1990s? Smartphone collecting, doesn't seem to be too popular. Anyone collect LCD TVs? These are out of my collector-experience zone, I'm trying to make sense of historic trends. So in a certain sense, in 2020 we may be at the end of "personal computing", as valued items obtained for private experience with information technology for "programming" or running arbitrary programs. Current "tech" are items for consumption, access to services. No service, slow service - no value. These devices become disposables - not as failed devices but from owner's BOREDOM; or because of end-of-service. Some were disposable when *sold*. Converse argument? Under-30's who collect 286-386-486 systems, to run classic games. It's stuff *outside* their age-experience, but conceptually it's like playing a gaming device or app "now". Social trends can "invert" to become trendy. It's an interest! I'm not trying to start fights. I'm making points about being retrospective about "vintage computing". "how old" just starts the discussion. It matters more about how old you are, your relationship "back then" with some kind of information technology, and your relationship NOW with either your past or with present information technology. And it matters, how these technologies were designed, then sold and marketed and used. And, what they can do now (if functional). You can divide eras by those criteria. I and others argue, those are the factors that determine interests (and also values-of) in "vintage computing". Regards, Herb Johnson retrotechnology.com -- Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net

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[OT] Anyone Want a 27" Sony Trinitron TV?
by Alexander Jacocks 05 Aug '21

05 Aug '21

All, There's a person living near me who is offering, for free, a 27" Sony Trinitron TV. If anyone is interested, let me know, and I will try to pick it up and bring it to the workshop, next weekend. - Alex

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VCF Mid-West 16 (2021)
by Jeffrey Brace 05 Aug '21

05 Aug '21

So who's going? Looks like I'm going to be able to go this year despite it being a busy time for me helping with West and organizing East. I'm making the effort since I have never been and only heard from other people about this show. I booked a flight and looking into hotels and wondering what the availability of uber/lyft rides from the airport look like. ========================================= Jeff Brace Vice President & Board Member Vintage Computer Festival East Show-runner Vintage Computer Federation is a 501c3 charity http://www.vcfed.org/ jeffrey(a)vcfed.org

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] How old is "vintage"? Found an IBM XT in my garage.)
by Dave McGuire 04 Aug '21

04 Aug '21

On 8/4/21 6:25 PM, Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > There are classifications for collector cars. > Vintage Car: Manufactured between 1919 and 1930 > Antique Car: Manufactured 1975 or earlier (>45 years old) > Classic Car: Manufactured 1990 or earlier (>20 years old) > Maybe this can be applied, to some degree, to computers as well. This has been discussed many, many times over the years. I don't think it can be applied, because computers vary a whole lot more than cars. If we were saying "home computers", maybe yes. But computers in general, no way. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

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OT: Looking for recommendations on new soldering station
by Bob Shuster 03 Aug '21

03 Aug '21

I'm looking for a recommendation for a new soldering station. I think it's time to retire my 40+ year old Archer soldering pencil - that I've had at least since I built my first TRS-80 Model I expansion interface, maybe longer! I'm looking for compact, with an auto-off feature, temperature controlled, and a variety of tips. Is this pretty much every current station? I'm looking at the Hakko FX888, or maybe the less expensive X-Tronic 3020? Mainly I repair or modify vintage electronics, but occasionally modern stuff where I need a finer tip and less heat. Thoughts/recommendations? Thanks. - Bob Shuster

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