- vcf-midatlantic - lists.vcfed.org

Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Bill Degnan 30 Oct '24

30 Oct '24

Originally we said "Mid-Atlantic", our loose focus was NY, NJ, PA, DE, NJ, MD, Washington DC, VA. But we excluded no one, and invited everyone to all events. Statistically, you're going to get people who live closer. We had events in State College PA, Trenton, Wilmington and wherever it was Bryan lived in South Jersey before we moved into the Wall NJ location. We would advertise on our yahoo mailing list and the volume of messages there was huge. I remember we had over 10,000 messages before we moved the mailing list to the current format. Lots of history there if anyone has this. Bill

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Thomas G 30 Oct '24

30 Oct '24

If we're talking legal ownership... a significant portion of the collection has been 'tainted' by artifacts owned by Infoage (namely the Grabbe collection, or a *portion of* the Grabbe collection) which have mingled with the MARCH/VCFed collection for years. Many details regarding this have only resurfaced recently (as in the past year, though several long-time members have always known some portion of the details) and it's been something of a massive headache to untangle, especially given the lack of a unified inventory for the past 19 years of acquisitions - I've found a few spreadsheets with no more than a few dozen items each, at most, which is nowhere near the thousands of individual artifacts which are now (or were in the past) within the warehouse/collection. It has taken me many, many hours of research, digging, and questioning to identify as much of the Grabbe collection as I have thus far - which could be anywhere between 15% and 75% of the total. There are other Infoage artifacts and collections mixed in - for instance, an entire "ready-to-run" Amdahl mainframe was donated to Infoage by AT&T in 1997. Aside from the 4705 communications processor, which was scrapped over a decade ago, much of the system is still present - but I have no way of knowing just *how* *much* of it is still here because I have no list of items, no photographs of the system as donated, and wide gaps in the admittedly threadbare timeline I have been able to put together for the machine's life since it was donated. Until recently, a number of long-time members believed the entire system to have been scrapped! Until all of these details can be worked out, it is potentially dangerous to assume that everything belongs to VCFed. We are a chapter of VCF, meaning that anything that we own is by extension owned by VCF anyways - but without a formal accessioning policy, the line between 'inventory' and 'collection' doesn't exist, and ownership can remain up in the air. Many recent acquisitions were collected using money from Mid-Atlantic's budget that was itself obtained directly through Mid-Atlantic's own fundraising - an argument can be made that, for such artifacts, VCFed may own them *through* us, but not directly, for whatever difference that even makes. These things need to be defined in writing, not in verbal agreements. Trying to hammer out a formal collections policy - which I have taken on as my personal responsibility - has been severely complicated by the fact that there is no simple answer to the question "what is the collection?" as I've described above, but I'm slowly getting there. And, frankly, the blaring priority as of late has been to address the physical maintenance of the warehouse itself, which we are unquestionably responsible for... alongside Infoage... and Wall township... and, apparently, the Army. Many strange revelations as of late. Feel free to contact me off-list (thomas.gilinsky(a)vcfed.org) if you'd like to directly clarify anything to me regarding how the details of the collection have been argued - I can always use the info! On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 1:06 PM Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Functionally doesn’t change the fact that VCF MA (did we suddenly decide > now it’s MARCH without any further discussion? I want MACE seriously > considered :-) does not own or have any rights to the collection. This was > made abundantly clear to those of us that created the 501c in the first > place almost 10 years ago. > > Additionally, what was originally intended doesn’t change the fact you > just stated. Namely that most of the money comes from National and has > since the start. > > Just trying to keep the discussion real and on point as a lack of > information has been a problem since the start as vid ever by this very > discussion. > > There have been numerous discussions over the years about the collection, > who owns it, what is to be done with it, how it should be managed etc etc. > as well as questions raised by those who have donated or who reached out to > us for a rescue. > > Knowing the potential legal issues that could arise if ever there was an > issue, these are important things to not o ly keep in the discussion but > accurately disseminate to the membership. > > The computers and artifacts are not the property of VCF MA, MARCH or even > MAACE :-) :-) > > Functionality not withstanding. > > I’ve deleted the rest of my response. > > Tony Bogan > > > > > On Oct 29, 2024, at 12:54 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > > > <mime-attachment> >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Jeff Salzman 30 Oct '24

30 Oct '24

December 14 and 15 at InfoAge On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 11:44 PM bob jeffway.com via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > Well, some good points! > Reminds me, when is Festivus?? I want to come this year! > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Ian Litchfield 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Regardless of what we call ourselves. The elephant in the room here is still apparent, and this is my opinion (I am sure many have seen it as well.) We have not really acted as a club in a long time. Besides Festivus, when is the last time we did anything club like? People show up to the Swap and leave immediately after many ignoring our post event workshops. The same 5 or so people show up to workshops monthly, barring the one right before VCF East which always has a higher turnout. Very few newcomers appear to stick around, and if they do they just lurk. How many are registered in the list again? Hell it took me about a year to figure out how to even “join” the club because no information was out about how to get involved. I was told to talk to someone and wait for a phone call, which took over 6 months to come in. >From what I have gathered, we have always regarded it as “If you are on the list, you are in” but that is a terrible way, especially for an organization that has grown to our size, as people have put it to keep a member log. We want to grow the local community here, do some outreach, fund fixing the warehouse to protect our artifacts, and eventually expand our museum and assist the other local groups on campus at InfoAge. All of which requires having an active and informed local membership. We are not renaming the organization here, not even the list. Specifically it is proposed to rename and restructure the local chapter that handles the local events, local fund raising, local museum, local warehouse, local artifacts, local workshops, etc.. Did I mention Local? -Ian L. On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 09:04 Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > We are, or were created as one in 2015, an extension/chapter/whathaveyou > of VCF National. > > We don’t necessarily need to remain that, but that is what we are at the > moment. > > Tony Bogan > > > > On Oct 29, 2024, at 8:39 AM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < > vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > > > > <mime-attachment> >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by John Heritage 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Central Region Old Timer Computer Hobbyists? On Tue, Oct 29, 2024, 1:40 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > On 10/29/2024 12:14 PM, Andrew Diller wrote: > > I read this and also thought "he's asking for an announcement only list" > -- which does not exist. But could be created (but I'm guessing it would be > occasionally forgotten about). > > Sorry, that was not my intent. I actually like the discussion, at least > some of the time, since I work in other related groups and seeing how > you all process things helps other groups. And, yes, the announce list > would suffer from being yet another thing to deal with. > > No, just wanted to make sure it was OK to be on here and if it's OK, > noting that those like me necessarily can only watch and add bit of > value from afar, please don't hate that we didn't sign up to volunteer > at all the cool things you do. > > Jim > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Chris Fala 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Tony makes a good point, communication seems to be the actual issue. And I agree with his MACE suggestion, Mid Atlantic Commodore Enthusiasts! On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 12:30 PM Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > As mentioned in my first response, I’m fine with whatever the group wants, > I don’t have any feelings either way. > My goal was to point out the pertinent facts revolving around the > discussion. > > Forgetting all the conversations I’ve had with people over the years, just > the responses in this thread show me that the perceived “confusion” > revolves far more around how information is disseminated to the public and > how things are organized as opposed to what the group is called. > > Changing the name won’t fix that, but at the same time changing the name > is not a problem or something I like or dislike. It is what it is. > > My vote is for MAACE (or MACE) > > Mid-Atlantic Apple Computer Enthusiasts > ;-)

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Jeff Salzman 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Seems the definition of "local" needs to be addressed. (And I'm betting as I type this, someone else is, or has already defined the term.) Local, in the context of this long-running faction of an organization is loosely defined as an area as big as it needs to be for many to reasonably and regularly attend the organization's events. Special events like VCF-East have certainly been an exception to that, but VCF-E is a Vintage Computer Federation event, run by volunteers and members of the local organization in Wall Township, NJ. It was already discussed by many, and nearly officially by Tony B., that Mid-Atlantic covers a VERY large swath on the Eastern seaboard and nearby inland states. Unless anybody has an issue with the use of "local" to define that, then let's stick with using the term local as having such a broad reference. While we won't kick anybody from Nebraska away who comes to one of our Workshops or Festivus, or a future hackathon, that Nebraskan would probably not make regular trips to Wall Township, NJ on a near monthly basis. As such, we probably wouldn't consider Nebraska "local", but they are more than welcome to join the group and/or mailing list if they wish. So Bill, you ARE local in the broadest sensible sense of the term. You're certainly far more local to this area than to the sister group in California's Bay Area. I live further from Wall Township, NJ than you, but I would call MARCH (sticking with that name for now) my local retro computer club. We have members in Virginia who think the same way. As for the same 7 people. That's just because those people choose on their own to attend these events on a regular basis, or even a volunteer, or docent. It is not a defining requirement for membership and never has been. Any group or organization will have its "regular" members, but as far as attendance at our regular Workshop events, the invitation is always there. The simple rules are: - Sign up on the Google Sheet that's sent via announcement to this message list - Pay the daily Workshop fee of $15 - Understand that attendees will not (always) fix your stuff for you, but many help as much as they can. This is an opportunity to learn how to restore your own stuff. - Be kind and courteous - ENJOY YOURSELF! - Clean up before you leave As "MARCH" defines more suitable ways to get the word out to the retro hobbyist about these regular events, there is hope that more people would learn about our volunteer opportunities, and not feel that they are not welcome to participate in anything "MARCH" does. Jeff Salzman On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 1:38 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > On 10/29/2024 12:08 PM, David Gesswein via vcf-midatlantic wrote: > > My point was more of "should folks like myself be on the list at all, > since we are not local"? I asked because one of the most recent list > emails was about "the same 7 people come to events, few help out..." and > I think there was an implication that the list members should be take a > more active role in the org. I'd love to assist, and I do for other > VCF-like orgs closer to home, but I can't help be a docent or set up for > the swap meet, and neither can the others on the list who are far > flung. That was my intent. > > Jim > > >

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Andrew Diller 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

Nice glue you got there. The United Federation of Plants meets every 3d Wednesday at the Morris Horticultural Society back deck, on Pine Ridge. -andy https://imgur.com/a/on5tjuH > On Oct 29, 2024, at 1:45 PM, Tony Bogan via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > logo of the United Federation of Plants,

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Tony Bogan 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

I’d like to bring this conversation back to what Christian mentioned earlier about the logo…… I’m having trouble finding for comparison the logo of the United Federation of Plants, but im interested in learning more about them!!! (Sorry, at drydock and this is my only break time today and I’m getting loopy from the paint fumes) Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue. Tony Bogan > On Oct 29, 2024, at 1:40 PM, RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic <vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > > > <mime-attachment>

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Re: [vcf-midatlantic] Announcement: Administrative and Policy Changes
by Dean Notarnicola 29 Oct '24

29 Oct '24

All are welcome on the list, regardless of level of participation. We are better together. On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 1:39 PM RETRO Innovations via vcf-midatlantic < vcf-midatlantic(a)lists.vcfed.org> wrote: > On 10/29/2024 12:14 PM, Andrew Diller wrote: > > I read this and also thought "he's asking for an announcement only list" > -- which does not exist. But could be created (but I'm guessing it would be > occasionally forgotten about). > > Sorry, that was not my intent. I actually like the discussion, at least > some of the time, since I work in other related groups and seeing how > you all process things helps other groups. And, yes, the announce list > would suffer from being yet another thing to deal with. > > No, just wanted to make sure it was OK to be on here and if it's OK, > noting that those like me necessarily can only watch and add bit of > value from afar, please don't hate that we didn't sign up to volunteer > at all the cool things you do. > > Jim > >

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