- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Neil Cherry 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

On 10/29/24 12:30, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > My vote is for MAACE (or MACE) > > Mid-Atlantic Apple Computer Enthusiasts > 😉 Yeah, go eat a burger. ;-) (Folks that's not meant as an insult). And I like the name MARCH (still have the Polo). I liked being a MARCHian. ;-) No, I don't have anything more constructive. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry kd2zrq(a)linuxha.com http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies KD2ZRQ

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Tony Bogan 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Functionally doesn’t change the fact that VCF MA (did we suddenly decide now it’s MARCH without any further discussion? I want MACE seriously considered :-) does not own or have any rights to the collection. This was made abundantly clear to those of us that created the 501c in the first place almost 10 years ago. Additionally, what was originally intended doesn’t change the fact you just stated. Namely that most of the money comes from National and has since the start. Just trying to keep the discussion real and on point as a lack of information has been a problem since the start as vid ever by this very discussion. There have been numerous discussions over the years about the collection, who owns it, what is to be done with it, how it should be managed etc etc. as well as questions raised by those who have donated or who reached out to us for a rescue. Knowing the potential legal issues that could arise if ever there was an issue, these are important things to not o ly keep in the discussion but accurately disseminate to the membership. The computers and artifacts are not the property of VCF MA, MARCH or even MAACE :-) :-) Functionality not withstanding. I’ve deleted the rest of my response. Tony Bogan > On Oct 29, 2024, at 12:54 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > <mime-attachment>

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Andrew Diller 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Mmmmm.... • MACRO • Mid-Atlantic Computing Retro Organization • MATRIX • Mid-Atlantic Technology Restoration & Information eXhibition • VACUUM • Vintage Artifacts & Computing Universal Museum -andy > On Oct 29, 2024, at 12:30 PM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > My vote is for MAACE (or MACE) > > Mid-Atlantic Apple Computer Enthusiasts > ;-) >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Andrew Diller 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

This is an interesting facet of the discussion that even I didn't think about- so first, thanks Tony for bringing it up. Second lets talk about this... Since VCFederation owns all the physical devices/artifacts/dollars in the warehouse and museum and bank accounts, and I'm sure it's VCFederation's 503 name/corp entity on all the agreements with InfoAge- to me that does two things: 1. Frees up the 'club' to name itself however it wants. There seem to be zero assets for VCF-MA or MARCH or whatever it renames itself. So go to town and make a new name. If that is what the membership is asking for, deliver it! 2. Does nothing to remove the confusion between VCFederation, the Festivals, the people that maintain stuff and have keys to access the artifacts, bank and museum. And that is ok. I've never felt like this was a bad thing- it causes conversation to be had, and people to talk about things and explain. That is a great thing to happen IMHO. So what if people have to explain these nuances? The fact that someone is asking is showing an interest and that motivation is worth more than some re-branding that resolves the confusion (at what level? People will still be confused no matter what you do). And this reflects on the comments from Ian and Ben re: joining and 'activities.' I've always felt the real club is what you make it. You make it by showing up and doing things- talking, helping, donating. Helping with forum, docent, cleaning etc etc etc. There are no hidden meetings (save the SteerCo- and not hidden just not open to general pop) or things going on- anyone can start something if they are willing to put in the time to do it. Not many orgs are like this. Cherish it. I gave a lot for a few years and have backed off due to other things to do, I will come back with more time at some point. I hope by then it hasn't turned into an empty club with paperwork and procedures on how everything must be done. To me the learning and exploring was 80% of the fun of the Federation at InfoAge. I hope this helped express an alternative view on things and encouraged people think about things before making a bunch of changes and the impact those changes may have. -andy PS: Case in point: i've enjoyed 2 VCFMW shows - they are incredible and fun and I don't know a friggin thing about the 'club' that runs them! > On Oct 29, 2024, at 8:39 AM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > From: Tony Bogan <thebogans(a)mac.com> > Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes > Date: October 29, 2024 at 8:39:20 AM EDT > To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > > > One thing that has yet to be brought up, at least that I spotted and I apologize if I missed it, is that part of the reason our group is called VCF is we manage and curate the Federations collection. None of the comparisons in Thomas G’s post are true comparisons because of that one (and in my mind significant) fact. > > The warehouse and museum contents do NOT belong to VCF-MA (or MARCH or whatever else you wish to call it) they belong > To VCF. > > That doesn’t mean our group couldn’t have a different name and continue curating VCFs collection of course, but it does set us apart from every and any other group that exists in this country. And for that reason, several others and one other major reason the name change was made to what it currently is. The other major reason? two VCF National Board members being part of VCF MA and in charge of its creation as a 501c and its daily and financial operations. > > Again, these points don’t preclude changing the name, but I believe this is important information for everyone to know and it does make our group unique and in the same > Ocean but not in the same boat (sorry, couldn’t help myself) as everyone else. > > Tony Bogan > >> On Oct 29, 2024, at 8:19 AM, Bill Degnan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >> >> You could bring a device that produces a mild electric shock, and when >> people ask you can shock them until they change the subject. I have a >> portable shock stick that I use in every day life when needed, really >> reduces the stress. >> >>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2024 at 9:44 AM Jeffrey Brace via vcf-midatlantic < >>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2024 at 18:11 Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < >>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I’m here. I thought VCF was chosen to compete with TCF. >>> >>> >>> It was definitely not to compete with TCF. I was part of the founding. TCF >>> is the Trenton Computer Festival and a once a year event started in 1976? >>> in NJ. Vintage Computer *Festival* was started in 1997 in California. >>> Vintage Computer *Federation* was started in 2016. I can’t recall the exact >>> reason, but likely to match the acronym VCF which was the *Festival *as >>> well as be global sounding and nature with Festivals around the world. >>> >>> The biggest problem as I see it is that people have trouble distinguishing >>> between the *Festival* and the *Federation*. I have to explain to many >>> people the difference between them. Vintage Computer Festival West and >>> Vintage Computer Festival East are run by the Vintage Computer Federation. >>> The other Festivals are independent. I have been to VCF West, VCF East, VCF >>> MidWest, VCF SouthWest, VCF Pacific Northwest, World of Commodore, Trenton >>> Computer Festival, HOPE, World Maker Faire and have had to explain the >>> differences at each event. There are even people that confuse Trenton >>> Computer Festival and Vintage Computer Festival. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Sent from: >>>> My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. >>>> >>>>> On Oct 27, 2024, at 5:33 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < >>>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The name MARCH was suggested because of its prior familiarity, and >>> that >>>>> there is already a BARCH for the Bay Area Retro Computing Hobbyists, >>>> which >>>>> is technically VCF Bay Area. >>>>> >>>>> BARCH and MARCH >>>>> >>>>> Another reason to stick with the naming convention is that it rolls off >>>> the >>>>> tongue better than saying a bunch of consonants, yet still maintaining >>> a >>>>> meaning as an acronym. >>>>> >>>>> Jeff Salzman >>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2024, 3:57 PM W2HX via vcf-midatlantic < >>>>>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> How about just VCFED-NJ people will generally know where New Jersey is >>>>>> located. If, someday, another chapter is opened in, say North >>> Carolina, >>>>>> they can just call themselves VCFED-NC >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 73 Eugene W2HX >>>>>> My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On >>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Joshua Abraham via vcf-midatlantic >>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2024 6:16 PM >>>>>> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> >>>>>> Cc: Joshua Abraham <jarvideo(a)gmail.com> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy >>>>>> Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my two cents, but I feel like Mid-Atlantic should be retired for >>> a >>>>>> more defined region name such as North East or New England to better >>>> define >>>>>> the center of the chapter's operations. >>>>>> >>>>>> The term "Mid- Atlantic" I have seen in other circles to be very >>> broadly >>>>>> defined at times from as far south as the Carolinas and as far north >>> as >>>> New >>>>>> York State. >>>>>> >>>>>> That being said I think there would be a benefit in selecting a name >>>> that >>>>>> better aligns with many of the other regional groups official or >>>> otherwise >>>>>> for the sake of consistency to the layman. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that technically Vcf does live within the mid Atlantic >>> boundary, >>>>>> but being on the outer edge, it may be best to focus on a more central >>>> name. >>>>>> >>>>>> Who knows, another group could pop up between new Jersey and Georgia >>> one >>>>>> day. May as well plan for the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, Joshua. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 25, 2024, 5:09 PM Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < >>>>>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thomas and to all >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are the items that you mentioned here (and others pending) going to >>> be >>>>>>> brought up at the Festivus meeting that we usually have in December >>>>>>> and VCF members allowed to vote on it?( or sooner) I am sure that you >>>>>>> and the others will keep us Informed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike Rosen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from: >>>>>>> My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Thomas G via vcf-midatlantic < >>>>>>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We in the steering committee have been considering making a number >>>>>>>> of changes to our operation, role, and focus for the past few weeks. >>>>>>>> We feel that our operation and communication has not been as >>>>>>>> effective as it >>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> be, given our stated goals, and are also considering certain changes >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> broader aspects of VCF Mid-Atlantic, such as membership, elections, >>>>>>>> and defining our role in relation to VCF National, largely in >>>>>>>> response to feedback from VCF Mid-Atlantic members. One of the >>>>>>>> changes we are considering, while largely inconsequential, is to >>>>>> revive the name 'MARCH' >>>>>>>> (short for 'Mid Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists') to replace the >>>>>>> clunky >>>>>>>> 'VCF Mid-Atlantic'. We are still in the deliberating process, but >>>>>>>> one change worth reporting has already occurred - Jeff Salzman has >>>>>>>> delegated the role of Steering Committee Chairman to Thomas >>>>>>>> Gilinsky. The >>>>>>> composition >>>>>>>> of the steering committee has not changed aside from this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Further information will be made available as we finalize our >>>>>> decisions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] vcf-midatlantic Digest, Vol 77, Issue 24
by Michael Thompson 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

David, We are having similar issues with the newly acquired Straight 8 at the RICM. It is part of the first 50 built so there are some differences from later systems. FlipChips were physically damaged and some missing, the fragile plastic pivots on about 20 front panel switches were broken, and it hasn't been powered on for 50 years. We fixed the switch pivots, the power supply, replaced the missing FlipChips and started debugging. We actually got it to the point where it would run programs, but it has now deteriorated to the point where we can't load a RIM paper tape. I am happy that no one is hounding us to get it back in production. We are getting lots of help from PDP-8 experts like you, so we will eventually get it demonstrable. Like you, we have found many failed diodes that don't seem to affect operation. Robust design? On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 8:03 AM <vcf-midatlantic-request(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2024 21:58:17 -0400 > From: David Gesswein <djg(a)pdp8online.com> > Subject: [vcf-midatlantic] VCF straight 8 work at workshop > > Worked on the VCF straight 8 that was acting up again. It would load the > first instruction to execute when you hit the start key but didn't load > the > next instruction after updating the program counter. Kept reexecuting the > first instruction. > > TLDR: Found some signals that weren't quite right but fixing them didn't > help. Found actual bad diode that was causing the failure but then > diagnostics found another fault. Whike working on that memory stopped > working > when machine on for a while. Ran out of time to determine why so still not > usable. -- Michael Thompson

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Tony Bogan 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

We are, or were created as one in 2015, an extension/chapter/whathaveyou of VCF National. We don’t necessarily need to remain that, but that is what we are at the moment. Tony Bogan > On Oct 29, 2024, at 8:39 AM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > <mime-attachment>

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Mac 84 Video about the Swap Meet
by Christian Liendo 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Terrifyingly Good Deals at the VCF Swap Meet! https://youtu.be/R9755DLjrfE?si=dTyRmdPewElB3XhH

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Jeffrey Brace 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

On Sun, Oct 27, 2024 at 18:11 Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > I’m here. I thought VCF was chosen to compete with TCF. It was definitely not to compete with TCF. I was part of the founding. TCF is the Trenton Computer Festival and a once a year event started in 1976? in NJ. Vintage Computer *Festival* was started in 1997 in California. Vintage Computer *Federation* was started in 2016. I can’t recall the exact reason, but likely to match the acronym VCF which was the *Festival *as well as be global sounding and nature with Festivals around the world. The biggest problem as I see it is that people have trouble distinguishing between the *Festival* and the *Federation*. I have to explain to many people the difference between them. Vintage Computer Festival West and Vintage Computer Festival East are run by the Vintage Computer Federation. The other Festivals are independent. I have been to VCF West, VCF East, VCF MidWest, VCF SouthWest, VCF Pacific Northwest, World of Commodore, Trenton Computer Festival, HOPE, World Maker Faire and have had to explain the differences at each event. There are even people that confuse Trenton Computer Festival and Vintage Computer Festival. > > Sent from: > My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > > > On Oct 27, 2024, at 5:33 PM, Jeff Salzman via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > The name MARCH was suggested because of its prior familiarity, and that > > there is already a BARCH for the Bay Area Retro Computing Hobbyists, > which > > is technically VCF Bay Area. > > > > BARCH and MARCH > > > > Another reason to stick with the naming convention is that it rolls off > the > > tongue better than saying a bunch of consonants, yet still maintaining a > > meaning as an acronym. > > > > Jeff Salzman > > > >> On Sun, Oct 27, 2024, 3:57 PM W2HX via vcf-midatlantic < > >> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> > >> How about just VCFED-NJ people will generally know where New Jersey is > >> located. If, someday, another chapter is opened in, say North Carolina, > >> they can just call themselves VCFED-NC > >> > >> > >> 73 Eugene W2HX > >> My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic-bounces(a)lists.vcfed.org> On > Behalf > >> Of Joshua Abraham via vcf-midatlantic > >> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2024 6:16 PM > >> To: vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> > >> Cc: Joshua Abraham <jarvideo(a)gmail.com> > >> Subject: Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy > >> Changes > >> > >> Just my two cents, but I feel like Mid-Atlantic should be retired for a > >> more defined region name such as North East or New England to better > define > >> the center of the chapter's operations. > >> > >> The term "Mid- Atlantic" I have seen in other circles to be very broadly > >> defined at times from as far south as the Carolinas and as far north as > New > >> York State. > >> > >> That being said I think there would be a benefit in selecting a name > that > >> better aligns with many of the other regional groups official or > otherwise > >> for the sake of consistency to the layman. > >> > >> I know that technically Vcf does live within the mid Atlantic boundary, > >> but being on the outer edge, it may be best to focus on a more central > name. > >> > >> Who knows, another group could pop up between new Jersey and Georgia one > >> day. May as well plan for the future. > >> > >> Respectfully, Joshua. > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 25, 2024, 5:09 PM Sentrytv via vcf-midatlantic < > >> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >> > >>> Thomas and to all > >>> > >>> Are the items that you mentioned here (and others pending) going to be > >>> brought up at the Festivus meeting that we usually have in December > >>> and VCF members allowed to vote on it?( or sooner) I am sure that you > >>> and the others will keep us Informed. > >>> > >>> Mike Rosen > >>> > >>> Sent from: > >>> My extremely complicated, hand held electronic device. > >>> > >>>> On Oct 25, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Thomas G via vcf-midatlantic < > >>> vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> We in the steering committee have been considering making a number > >>>> of changes to our operation, role, and focus for the past few weeks. > >>>> We feel that our operation and communication has not been as > >>>> effective as it > >>> could > >>>> be, given our stated goals, and are also considering certain changes > >>>> to > >>> the > >>>> broader aspects of VCF Mid-Atlantic, such as membership, elections, > >>>> and defining our role in relation to VCF National, largely in > >>>> response to feedback from VCF Mid-Atlantic members. One of the > >>>> changes we are considering, while largely inconsequential, is to > >> revive the name 'MARCH' > >>>> (short for 'Mid Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists') to replace the > >>> clunky > >>>> 'VCF Mid-Atlantic'. We are still in the deliberating process, but > >>>> one change worth reporting has already occurred - Jeff Salzman has > >>>> delegated the role of Steering Committee Chairman to Thomas > >>>> Gilinsky. The > >>> composition > >>>> of the steering committee has not changed aside from this. > >>>> > >>>> Further information will be made available as we finalize our > >> decisions. > >>> > >>> > >> > >

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MARCHing to the VCF of a different drummer ...
by Jeffrey Jonas 28 Oct '24

28 Oct '24

Having suffered the ambiguity of explaining VCF festival vs. federation vs VCF-mid-atlantic (formerly known as MARCH) I agree with the need for clarity. How about VCF-Jeff, VCF-Dave ... depending on the name majority :-) Be careful what you wish for, lest VCF-NJ become VCF region 1 like IEEE's "solution" to geography https://www.ieee.org/communities/regional-world-map.html

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VCF straight 8 work at workshop
by David Gesswein 28 Oct '24

28 Oct '24

Worked on the VCF straight 8 that was acting up again. It would load the first instruction to execute when you hit the start key but didn't load the next instruction after updating the program counter. Kept reexecuting the first instruction. TLDR: Found some signals that weren't quite right but fixing them didn't help. Found actual bad diode that was causing the failure but then diagnostics found another fault. Whike working on that memory stopped working when machine on for a while. Ran out of time to determine why so still not usable. Started browsing signals. PDP-8 signals are referred to as 0V and -3V. They actually are one diode drop below -3V. The F(1) signals which indicates the machine is in the fetch state was only going to about -1.8V. Normally this is caused by a leaky diode on logic being driven by the signal. Went through the schematics trying to find everywhere the signal went. Pulled 12 boards and tested diodes. Found and replaced one with high forward voltage but none measured low forward voltage indicating they are leaky. Reverse test would be better but components on the boards make some diodes read as leaky and hard to be sure you have gotten good connection through the surface oxides. Good diode and poor connection read the same on the meter. F(1) drives the light on the front panel through a drive transistor. Found that if I put a piece of tape on the edge connector to open that connection the signal level returned to proper. The manual doesn't have schematic for the front panel so need to figure that out. Much time spent and it didn't fix the problem. Will need to make measurements on my machine so I can compare with VCF and determine real cause of signal level issue. Suspect its not really the front panel but removing that load allowed signal to go to proper level. Looking at more signals found PA30 J output F set which sets the fetch flip flop also wasn't going as low as it should. I put a replacement S111 in and that fixed it. No change to symptoms. Later after I fixed the real problem I was going to swap the card back and see if it caused problems. I couldn't find a S111 card around. Wondered if my notes were a hallucination. Did find a R111 around but thought I had pulled a S111. The difference between the cards is the pull down resistors to -15V are changed from 7.5K on R111 to 3K on S111. This improves the fall time on the signal and gives more low drive (4mA vs 1.6 mA). The increased drive may be hiding a leaky diode. Don't have specifications for D-664 diode to know expected leakage. Typical small signals diodes are less than a microamp. I checked old pictures of the machine and PA30 had a R111. The early manual had R111 shown in the schematic but the card layout chart showed S111. The later manual had S111 in both locations. Next found spec cycle signal was at -1.4V. Checked cards signal goes to and found PA32 had a diode where the forward voltage measured .1V. Replaced diode and signal now had proper level and it started fetching instructions properly. Ran maindec-801-1-pm and it halted at 1062. This test was checking the proper return address got stored on an interrupt. Found the previous tests return address was at address 0. Single cycle stepping showed that it wrote the return address to location 4 instead of 0. The memory address register bit 9 didn't clear when it was supposed to. Pulled the R211 card and checked the diodes and found one with 1V forward drop and replaced it. Didn't fix it. At this point memory stopped working. All reads returned 0. Found if I turned the machine off for a while memory would operates for a while. Test still failed. Swapping in a spare R211 fixed the problem. The memory signals seemed to be operating normally when reads weren't working. The sense amplifier E pin didn't show a pulse. All memory locations and all bits don't work. All power supply voltages seemed reasonable and didn't change significantly between working and not working. Wasn't able to determine what the problem was before time to pack up.

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